Thoughts on the Season + What's Next

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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#21 » by babyjax13 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:33 am

GobertReport wrote:
red4hf wrote:
GobertReport wrote:What the Jazz need to do this off season is what they should have done instead is signing Conley, get a sweet shooting 4 who can play decent D. I think we need to hit up the Knicks or Orlando this off season.


Who on the Knicks or Magic fits that bill?


Randle from the Knicks. A A Ron from the Magic.


Randle is a putrid defender who can't shoot. Gordon makes sense, though.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#22 » by babyjax13 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 7:06 am

I'm interested to see what we do. Part of me thinks that there are still issues with Rudy and the rest of the team, he still got pouty and angsty on occasion in the playoffs and during bubble play. If that's the case, I don't mind seeing him gone. But, if we do that, I think we should tell Mitchell "we are giving you the keys to this team, but we are going to trade for younger pieces to develop around you." Who would be available for trade? I'd imagine that Joe, Bojan, and Royce would all be kept, but I wouldn't mind Royce and/or Bojan being traded. Conley I'd like to see gone to open up the point guard position for Mitchell either way, I think that is the thing we've learned, Mitchell isn't a shooting guard.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#23 » by vryadli » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:10 am

I would find out why overachieving spirit, defense and pride disappeared. (They don't even speak about team winning or team ring, just "I want win it all" ). Then I would try to recover it - if it's not too late. If it is too late - nothing matters.

OK, unless very modest, very humble and very team oriented basketball genius - at least of Tim Dunkan level am mode (even Curry level may be not enough for small market) drops in by incredible luck AND some genius coach happens to be at the helm at that time...
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#24 » by vryadli » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:36 am

And one more thing surprises me in recent history (one is strange belief in power of shuffling "pieces" in Minnesota Phoenix style) :

There were a lot of talk about keeping DWill happy... about keeping GH happy ... now there some talk about keeping DM happy...

But, I don't remember talks about keeping Gobert happy. Yes, most people recognize his importance but that's all. He just did his work day in day out or else trade him .

He showed tons team loyalty and fighting spirit for number of years, he definitely had a dream of winning The Ring WIITH JAZZ - and got practically nothing in return. No loyalty whatsoever. OK, may be he don't need spotlight, but currently the situation is just one step short of neglect. And such treatment of loyal star for small market team is straight and fast way to decades of complete irrelevance. And now Jazz is almost there.

No wonder that he lost quite a bit of fire. I don't think he is as wise as Dunkan and is treated much worse.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#25 » by Tom349 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 9:31 am

We will rightly run back the same team with a couple of handy additions via the Mid Level exception and maybe Bi annual exception and hopefully a decent first rounder prospect. The data in regard to line ups suggested that a combination of our best 6 players were up there with the very best in NET rating, the issue being the lack of depth that ruined all the good work the starters did. We were limited to what we could do last year in terms of improving the end of the roster and while Ed and Green didn't work out and were worse than we could have imagined we should be able to do a lot more this off season.

Should also hopefully see a lot more improvement from Oni, Brantley, Morgan and Tucker who I believed were under-utilised this season and should have been given more opportunity to develop. Defensively they all have what it takes to thrive in this league just need to work out how they fit on offense.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#26 » by red4hf » Thu Sep 3, 2020 11:11 am

GobertReport wrote:
red4hf wrote:
GobertReport wrote:What the Jazz need to do this off season is what they should have done instead is signing Conley, get a sweet shooting 4 who can play decent D. I think we need to hit up the Knicks or Orlando this off season.


Who on the Knicks or Magic fits that bill?


Randle from the Knicks. A A Ron from the Magic.


Randle shot 28% from three last year and is not anything approaching a good defender....... He might look better playing next to Gobert, but that's only because of Gobert......

Gordon shot 31%...... His other numbers don't say he's a good defender...... With Isaac's injury Magic are probably not dealing Gordon anyway......
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#27 » by wco81 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 5:47 pm

vryadli wrote:And one more thing surprises me in recent history (one is strange belief in power of shuffling "pieces" in Minnesota Phoenix style) :

There were a lot of talk about keeping DWill happy... about keeping GH happy ... now there some talk about keeping DM happy...

But, I don't remember talks about keeping Gobert happy. Yes, most people recognize his importance but that's all. He just did his work day in day out or else trade him .

He showed tons team loyalty and fighting spirit for number of years, he definitely had a dream of winning The Ring WIITH JAZZ - and got practically nothing in return. No loyalty whatsoever. OK, may be he don't need spotlight, but currently the situation is just one step short of neglect. And such treatment of loyal star for small market team is straight and fast way to decades of complete irrelevance. And now Jazz is almost there.

No wonder that he lost quite a bit of fire. I don't think he is as wise as Dunkan and is treated much worse.


The Ringer NBA podcast, someone mentioned that Rudy is often pissed when he's open and not getting the ball.

They also said that as great as he is, he can be rendered less effective in the playoffs by 5-out lineups -- that is there are 5 players who are good enough 3 point threats that he has to be pulled out of the paint.

Donovan just shot 53/51.6/94.8 in this series (career wise 44/35.5/82.4). Yet the Jazz still lost. Maybe he takes another step and becomes much more efficient, maybe 47/39/85.

But the Jazz need more talent.

I don't think the Jazz will get a FRP for Ingles as someone suggested.

Barring a one-sided trade, Jazz have to improve through the draft. They have to find players who over perform expectations like Rudy (#27) and Mitchell (#13).

Draft can be a crapshoot as the Jazz found with Exum (#5).

In a way, Jazz have been both lucky and unlucky, kind of like the Blazers, another team seemingly caught in a cycle of mostly first or second round exits.

Blazers seemed headed to be a lottery team until Lillard started balling out since his rookie year. So while they've been in the playoffs most of his career, they've been unable to break out of the tread mill cycle.

Similarly, prospects for the Jazz looked bleak after Hayward left but Mitchell obviously kept them in the playoffs.

Would either of these teams be better off if for instance they were in the lottery for 2 or 3 seasons? Doesn't mean they'd be back in the playoffs yet but maybe they'd have more young talent than they do now?

Still the key seems to be the ability to hit every draft pick, even those in the mid first round. That is unless you're the Lakers which keep attracting the best free agents or soon to be free agents.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#28 » by TNJazz » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:32 am

Frustrating season overall. Extremely high expectations after the off season signings of 4 pretty significant signings. Was very happy when they waived Green, team seems to respond ...briefly.

Bringing in Clarkson was the highlight of the season for me. Loved his energy, enthusiasm and ability to create. I also enjoyed listening to him talk about how much he enjoyed being coached by Q. Continually stated that Q made him better. I did really wonder why he was slipping so much and losing his footing continually in this series?

Conley was a huge disappointment. Can't stand to continually hear how he is feeling more like he understands the team. WTF, He's a Pro, that's the definition of a Pro, understanding what is needed and doing it, not continually stating that I think I might have found the answer.

Love Bojan, his absence was the killer for the series loss. Needed someone who could step on a throat or two when they were down and not give them the chance to get it going...

I like Joe, but he frustrated me with his inconsistency. Shoot it more!!! quit complaining after ever call to the refs, just shoot and talk later...

Gobert, absolutely love his heart and passion. he's a competitor and has a strong voice. Wish others on the team gave him the respect he deserves. he's not the offensive juggernaut of the team, but he has made significant strides and is very athletic with Euro steps and finger rolls being added to his arsenal. He is the best all around center this team has ever had.

DM, frustrating bc it's hard to remember how young he is when he is so confident and intelligent. Seems much more mature than a 23 year old and his physical abilities are incredible. I hope TNT will listen to the Chuckster and show more Jazz games so DM can get more national attention while still being able to stay with this team. He was sensational this series and he is mentally tough and willies this as a way to get better. This is the best trait Gobert has that others should follow, being stronger than the detractors and proving that others make mistakes when they count Himont. DM has this too.

Significant upgrades are needed with the bench, obviously. Niang is a defensive hole and needs to become more than just a 3 point shooter.

Last statement about game 7. We missed 3 buzzer beaters with good looks in that game, Clarkson missed two (half and 3d quarter I believe) and of course the Conley miss. If Clarkson hits his two, we are up by 1 going into the 4th quarter, UGH! 30+ million for a starting point who goes 1-12 on a game 7, Thats a low point.

Rambling is over.

Moved this post from the other, same-titled thread. I have no idea how the same thread was opened twice by me. I'm deleting the other thread that now has no posts in it.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#29 » by mudsak » Fri Sep 4, 2020 8:07 pm

I think they need to move Gobert.

The big question is whether or not Mitchell will actually be open to keep playing for the Jazz into the future. I think there's a good chance Mitchell already has his eye's set on the exit. He knows he can basically choose anywhere at this point. He will be a highly sought after player if he chooses to test FA. The future needs to look more clear, and extremely enticing if the Jazz have any real hopes of convincing him to stay.

I think another key piece that people aren't thinking much about is Clarkson. He's a big deal for this team imo. I'm not that confident he's anything more than a rental, but it would be awesome if we can resign him. He's got championship team caliber 6th man written all over him. Him staying probably bodes well for Mitchell staying too.

All that said...

Ideal scenario: Retain Mitchell/Clarkson. Move Gobert for the best offer available, and re-tool the team. Entertain moving Conley if the right deal is available, but I think that's much less likely to happen just because of his contract. Try to bolster the 3 and 4 position in the re-tooling.

Scenario 2: Mitchell doesn't re-sign and you need to start thinking about tearing the whole thing down. We probably retain Gobert to build around him in this scenario, but he's not a franchise cornerstone that's going to get this team past round 2 imo. I think if Mitchell is gone this team is toast.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#30 » by eLo » Sat Sep 5, 2020 1:31 am

its "funny" i remember when Hay was gonne and that Gob hype was huge, all that "Loyalty" etc. and now when dude is absolute top on his position, absolute difference maker, some want to throw him under the train ... i dont know is this more sad or pathetic
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#31 » by DelaneyRudd » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:27 pm

The two players I feel under performed are Conley and Ingles, both of whom I love as team guys so I don't know what kind of wholesale changes I'd advocate. It's easy to say that losing Bogey in the playoffs was key and it was. I don't see any major trades that rearrange things this off-season. If things fall flat next season looking at a blockbuster trade midseason would be something to look for. Jazz should sign their own players for market value and then be traders. That's how you should work if you can't get the top Free Agents.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#32 » by bkohler » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:35 am

eLo wrote:its "funny" i remember when Hay was gonne and that Gob hype was huge, all that "Loyalty" etc. and now when dude is absolute top on his position, absolute difference maker, some want to throw him under the train ... i dont know is this more sad or pathetic


I think truthfully it's just the fan base being still shell shocked from the Hayward exit. I don't think anyone wants to see Gobert leave but the realization that he could leave in a year for nothing is a scary proposition especially when he's probably not worth the super max that he'll undoubtedly ask for.

I don't know a single Jazz fan that wouldn't be thrilled to have Gobert finish out his career in Utah, but the Jazz can't build a contender with Gobert making nearly 50M. (I'm not sure anyone can, all of the supermax deals have been disastrous).
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#33 » by KqWIN » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:05 pm

MIA is in the ECF, DEN is taking LAC to 7...I knew that this season would be more wide open than ever. The KD Warriors are no more, there isn't one team that's so dominant that no one else has a chance. This was UTA's year to compete. Really just reinforces my beliefs about everything. This was the best chance for the Jazz to compete/win a championship for a very long time. I'm talking decades...but they completely failed with the Conley trade and chemistry issues. Who knows, maybe if we have Bogey it still wouldn't have mattered and we're the one's pushing/beating LAC in a series. Oh well...this franchise is toast.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#34 » by Inigo Montoya » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:42 am

The Nuggets beat us without Barton and they lacked Harris for several games too so it's not like we were the only ones missing players. And we did manage a 3-1 lead without Bojan, so I don't think missing him is why we lost. Also, our biggest problem was on defense, where he wouldn't have helped that much. Our offense was fine.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#35 » by GobertReport » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:55 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:The Nuggets beat us without Barton and they lacked Harris for several games too so it's not like we were the only ones missing players. And we did manage a 3-1 lead without Bojan, so I don't think missing him is why we lost. Also, our biggest problem was on defense, where he wouldn't have helped that much. Our offense was fine.


I think we are missing a player with that win it all costs son of a bitch mindset, a guy like Chris Paul or Jimmy Butler.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#36 » by Inigo Montoya » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:44 pm

GobertReport wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:The Nuggets beat us without Barton and they lacked Harris for several games too so it's not like we were the only ones missing players. And we did manage a 3-1 lead without Bojan, so I don't think missing him is why we lost. Also, our biggest problem was on defense, where he wouldn't have helped that much. Our offense was fine.


I think we are missing a player with that win it all costs son of a bitch mindset, a guy like Chris Paul or Jimmy Butler.

Jimmy Butler would have been so good on this team.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#37 » by GobertReport » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:52 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:The Nuggets beat us without Barton and they lacked Harris for several games too so it's not like we were the only ones missing players. And we did manage a 3-1 lead without Bojan, so I don't think missing him is why we lost. Also, our biggest problem was on defense, where he wouldn't have helped that much. Our offense was fine.


I think we are missing a player with that win it all costs son of a bitch mindset, a guy like Chris Paul or Jimmy Butler.

Jimmy Butler would have been so good on this team.


Yep.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#38 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:39 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:The Nuggets beat us without Barton and they lacked Harris for several games too so it's not like we were the only ones missing players. And we did manage a 3-1 lead without Bojan, so I don't think missing him is why we lost. Also, our biggest problem was on defense, where he wouldn't have helped that much. Our offense was fine.


And this version of DEN just beat the title favorites. This season is wide open. Jazz missed their greatest opportunity to compete for a championship. Even without Bogey, you can't say this team couldn't compete with the best.

This was 10000% the year to go all in...Just major failure on Conley and major fail on the prioritizing winning. The Jazz won't have this opportunity again for decades. The combination of the Warriors dynasty ending, "green" superteams like the Clippers, and the cap situation where our two best players cost less than one max will not happen again.

Good on DEN for capitalizing, massive blown opportunity for UTA.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#39 » by reapaman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:09 pm

1) Try to Resign Mitchell at all cost, don't play with him.
2) Resign Jordan Clarkson even if its an overpay.
3) Draft BPA with 1st round pick (screw need and fit, go with BPA) and keep the player.
4) Wait out the free agent market. Don't sign old guys. Prioritize guys who can play wing and can shoot the three. You can work out your forward positions as the season goes on.
5) I didn't mention Gobert, Conley and Ingles because DL pretty much made his bed with them, Its too late to do anything worthwhile with them. The other guys on the team don't matter.
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Re: Thoughts on the Season + What's Next 

Post#40 » by 100proof » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 pm

What would Utah look to get in a trade for Gobert.

I personally feel that the Celtics would be a perfect fit for Rudy and turn the team into the defensive equivalent of the offense the GSW created.

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