Draft Day Thread

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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#161 » by KqWIN » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:43 pm

CAE15 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I really hate this 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert narrative. What we'll have is 36 minutes of Rudy Gobert, and 12 minutes of someone who might play like him but is significantly worse. The only way our crap defensive system works is because Gobert is literally the best in the world, and it's still not good enough. We need to give him some help and get away from this 1 vs 5 defensive scheme.
Lord you don't want Rudy being at 36 minutes. Hell the jump last year to 34 from near 32 wasn't great. Rudy played that much because he needed to be out. Yes, we don't know how Dok will do in those minutes but our entire defense is built on funneling to a shot blocking big! But a fresher Rudy isn't a bad thing.

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Rudy is on a 36 mpg. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more...but he is on schedule to play 36.

But that's besides the point. Point is, you're not getting Rudy Gobert for 48 minutes by getting Dok. We can play Rudy Gobert 20 minutes, and he'll be super fresh, but that doesn't help us because he's on the bench for so long. Just because we play the same scheme with Rudy on the bench does not mean we get the same results. We did the same thing with Bradley, but he's not Gobert. Neither is Udoka.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#162 » by KqWIN » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:58 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I really hate this 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert narrative. What we'll have is 36 minutes of Rudy Gobert, and 12 minutes of someone who might play like him but is significantly worse. The only way our crap defensive system works is because Gobert is literally the best in the world, and it's still not good enough. We need to give him some help and get away from this 1 vs 5 defensive scheme.

That's the funny thing to me too... it's like... it's just a given that a guy drafted at the end of the first will be worthy sub for 2 time DPOY , 3 times All NBA center. Like oh yeah... sure... that's like 48 minutes of elite rim protection now, right? Like wut? Why the hell would he drop to 27 if he was that much of a surefire rim protector and defensive presence? There is nothing certain about Azubuike! We don't know if he will be good or not defensively, we don't know if he will be good rolling to the rim at that level... we don't know whether he will make good decisions on the short roll(under 1AST per game and 2.5TO per game suggest that maybe not)... ironically the most surefire thing we know about him is that he will very likely miss most of his FTAs... that's it...


Seriously, it's insanity. 48 minutes of Gobert my ass...Gobert is the best in the game at what he does. If we want to be picky, there's no one in the league we could add and say that we have 48 minutes of Gobert. No one can execute Gobert's role better than Gobert. Thinking that taking a rookie big, who most didn't have as a first rounder, gives us 48 minutes of Gobert....come on.

Like you said, it's no guarantee that Udoka is better than Bradley on either end. There's no guarantee that he's even better than Ed Davis or Juwan Morgan on either end. If we had to dump Bradley for our FA plans, I'd still feel better about this trade if we didn't draft a C. If we have a trash backup C, that's OK because our best player by a mile is a C.

I don't even think Udoka is a bad C prospect...it's just not what we needed. The FO is always thinking in the wrong direction.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#163 » by GobertReport » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:29 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:I really hate this 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert narrative. What we'll have is 36 minutes of Rudy Gobert, and 12 minutes of someone who might play like him but is significantly worse. The only way our crap defensive system works is because Gobert is literally the best in the world, and it's still not good enough. We need to give him some help and get away from this 1 vs 5 defensive scheme.

That's the funny thing to me too... it's like... it's just a given that a guy drafted at the end of the first will be worthy sub for 2 time DPOY , 3 times All NBA center. Like oh yeah... sure... that's like 48 minutes of elite rim protection now, right? Like wut? Why the hell would he drop to 27 if he was that much of a surefire rim protector and defensive presence? There is nothing certain about Azubuike! We don't know if he will be good or not defensively, we don't know if he will be good rolling to the rim at that level... we don't know whether he will make good decisions on the short roll(under 1AST per game and 2.5TO per game suggest that maybe not)... ironically the most surefire thing we know about him is that he will very likely miss most of his FTAs... that's it...


Seriously, it's insanity. 48 minutes of Gobert my ass...Gobert is the best in the game at what he does. If we want to be picky, there's no one in the league we could add and say that we have 48 minutes of Gobert. No one can execute Gobert's role better than Gobert. Thinking that taking a rookie big, who most didn't have as a first rounder, gives us 48 minutes of Gobert....come on.

Like you said, it's no guarantee that Udoka is better than Bradley on either end. There's no guarantee that he's even better than Ed Davis or Juwan Morgan on either end. If we had to dump Bradley for our FA plans, I'd still feel better about this trade if we didn't draft a C. If we have a trash backup C, that's OK because our best player by a mile is a C.

I don't even think Udoka is a bad C prospect...it's just not what we needed. The FO is always thinking in the wrong direction.


It all comes down to motor and if we compare Gobert to UA when they were first drafted, that looks promising.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#164 » by KqWIN » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:41 pm

GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:That's the funny thing to me too... it's like... it's just a given that a guy drafted at the end of the first will be worthy sub for 2 time DPOY , 3 times All NBA center. Like oh yeah... sure... that's like 48 minutes of elite rim protection now, right? Like wut? Why the hell would he drop to 27 if he was that much of a surefire rim protector and defensive presence? There is nothing certain about Azubuike! We don't know if he will be good or not defensively, we don't know if he will be good rolling to the rim at that level... we don't know whether he will make good decisions on the short roll(under 1AST per game and 2.5TO per game suggest that maybe not)... ironically the most surefire thing we know about him is that he will very likely miss most of his FTAs... that's it...


Seriously, it's insanity. 48 minutes of Gobert my ass...Gobert is the best in the game at what he does. If we want to be picky, there's no one in the league we could add and say that we have 48 minutes of Gobert. No one can execute Gobert's role better than Gobert. Thinking that taking a rookie big, who most didn't have as a first rounder, gives us 48 minutes of Gobert....come on.

Like you said, it's no guarantee that Udoka is better than Bradley on either end. There's no guarantee that he's even better than Ed Davis or Juwan Morgan on either end. If we had to dump Bradley for our FA plans, I'd still feel better about this trade if we didn't draft a C. If we have a trash backup C, that's OK because our best player by a mile is a C.

I don't even think Udoka is a bad C prospect...it's just not what we needed. The FO is always thinking in the wrong direction.


It all comes down to motor and if we compare Gobert to UA when they were first drafted, that looks promising.


I don't see it that way at all. Gobert ability and value comes from so much more than his measurables. There are plenty of players with Gobert like measurables. Rudy's motor isn't the only thing that separates him from all the rest.

Beyond getting out maneuvered by the Knicks of all teams, this pick just shows poor direction and vision by the FO. They've spent so much capital trying find Rudy's backup when it's literally the least important position on the team. Maybe we should stop investing capital in unknowns when their ceiling is the least important spot on the team. That's how we ended up salary dumping Bradley after wasting 3 years to develop him.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#165 » by GobertReport » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:30 pm

KqWIN wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Seriously, it's insanity. 48 minutes of Gobert my ass...Gobert is the best in the game at what he does. If we want to be picky, there's no one in the league we could add and say that we have 48 minutes of Gobert. No one can execute Gobert's role better than Gobert. Thinking that taking a rookie big, who most didn't have as a first rounder, gives us 48 minutes of Gobert....come on.

Like you said, it's no guarantee that Udoka is better than Bradley on either end. There's no guarantee that he's even better than Ed Davis or Juwan Morgan on either end. If we had to dump Bradley for our FA plans, I'd still feel better about this trade if we didn't draft a C. If we have a trash backup C, that's OK because our best player by a mile is a C.

I don't even think Udoka is a bad C prospect...it's just not what we needed. The FO is always thinking in the wrong direction.


It all comes down to motor and if we compare Gobert to UA when they were first drafted, that looks promising.


I don't see it that way at all. Gobert ability and value comes from so much more than his measurables. There are plenty of players with Gobert like measurables. Rudy's motor isn't the only thing that separates him from all the rest.

Beyond getting out maneuvered by the Knicks of all teams, this pick just shows poor direction and vision by the FO. They've spent so much capital trying find Rudy's backup when it's literally the least important position on the team. Maybe we should stop investing capital in unknowns when their ceiling is the least important spot on the team. That's how we ended up salary dumping Bradley after wasting 3 years to develop him.


Not going to disagree on how bad the Bradley pick was BUT we obviously need a defensive anchor for the 2nd unit and those are not easy to come by. Also I would say UA was a much more polished product coming out of the draft vs Gobert and they have similar characteristics.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#166 » by MTJazzv3 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:42 pm

Out-of-the-box Udoka looks more polished/energetic and with better footwork than Bradley did after 3 years. As for Rudy comps, I'd say he is way more ready to go than Rudy was as a rookie. One huge example? Dude has hands and he is way quicker to the hoop, and already has an NBA body. We shall see but I'm not throwing the guy under a bus until I see him with some NBA minutes.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#167 » by stitches » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:06 pm

Have to give it to Andy Larsen BTW. The only Jazz media member who is actually showing anything resembling a spine and is actually calling it like it is right now with what the Jazz did in the draft.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#168 » by KqWIN » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:36 pm

stitches wrote:Have to give it to Andy Larsen BTW. The only Jazz media member who is actually showing anything resembling a spine and is actually calling it like it is right now with what the Jazz did in the draft.


It's really fun how everyone in the media (correctly) identified our need for a wing defender...Now apparently our need the whole time was 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert :lol:
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#169 » by SoCalJazzFan » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:10 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:Have to give it to Andy Larsen BTW. The only Jazz media member who is actually showing anything resembling a spine and is actually calling it like it is right now with what the Jazz did in the draft.


It's really fun how everyone in the media (correctly) identified our need for a wing defender...Now apparently our need the whole time was 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert :lol:

Bradley was never going to work, but pinning the defensive failings of the abysmal bench unit just on Bradley just isn't accurate or fair, IMO.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#170 » by GobertReport » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:41 pm

I know everyone is disappointed that we didn’t draft a 3 & D wing and I think the reason being is because we already have that guy in Jarrell Brantley, he’s strong, long, athletic, and seems to be a decent 3 Pt shooter.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#171 » by Daddy 801 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:53 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:Have to give it to Andy Larsen BTW. The only Jazz media member who is actually showing anything resembling a spine and is actually calling it like it is right now with what the Jazz did in the draft.


It's really fun how everyone in the media (correctly) identified our need for a wing defender...Now apparently our need the whole time was 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert :lol:

Bradley was never going to work, but pinning the defensive failings of the abysmal bench unit just on Bradley just isn't accurate or fair, IMO.


It is not fair to put all of the blame on Bradley. I don't think anyone is. And the Jazz should address those issues as well. The Jazz wing defense needs to get better.

But Bradley is terrible at rim defense. Guys were always getting layups on him. Bradley wasn't even remotely close to blocking or deflecting those layups. He didn't have the lateral quickness or the defensive intelligence to do what the Jazz require of a big man. The offense of other teams would immediately shift to driving into the lane for easy layups the second Gobert sat.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#172 » by zero24gravity » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:22 pm

GobertReport wrote:I know everyone is disappointed that we didn’t draft a 3 & D wing and I think the reason being is because we already have that guy in Jarrell Brantley, he’s strong, long, athletic, and seems to be a decent 3 Pt shooter.


I'm pretty high on Brantley, based on what I've seen. He also appears to have all the skills the Jazz are lacking, as you mentioned, but then the Jazz play literally EVERYONE on the roster ahead of him in the bubble seeding games. They know more than I do, but I wonder what the disconnect is for the Jazz coaching staff. I hope he gets a chance at real burn this season. If the team is still running out Niang with major minutes, they've failed miserably to upgrade their bench. Niang has a nice outside stroke and seems like an awesome guy, but that's simply not enough, IMO. Brantley & Azubuike hopefully add some desperately needed length, rebounding, defense, toughness & athleticism to the bench this year.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#173 » by KJStark23 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:05 am

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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#174 » by Tom349 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:53 am

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:Have to give it to Andy Larsen BTW. The only Jazz media member who is actually showing anything resembling a spine and is actually calling it like it is right now with what the Jazz did in the draft.


It's really fun how everyone in the media (correctly) identified our need for a wing defender...Now apparently our need the whole time was 48 minutes of Rudy Gobert :lol:


I could make a good argument that it was our biggest area of concern. It's clear that Gobert is our MVP and this season whether because of a lack of back up i.e. Favors or because there was a lack of help defense or players missing him while open on the offensive end, there was times where Rudy simply didn't play hard and was awful. It filtered down to the rest of the team and the defense which is designed specifically around him leaked easy baskets big time. Now if Rudy doesn't play hard Favors can step in and do just that and at 20 minutes a game I honestly rate Favors as one of the best C's in the game, its when he plays too many minutes and his body can't handle it he becomes less effective.

I also don't understand why a wing defender is all of sudden a huge demand for us, don't get me wrong we need another defender to help defend the likes of Harden, Lillard and Murray but I would rather and on ball defender such as Dunn over any player we have overlooked in the draft or by signing Favors and Clarkson. Im also higher on Oni than most on here and think he has a real shot at making it, he could be another option to guard those guys. Signing Favors actually helps us guard the likes of Lebron/AD and Giannis/Lopez, Jokic/Milsap. The only team the worries be a far as wings go remains the clippers and heat, the rest of the league its all about the guard play.

I'll admit I didn't watch much college basketball and only really highlights but the guys we passed on and supposedly have made a huge mistake in doing so I hardly guys I considered likely at making it anyhow and only time will tell if that is the case. They all had elite measurable's but their basketball skills were severely lacking based on their highlights. The one I liked most was Green who although I I think has limited upside is going to be a good defender and really understand his role on offense and he was well and truly gone by our pick. Funnily enough the only highlights packaged I liked was Hughes and had we taken him at 27 I don't think the hysteria amongst Jazz fans would be the same. Based on his highlights he was one of the best shooters in the draft with legit NBA range, which with improved spacing and faster ball movement I feel he has a good shot of becoming a big threat from deep on catch and shoot attempts as opposed to the attempts he was forced into at college. Highlights obviously don't always show the full story but I recall watching Thybulle's defense highlights before he was drafted and there was little question he would be able to defend star players in the league and if he improved his jump shot he value would increase even more so. These guys still have questions about their defense let alone their offense.

Im over the moon with Favors coming back, I think Clarkson represents fair value and although we don't need another ball hog which he is no.1 ball hog on this team, we absolutely need his energy off the bench which is where he gives this team the most value (think Booker a few years ago) and our two draftees it remains to be seen what comes of them. It might not have been the way I personally would have gone about it but I think DL and JZ have done a very good job of getting the players Quins need for his defensive system to work (obviously not Clarkson), it is now up to Quin to make sure that system works as their isn't going to be a plan B, drop big coverage - ride or die.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#175 » by stitches » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:53 pm

Read on Twitter


Hughes has already signed his contract it seems.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#176 » by stitches » Today 8:04 pm

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Hope it's not the same model they used that told them Bradley was top 10 prospect too... it's very possible that model overvalues something insignificant like individual rebounding for example.
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Re: Draft Day Thread 

Post#177 » by red4hf » Today 10:11 pm

stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter


Hope it's not the same model they used that told them Bradley was top 10 prospect too... it's very possible that model overvalues something insignificant like individual rebounding for example.


The advanced metrics for Bradley last year were off the chart:

21.7 PER
.236 WIN%
135 O-Rat
106 D-Rat

And we all know how well those translated during actual games...... Their reasoning is just plain crap......

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