Next contracts

Moderators: DelaneyRudd, FJS, Inigo Montoya

User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,190
And1: 6,032
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Next contracts 

Post#21 » by babyjax13 » Mon Oct 5, 2020 4:39 am

red4hf wrote:Nobody is giving Gobert that kind of money....... Not us, not anyone else......

You don't think someone will offer him the max?
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,792
And1: 5,698
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Next contracts 

Post#22 » by Inigo Montoya » Mon Oct 5, 2020 9:42 am

If no one is giving Gobert that kind of money, then he has very little incentive to pick Utah. He could go anywhere and get paid the same amount (say, a regular max contract). The Jazz's supposed advantage is that they can offer him more than other teams. If they don't, they forgo the only advantage they have. They also risk insulting Gobert by not offering him more than the max. If you're Gobert, why should you stay in a small market team in Utah that's been treadmilling for years and will continue to treadmill, and not go to, say, Miami, who can give him a the same max contract the Jazz can (if they're not willing to give him the super-max) and just made the NBA Finals?
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 14,899
And1: 5,651
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Next contracts 

Post#23 » by KqWIN » Mon Oct 5, 2020 4:07 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it is more likely that Gobert signs a contract under the normal max than it is that he signs the full super max. I'm expect him to sign something the "normal" max with the Jazz.

There isn't a market for big men. Why would Gobert not sign with Miami? Because Miami wouldn't want to sign him because they have Bam. As great as Gobert is, there are a limited amount of spots for C's in the league.
SoCalJazzFan
Analyst
Posts: 3,454
And1: 664
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: Next contracts 

Post#24 » by SoCalJazzFan » Mon Oct 5, 2020 4:54 pm

To date, only four players have signed supermax contract extensions: Stephen Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook and John Wall. Clearly, only two of those have worked out.

There is not one center making more than $29M/yr right now, and only 11 are paid more than $19M/yr. I would say that most of the top 11 contracts (even the top 20) are viewed as bad contracts (top 4 highest are Love, Vucevic, Horford, Drummond). https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/center/

It is true that if the Jazz aren't willing to pay Gobert the supermax, he could leave. However, they will hopefully be able to appease him by making him the highest paid center and perhaps as highly paid as DM. As KQwin said, there are few teams needing a starting center and the league is drifting to versatile big men. Even this lower contract could be viewed as a bad contract over time.
red4hf
Jazz Forum GTS Champion 2019-2020
Posts: 9,059
And1: 484
Joined: Jul 04, 2002

Re: Next contracts 

Post#25 » by red4hf » Mon Oct 5, 2020 9:28 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
red4hf wrote:Nobody is giving Gobert that kind of money....... Not us, not anyone else......

You don't think someone will offer him the max?


I really don't..... Especially with the unknown financial situation the league is facing.....
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,190
And1: 6,032
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Next contracts 

Post#26 » by babyjax13 » Mon Oct 5, 2020 9:30 pm

red4hf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
red4hf wrote:Nobody is giving Gobert that kind of money....... Not us, not anyone else......

You don't think someone will offer him the max?


I really don't..... Especially with the unknown financial situation the league is facing.....


We will know how it affects the league, though, by the time he is a free agent. Not only that, but if the cap goes down, his max will be less...
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
red4hf
Jazz Forum GTS Champion 2019-2020
Posts: 9,059
And1: 484
Joined: Jul 04, 2002

Re: Next contracts 

Post#27 » by red4hf » Mon Oct 5, 2020 9:33 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
red4hf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote: You don't think someone will offer him the max?


I really don't..... Especially with the unknown financial situation the league is facing.....


We will know how it affects the league, though, by the time he is a free agent. Not only that, but if the cap goes down, his max will be less...


It's a possibility that this pandemic will be over, and the NBA won't suffer any backlash for the players' involvement in politics......

It's also possible that the pandemic could get worse, and a lot of people are turned off by what has been happening...... We just won't know until that time comes......
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 14,899
And1: 5,651
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Next contracts 

Post#28 » by KqWIN » Mon Oct 5, 2020 9:49 pm

The fact that nobody needs/wants a C is why Rudy won't get the supermax. If he wants to leave for a normal max, there might not be one out there for him.
MTJazzv3
Starter
Posts: 2,061
And1: 806
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
 

Re: Next contracts 

Post#29 » by MTJazzv3 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 12:03 am

KqWIN wrote:The fact that nobody needs/wants a C is why Rudy won't get the supermax. If he wants to leave for a normal max, there might not be one out there for him.


Not that I did any research, but seriously, what team in the league can afford Rudy at a max contract because he is the missing piece? Not being snarky, but I can't come up with one off the top of my head. For a max contract, would the Jazz be better off with a DPOY who is a center or a wing? I vote wing, (not saying one is available but for argument). Rudy is a great player and of huge value for many teams in the league, but its not like there are a bunch of suitors for a max, much less super max, center with very specific but limited offensive skills. If he could pass/be a playmaker as well? Probably, but in a weird way he is one dimensional in the playoffs - he can defend the rim all night but it doesn't matter as opponents are draining long range bombs over him/drawing him out to cover opponents center that he has to guard very far from the rim as those guys have an outside shot.
"And the cowhide globe hits home." - RIP Hot Rod Hundley
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 14,899
And1: 5,651
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Next contracts 

Post#30 » by KqWIN » Tue Oct 6, 2020 12:26 am

MTJazzv3 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The fact that nobody needs/wants a C is why Rudy won't get the supermax. If he wants to leave for a normal max, there might not be one out there for him.


Not that I did any research, but seriously, what team in the league can afford Rudy at a max contract because he is the missing piece? Not being snarky, but I can't come up with one off the top of my head. For a max contract, would the Jazz be better off with a DPOY who is a center or a wing? I vote wing, (not saying one is available but for argument). Rudy is a great player and of huge value for many teams in the league, but its not like there are a bunch of suitors for a max, much less super max, center with very specific but limited offensive skills. If he could pass/be a playmaker as well? Probably, but in a weird way he is one dimensional in the playoffs - he can defend the rim all night but it doesn't matter as opponents are draining long range bombs over him/drawing him out to cover opponents center that he has to guard very far from the rim as those guys have an outside shot.


I think Rudy's good enough for max money, but like you said, there is no market for him. I think the idea situation for him would be something like Dallas, but even if Rudy was dying to play there I don't think they would offer him a max.

Rudy is our most undervalued player and I don't think it's close...we should take advantage of that and get him on a contract that reflects his market value and not necessarily what his on court value is. When Rudy signed his first $100M contract, Whiteside also signed a $100 contract. Now Whiteside will be lucky to get more than $5M. We're talking about Derrick Favors, a high quality starting C, getting the BAE and we're thinking that Gobert is going demand a supermax? That's just not the reality of the league right now. The more I think about it, the more confident I am that he'll be getting even less than the normal max.

Personally, I think Rudy's playoff "struggles" are way overblown, especially on defense. I also think he's just fine guarding the perimeter. Most people think Rudy plays by the rim because he can't guard outside, but it's the other way around. The Jazz can't play defense without Rudy by the rim and Rudy's actually really good on the perimeter.

If there is a failure on defense, it's the one defender + 4 people who do nothing defensive approach applied by Quin and this roster composition. Put Kawhi or PG on the perimeter and you're still going to get toasted if the 4 guys behind him are Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, O'Neale, Bogdanovich ect. The Clippers had both and they still got rocked by the same team.
MTJazzv3
Starter
Posts: 2,061
And1: 806
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
 

Re: Next contracts 

Post#31 » by MTJazzv3 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:23 pm

KqWIN wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The fact that nobody needs/wants a C is why Rudy won't get the supermax. If he wants to leave for a normal max, there might not be one out there for him.


Not that I did any research, but seriously, what team in the league can afford Rudy at a max contract because he is the missing piece? Not being snarky, but I can't come up with one off the top of my head. For a max contract, would the Jazz be better off with a DPOY who is a center or a wing? I vote wing, (not saying one is available but for argument). Rudy is a great player and of huge value for many teams in the league, but its not like there are a bunch of suitors for a max, much less super max, center with very specific but limited offensive skills. If he could pass/be a playmaker as well? Probably, but in a weird way he is one dimensional in the playoffs - he can defend the rim all night but it doesn't matter as opponents are draining long range bombs over him/drawing him out to cover opponents center that he has to guard very far from the rim as those guys have an outside shot.


I think Rudy's good enough for max money, but like you said, there is no market for him. I think the idea situation for him would be something like Dallas, but even if Rudy was dying to play there I don't think they would offer him a max.

Rudy is our most undervalued player and I don't think it's close...we should take advantage of that and get him on a contract that reflects his market value and not necessarily what his on court value is. When Rudy signed his first $100M contract, Whiteside also signed a $100 contract. Now Whiteside will be lucky to get more than $5M. We're talking about Derrick Favors, a high quality starting C, getting the BAE and we're thinking that Gobert is going demand a supermax? That's just not the reality of the league right now. The more I think about it, the more confident I am that he'll be getting even less than the normal max.

Personally, I think Rudy's playoff "struggles" are way overblown, especially on defense. I also think he's just fine guarding the perimeter. Most people think Rudy plays by the rim because he can't guard outside, but it's the other way around. The Jazz can't play defense without Rudy by the rim and Rudy's actually really good on the perimeter.

If there is a failure on defense, it's the one defender + 4 people who do nothing defensive approach applied by Quin and this roster composition. Put Kawhi or PG on the perimeter and you're still going to get toasted if the 4 guys behind him are Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, O'Neale, Bogdanovich ect. The Clippers had both and they still got rocked by the same team.


Good points. But honestly? I don't think the rest of the Jazz players are into playing with Rudy at this point. Not like those guys don't have to look in the mirror. Time to turn the page, re-tool around DM. The roster is a bit broken in many ways but Rudy needs a change of scenery. I honestly think the Jazz are only "so-so" interested in him at this point, much less backing up the Brinks truck.
"And the cowhide globe hits home." - RIP Hot Rod Hundley
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,190
And1: 6,032
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Next contracts 

Post#32 » by babyjax13 » Thu Oct 8, 2020 3:58 am

MTJazzv3 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:
Not that I did any research, but seriously, what team in the league can afford Rudy at a max contract because he is the missing piece? Not being snarky, but I can't come up with one off the top of my head. For a max contract, would the Jazz be better off with a DPOY who is a center or a wing? I vote wing, (not saying one is available but for argument). Rudy is a great player and of huge value for many teams in the league, but its not like there are a bunch of suitors for a max, much less super max, center with very specific but limited offensive skills. If he could pass/be a playmaker as well? Probably, but in a weird way he is one dimensional in the playoffs - he can defend the rim all night but it doesn't matter as opponents are draining long range bombs over him/drawing him out to cover opponents center that he has to guard very far from the rim as those guys have an outside shot.


I think Rudy's good enough for max money, but like you said, there is no market for him. I think the idea situation for him would be something like Dallas, but even if Rudy was dying to play there I don't think they would offer him a max.

Rudy is our most undervalued player and I don't think it's close...we should take advantage of that and get him on a contract that reflects his market value and not necessarily what his on court value is. When Rudy signed his first $100M contract, Whiteside also signed a $100 contract. Now Whiteside will be lucky to get more than $5M. We're talking about Derrick Favors, a high quality starting C, getting the BAE and we're thinking that Gobert is going demand a supermax? That's just not the reality of the league right now. The more I think about it, the more confident I am that he'll be getting even less than the normal max.

Personally, I think Rudy's playoff "struggles" are way overblown, especially on defense. I also think he's just fine guarding the perimeter. Most people think Rudy plays by the rim because he can't guard outside, but it's the other way around. The Jazz can't play defense without Rudy by the rim and Rudy's actually really good on the perimeter.

If there is a failure on defense, it's the one defender + 4 people who do nothing defensive approach applied by Quin and this roster composition. Put Kawhi or PG on the perimeter and you're still going to get toasted if the 4 guys behind him are Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, O'Neale, Bogdanovich ect. The Clippers had both and they still got rocked by the same team.


Good points. But honestly? I don't think the rest of the Jazz players are into playing with Rudy at this point. Not like those guys don't have to look in the mirror. Time to turn the page, re-tool around DM. The roster is a bit broken in many ways but Rudy needs a change of scenery. I honestly think the Jazz are only "so-so" interested in him at this point, much less backing up the Brinks truck.


Resigned at that price, though, he's easily moveable for value if that were the case. Great points KqWIN.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl

Return to Utah Jazz