Draft Grades - Jazz

Moderators: DelaneyRudd, FJS, Inigo Montoya

User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#1 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:38 am

We can discuss here what grade we give the Jazz's individual picks and an overall grade for how the Jazz did for the night, as well as link to articles that grade the Jazz. I'll start.

Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,639
And1: 6,271
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#2 » by babyjax13 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:27 pm

Udoka: C-
This one is a head scratcher on its face. Maybe they see something we don't (fingers crossed). I don't mind a flier on a backup center, but doing so in the first round was odd, and moving back when there were excellent prospects on the board at 23 was even more odd.

Hughes: C+
Made more sense, I'm just not crazy about him, I think Woodard, Mannion, Riller, and Reed were all much better prospects.

Trade: D+
Hated moving back once I saw Bolmaro was selected at 23 and Hampton had dropped.

This is a draft where I am really hoping that there's just something we don't know about one of these guys.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
GobertReport
RealGM
Posts: 10,843
And1: 2,335
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#3 » by GobertReport » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:36 pm

I’m not sure how we didn’t end up with Woodard who was selected at 40.
The artist formally known as Underkanter.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,639
And1: 6,271
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#4 » by babyjax13 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:16 pm

GobertReport wrote:I’m not sure how we didn’t end up with Woodard who was selected at 40.


My feeling is that Locke liked Woodard, but the reason he really started talking about Quickley and Udoka is because the FO liked them --- and having interviewed/watched/worked out Green and McDaniels, weren't crazy about who they were considering at 23 (and McDaniels went even after us).
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#5 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:16 pm

Thought I'd hunt for some grades for the Jazz on the web. Here's what I found (only our first round pick). This is only a cursory look at the top results - I wasn't looking to make any kind of point about the pick, just posting what I found. If there are sites who gave us a better grade, I'd welcome their addition:

SI: Utah Jazz: D+
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/11/19/nba-draft-grades-lamelo-ball

CBS Sports: C+
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-draft-grades-pick-by-pick-results-tracker-and-analysis-for-completed-rounds-1-and-2/

USA Today: C
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2020/11/19/nba-draft-grades-2020-all-30-teams-ranked-best-worst/3774369001/

SB Nation: C
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2020/11/18/21574371/nba-draft-grades-2020-timberwolves-warriors-bulls-lamelo-ball

DraftKings Nation: D
https://dknation.draftkings.com/2020/11/19/21573845/nba-draft-2020-team-grades-pick-trade-analysis-timberwolves-pistons-warriors-celtics

Yahoo Sports: B
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/draft/
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
GobertReport
RealGM
Posts: 10,843
And1: 2,335
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#6 » by GobertReport » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:29 pm

My thoughts on the draft:

UA is a good pick in thinking that his floor is a good defensive backup 5 and his ceiling is likely a Gobert replacement in 3-4 years.

We didn’t select Woodard because the FO thinks that Jarell Brantley can already provide what Woodard does and less of a project.

Hughes is a complete mystery and not even on my radar.

Major disappointment, not buying 60 from New Orleans and taking Morrill.
The artist formally known as Underkanter.
SoCalJazzFan
Analyst
Posts: 3,526
And1: 691
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#7 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:43 pm

Most of the draft grades given by sportswriters are one of the couple of worst of all the NBA teams, and deservedly so.

This draft looks to be an unmitigated disaster. Last year's draft was an unmitigated disaster. 2018 was an unmitigated disaster. After hitting a grand slam in 2017 with the first pick, they then struck out swinging so hard they pulled their groin in the process. The draft successes of Gobert and Mitchell are increasingly fading and might not have even been the result of those making evaluations and decisions now.
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod - Jazz
Senior Mod - Jazz
Posts: 102,872
And1: 9,044
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#8 » by DelaneyRudd » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:04 pm

The grades just seem to parrot the common idealization of centers playing3 point offense. I kinda agree but given the athleticism Udoka has I’m buying into the pick. He seems to have a skill set like Rudy and Embiid (sans outside shooting). Training camp is in a few weeks so we won’t have to play what ifs for long.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,639
And1: 6,271
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#9 » by babyjax13 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:20 pm

I'll make the case for Udoka, I think I'm warming up to it.

Measurements among centers:
Height: 1st (tied, 6'-11.5")
Wingspan: 1st (7'-7.25")
Standing Reach: 5th (9'-1")
Standing Vertical: 1st (37 inches, tied Tyler Bey)
Sprint: 2nd (3.23 seconds)
Lane Agility: Last (11.82)
Shuttle Run: Last (3.61 seconds)

It was a really small group, so to compare, last season he would have ranked:
Wingspan: 5th
Standing Reach: 9th
Standing Vertical: 1st (1st in the entire draft)
Sprint: Second (only Bruno Fernando was faster @3.21, way faster than all the other centers)
Lane Agility: Third (faster than Naz Reid, close to Jaxson Hayes @ 11.74)
Shuttle Run: 7th/second to last (faster than Naz Reid)

Reportedly he has dropped a bit of weight, I assume that is to help with lateral quickness. But the upshot is he appears to be elite among centers in:
1. Standing Vertical
2. Straight Line Speed
3. Wingspan

Average in:
1. Lateral Speed
2. Standing Reach

But he is doing this at a MASSIVE size, so it actually becomes pretty impressive, and I think his length helps with the lateral speed gap. He also appears very coordinated.

NOT SAYING I love the pick, but I can see an argument from the measurables that he's a reasonable choice there and has a path to be pretty good. I also had him in the first round till I decided that Utah was targeting him, then I moved him to 38 in my mock, so he actually got selected around where I thought he could.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,118
And1: 5,800
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#10 » by KqWIN » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:33 pm

I think Udoka is fine in a vacuum, but considering the needs of this team, the moves we executed on draft day, and the other options available this was a bad move. At the very least, it acknowledges how terrible the Tony Bradley experiment was. Trading up to get him, developing him for 3 years, and once he finally gets into the rotation you salary dump him and replace him with another unknown....repeating the cycle. Udoka's ceiling with the Jazz is 12 mpg as Rudy's backup. That's the only way he can contribute and even we think he has a good shot at doing that, we don't know if he's better than the guy we just salary dumped.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,639
And1: 6,271
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#11 » by babyjax13 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:25 pm

KqWIN wrote:I think Udoka is fine in a vacuum, but considering the needs of this team, the moves we executed on draft day, and the other options available this was a bad move. At the very least, it acknowledges how terrible the Tony Bradley experiment was. Trading up to get him, developing him for 3 years, and once he finally gets into the rotation you salary dump him and replace him with another unknown....repeating the cycle. Udoka's ceiling with the Jazz is 12 mpg as Rudy's backup. That's the only way he can contribute and even we think he has a good shot at doing that, we don't know if he's better than the guy we just salary dumped.


I agree with this entirely. The only other option is that they may be considering trading Rudy and they see Udoka as a really high level prospect...but, I doubt both counts.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
SoCalJazzFan
Analyst
Posts: 3,526
And1: 691
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#12 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:33 pm

I don't even think Udoka is fine in a vacuum. There is a reason he was projected to be picked in the 40s or 50s, and the only reason he would have been picked is his size.

Defensively, he is a good rim protector given his size. Apparently, he is decent at PnR defense too. However, pull him anything near 10 ft or more from the basket and he becomes an absolute liability, as in perhaps the easiest guy to blow past ever. If the opposing team has a shooting big or can play small ball you'll probably find him on the bench.

Get this, in 4 years of college, he has taken a grand total of 0, yes zero, shots outside of 5 feet! We all know that he is only a 41% free throw shooter. Nearly all of his highlights are blocks and dunks at the rim. Moreover, he is a turnover machine.

Perhaps he turns into what we need, but I predict a bust (another bust), and someone who doesn't fit whatsoever into the modern NBA.

Tyler Bey, on the other hand, will probably end up being at least a rotational player if not a starter, and also would have fit a need of the Jazz. Oturu has a chance to be a decent player as he not only provides rim protection but also can stretch the floor. I complained bitterly about the Jazz selecting Bradley at the time, and I am complaining bitterly again.
User avatar
ForeverRDjazz
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,442
And1: 306
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
     

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#13 » by ForeverRDjazz » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:03 am

I think Udoka will come in playing better than Bradley played his last year. And I thought Bradley looked pretty good. Lot will ride on how hard the kid will work and I believe the Jazz really good and helping the young players grow. Kid will get time next year.
MTJazzv3
Starter
Posts: 2,091
And1: 818
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
 

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#14 » by MTJazzv3 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:18 am

ForeverRDjazz wrote:I think Udoka will come in playing better than Bradley played his last year. And I thought Bradley looked pretty good. Lot will ride on how hard the kid will work and I believe the Jazz really good and helping the young players grow. Kid will get time next year.


My thoughts exactly! (And good to see you back). After watching clips on Udo I'm kind of sold. Granted, he isn't a 3&D wing but he looks hella lot better already than Rudy did as a, um, late 1st round surprise draft pick for the Jazz. Rim protection and high efficiency dunking centers may be out of fashion today, but they actually serve a function in some successful team schemes, like the Jazz have. No, we didn't splash the headlines, but I like the pick and moving stiffs Bradley and Davis on the bigs end of things.

On Hughes...walking bucket on a low salary. Gonna give this guy a ton of leash as well. Not buying the "but he's from Syracuse" narrative just yet on Hughes. Rudy, go mentor Udo. DM and Clarkson, go mentor Hughes. Hope springs eternal as a Jazz fan lol.
"And the cowhide globe hits home." - RIP Hot Rod Hundley
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,118
And1: 5,800
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#15 » by KqWIN » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:24 am

Rookies usually have a summer league and full camp to train with the team. The draft was yesterday and the season starts in a month. I wouldn’t count on Doke playing right away. Morgan or a FA will likely be the backup C.
MTJazzv3
Starter
Posts: 2,091
And1: 818
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
 

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#16 » by MTJazzv3 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:50 am

KqWIN wrote:Rookies usually have a summer league and full camp to train with the team. The draft was yesterday and the season starts in a month. I wouldn’t count on Doke playing right away. Morgan or a FA will likely be the backup C.


Love your continuous good attitude! Championship or this whole Jazz obsession will never validate? Relax. Let's see what happens? One or two of these guys might be good? Or are you calling it now? They suck?
"And the cowhide globe hits home." - RIP Hot Rod Hundley
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 12,528
And1: 5,235
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#17 » by Catchall » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:56 am

The Jazz designed their whole draft strategy around Udoka. Everything from the trade back with NY, to packaging #38 with Tony Bradley, to getting a wing in the 2nd rd, was based around Udoka as the priority. This is the Udoka draft.

Clearly the Jazz like this guy, and I can see the logic of having a backup C play the same defensive role that Rudy does. For the past 2 years, the entire defensive strategy has been to funnel offensive players into Rudy in the paint. That system continued to work when Favors was the backup, but Tony Bradley and Ed Davis couldn't stop anybody. Now the Jazz potentially have 48 mins of continuity in their defensive scheme.

I like what I'm seeing of Elijah Hughes. He reminds me of JR Smith--a 6'5", athletic, volume shooter with deep range and the ability to drive and get on the rim. I think he's a good pickup.

If the Jazz wanted to, they could have made a move for #16 from Houston, where they could have drafted Poku, Saddiq or Maxey. They could have done nothing at all and let Bolmaro or Hampton fall in their lap at #23. It appears, however, that Udoka is their guy. Justin Zanik and Dave Morway were talking about him like he's the next Shaq.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,118
And1: 5,800
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#18 » by KqWIN » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:26 pm

MTJazzv3 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Rookies usually have a summer league and full camp to train with the team. The draft was yesterday and the season starts in a month. I wouldn’t count on Doke playing right away. Morgan or a FA will likely be the backup C.


Love your continuous good attitude! Championship or this whole Jazz obsession will never validate? Relax. Let's see what happens? One or two of these guys might be good? Or are you calling it now? They suck?


Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to acknowledge this entire Covid thing. You're right. We're in June, there's nothing different about this year, and Doke is going to step in right away and give us 48 minutes of Gobert!
EireannX
Senior
Posts: 745
And1: 468
Joined: May 19, 2011
   

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#19 » by EireannX » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:41 am

Catchall wrote:Clearly the Jazz like this guy, and I can see the logic of having a backup C play the same defensive role that Rudy does.


It’s more than defence, Rudy is an offensive monster too according to advanced metrics. This basically means we can run the same schemes at both ends of the floor all game and stop falling apart when Gobert sits.
EireannX
Senior
Posts: 745
And1: 468
Joined: May 19, 2011
   

Re: Draft Grades - Jazz 

Post#20 » by EireannX » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:43 am

Not sure how to take CBS’ grades.

“ 38. Utah Jazz (via NY): PG Saben Lee, Vanderbilt

The Jazz tend to value versatility throughout their entire roster, which explains why they made the call here to grab Lee at No. 38. He wasn't in our projected top-60, so the grade reflects that, but Lee's combination as a dribbler, creator and scorer should fit nicely in Utah's system next to Donovan Mitchell. Grade: C+

39. New Orleans Pelicans (via WAS): SF Elijah Hughes, Syracuse

The Pelicans are striking a nice balance as they surround Zion Williamson with talent, underscored here by the selection of the Syracuse standout. Hughes was a big-time college scorer who thrived as a No. 1 option but should excel in a small role as a creator and scorer on the wing. Grade: B”

Return to Utah Jazz