Thoughts on the Season + What's Next

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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#61 » by reapaman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:53 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:Q: If you're DL, and you have a choice between:
1)Blowing last of salary ($12M) on Clarkson; or
2) Bobby Portis ($7-9M), and one or two vet backups (could be from my list above),
which would you choose?

Why not both? We can do #1 and then do all of #2 with the exceptions since were in between the cap and the tax line.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#62 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:08 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:The Nuggets beat us without Barton and they lacked Harris for several games too so it's not like we were the only ones missing players. And we did manage a 3-1 lead without Bojan, so I don't think missing him is why we lost. Also, our biggest problem was on defense, where he wouldn't have helped that much. Our offense was fine.


And this version of DEN just beat the title favorites. This season is wide open. Jazz missed their greatest opportunity to compete for a championship. Even without Bogey, you can't say this team couldn't compete with the best.

This was 10000% the year to go all in...Just major failure on Conley and major fail on the prioritizing winning. The Jazz won't have this opportunity again for decades. The combination of the Warriors dynasty ending, "green" superteams like the Clippers, and the cap situation where our two best players cost less than one max will not happen again.

Good on DEN for capitalizing, massive blown opportunity for UTA.

You have consistently held the position that this season would be wide open, at least since the bubble. Every sport is a game of inches or seconds, and the Jazz (as well as the Clippers) lost their series by a thin margin. For the Jazz, it could have been the difference of an odd-ball 8 second violation or just one more Jamal Murray stop. If they would have had Bogey, I think it would have made a big difference. Conley, with the exception of game 7, showed up in the playoffs. The Jazz might have the worst bench in the NBA, which is another factor. Next season could be another odd ball season with Covid and a weird time frame, bubbles, teams over-reacting to their playoff losses, etc.


I’ve really felt this way since KD got injured in last year’s playoffs. I think we were all so used to the Warriors dominance that we forgot what a normal league was like. The combo of no super teams and Mitchell+Gobert costing less than one max combine was truly a great window.

I suppose we have one more year of this, but Conley still isn’t the right guy and I’m not sure we have the right coaching/chemistry. I don’t think we need to hit on another Mitchell/Gobert to keep up with the West next season...but we probably need to hit on a Bogey level player who is good at all the things Bogey isn’t great at.

IMO, you have to move on from Conley/Bogey. There’s just too much overlap in guys who want to dribble/shoot the ball every time they touch it. We need to add some size, athleticism, and defense on the perimeter.

Obviously you can try to address this without trading one of those guys...but it’s going to be hard to hit on a guy using the MLE. That might just be what needs to happen though.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#63 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:12 pm

reapaman wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Q: If you're DL, and you have a choice between:
1)Blowing last of salary ($12M) on Clarkson; or
2) Bobby Portis ($7-9M), and one or two vet backups (could be from my list above),
which would you choose?

Why not both? We can do #1 and then do all of #2 with the exceptions since were in between the cap and the tax line.


SoCal is right about this. I highly doubt the Jazz are going to be willing to be a tax team. Clarkson would take us to the tax line. From there we could use the tax paying MLE if we want...but I don’t think we’re willing to spend.

In all likelihood, Clarkson signs for around $12M. We’re right at the tax but not above it, and that’s all we do this summer.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#64 » by vryadli » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:24 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
vryadli wrote:OK, all that posts on this thread convinced me that Jazz has to trade Gobert the sooner the better. For what? I don't think it is important at all. For the next 5-7 years spent in the bottom of the league it will hardly matter. Utah will enjoy trades and spectacular DM offense as mach as Lakers did Kobe-years after Shaq trade.

They won the championship twice post-Shaq.


Sure. As soon as SLC will catch LA as big market destination for FA, they will be able to build championship team using Lakers methods. Utah is a great place with strong working ethics, so I think it can be done in something like 50-70 years.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#65 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:54 am

vryadli wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
vryadli wrote:OK, all that posts on this thread convinced me that Jazz has to trade Gobert the sooner the better. For what? I don't think it is important at all. For the next 5-7 years spent in the bottom of the league it will hardly matter. Utah will enjoy trades and spectacular DM offense as mach as Lakers did Kobe-years after Shaq trade.

They won the championship twice post-Shaq.


Sure. As soon as SLC will catch LA as big market destination for FA, they will be able to build championship team using Lakers methods. Utah is a great place with strong working ethics, so I think it can be done in something like 50-70 years.

What made the Lakers win those championships had less to do with them being a large market and more about them able to trade for Pau Gasol.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#66 » by vryadli » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:27 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
vryadli wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:They won the championship twice post-Shaq.


Sure. As soon as SLC will catch LA as big market destination for FA, they will be able to build championship team using Lakers methods. Utah is a great place with strong working ethics, so I think it can be done in something like 50-70 years.

What made the Lakers win those championships had less to do with them being a large market and more about them able to trade for Pau Gasol.


Yes, exactly, Trading for Paw. And I'm not sure that Pau acquisition has nothing to do with them being the biggest market in the planet. But I'm sure being BM helped them to keep Kobe during the years of irrelevancy. That's something what SA and NO wasn't able to do with Kahwi and Davis.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#67 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:39 pm

vryadli wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
vryadli wrote:
Sure. As soon as SLC will catch LA as big market destination for FA, they will be able to build championship team using Lakers methods. Utah is a great place with strong working ethics, so I think it can be done in something like 50-70 years.

What made the Lakers win those championships had less to do with them being a large market and more about them able to trade for Pau Gasol.


Yes, exactly, Trading for Paw. And I'm not sure that Pau acquisition has nothing to do with them being the biggest market in the planet. But I'm sure being BM helped them to keep Kobe during the years of irrelevancy. That's something what SA and NO wasn't able to do with Kahwi and Davis.

I don't think those are good examples. The Pelicans were never relevant even with Davis. He spent a lot of time there and they never made it anywhere so it's not like he left because it wasn't a big market as much as it was that the franchise was never able to build a good enough team around him.

As for Kawhi, he didn't leave because of big market issues. He left because a rift was created between him and the coaching\medical\management staff regarding how to handle his injury in his final season with the team. A season before that they won 61 games with him, so they managed to transition from Duncan pretty well while he was still with the team and even make it to the WCF.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#68 » by Wolverine » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:04 am

Conley for the Clippers Trio?
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#69 » by Crunch 99 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:34 pm

Wolverine wrote:Conley for the Clippers Trio?


Who is Trio?
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#70 » by Topofthekey » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:36 am

Assuming the Pacers are interested, would the Jazz do a Domantas Sabonis-Rudy Gobert swap?

Would the Jazz add? What would Jazz be willing to add to make the swap happen?
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#71 » by red4hf » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:22 am

Topofthekey wrote:Assuming the Pacers are interested, would the Jazz do a Domantas Sabonis-Rudy Gobert swap?

Would the Jazz add? What would Jazz be willing to add to make the swap happen?


Gobert is the better player, so the Jazz wouldn't be adding anything......
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#72 » by Topofthekey » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:14 pm

red4hf wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Assuming the Pacers are interested, would the Jazz do a Domantas Sabonis-Rudy Gobert swap?

Would the Jazz add? What would Jazz be willing to add to make the swap happen?


Gobert is the better player, so the Jazz wouldn't be adding anything......

Interesting. I thought that with Gobert being older, and his upcoming free agency, Sabonis would be the more valuable player

Also the Gobert and Mitchell thing. It looks like they've put it past them, but who knows
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#73 » by red4hf » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:43 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
red4hf wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Assuming the Pacers are interested, would the Jazz do a Domantas Sabonis-Rudy Gobert swap?

Would the Jazz add? What would Jazz be willing to add to make the swap happen?


Gobert is the better player, so the Jazz wouldn't be adding anything......

Interesting. I thought that with Gobert being older, and his upcoming free agency, Sabonis would be the more valuable player

Also the Gobert and Mitchell thing. It looks like they've put it past them, but who knows


Gobert's contract situation certainly factors into the equation, but not enough that the Jazz would need to add incentives..... Gobert is just that much of a difference maker on the court......
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#74 » by MTJazzv3 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:40 pm

I think the Jazz hands are tied at the moment - it really comes down to where Mitchell and Rudy stand on extensions and whether in their heart of hearts see each other playing together well into the future. (My guess is no). I can see Mitchell accepting a 3-year deal but wouldn't be at all surprised if Rudy is ready to move on and just plays out his contract. Which means pretty much rolling out the same team next year, Rudy playing for a fat deal and/or getting traded. The Jazz would still be a good team, just not a contending team next year. A post-Conley and Gobert world could be really interesting the following season. Re-sign Clarkson for sure. The future of this team is building around DM running the point and loading up on young multi-position wings. The center position is overrated in todays league (unless one has a multi-tool AD or Joker).
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#75 » by GobertReport » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:23 pm

MTJazzv3 wrote:I think the Jazz hands are tied at the moment - it really comes down to where Mitchell and Rudy stand on extensions and whether in their heart of hearts see each other playing together well into the future. (My guess is no). I can see Mitchell accepting a 3-year deal but wouldn't be at all surprised if Rudy is ready to move on and just plays out his contract. Which means pretty much rolling out the same team next year, Rudy playing for a fat deal and/or getting traded. The Jazz would still be a good team, just not a contending team next year. A post-Conley and Gobert world could be really interesting the following season. Re-sign Clarkson for sure. The future of this team is building around DM running the point and loading up on young multi-position wings. The center position is overrated in todays league (unless one has a multi-tool AD or Joker).


If Gobert doesn’t sign an extension you trade him immediately, no more losing value for flexibility.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#76 » by GobertReport » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:30 pm

I think if Gobert doesn’t sign an extension you trade for slightly overpaid but maybe underutilized player that can add to the team. I also think we should offer Conley a very team friendly deal and if declines then trade him for another slightly overpaid and underutilized player. Key targets: Randle, Harris, Aaron Gordon, Brooklyn’s young players, Bam Adebayo (if the Heat actually lose in the conference finals I see Gobert as an upgrade), Pascal Siakam, and maybe one or two others.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#77 » by Wolverine » Yesterday 5:01 am

Is Blake Griffin healthy &/or available? Something around Conley for Griffen makes sence.
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