Favors and Clarkson return

Moderators: DelaneyRudd, FJS, Inigo Montoya

SoCalJazzFan
Analyst
Posts: 3,526
And1: 691
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#41 » by SoCalJazzFan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:23 am

Lava Rock Kid wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:David Locke was ready to go with his pro Jazz organization spin on the signing of DFav and Clarkson, and he sounded reasonably convincing. I am excited to see this team compete.

Locked On Jazz - Daily Podcast On The Utah Jazz
https://open.spotify.com/show/5PRcngefZpnWgyFyMbYJlk


Earlier in the week he said it wasn’t a good idea to bring back favors because we couldn’t score with him and gobert on the floor

:lol: :lol:
MTJazzv3
Starter
Posts: 2,091
And1: 818
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
 

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#42 » by MTJazzv3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:40 am

I'm actually pleased with the both transactions and on the draft, wait and see, but it isn't a bust yet and anyone saying so has a secret crystal ball inaccessible to the rest of us. Not many on this board were remotely excited about Gobert on draft day (for example). Jazz are basically running last season back with some important exceptions: 1) Favors v Bradley, 2) Clarkson fully integrated rather than a half season addition; 3) Conley...finally got it together, even before the Bubble and is now fully integrated. As constructed and if healthy they are a tough out in the second round. And who knows, DM doesn't exactly look like he has peaked yet - he has gotten seriously better each year on his rookie contract, and that is what an NBA star looks like. Jazz still going with continuity approach - experiment still in progress but looks like it could bear fruit?
"And the cowhide globe hits home." - RIP Hot Rod Hundley
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod - Jazz
Senior Mod - Jazz
Posts: 102,872
And1: 9,044
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#43 » by DelaneyRudd » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:41 am

2 and 3 are situational. Bojan is healthy, but someone’s getting hurt too. Only one true point. Only changes are Favors and Udoka over Bradley and Davis, our team needs one of last years 2nds-Oni- or this year’s -Hughes- to be a good rotation player.
User avatar
tugs
RealGM
Posts: 14,298
And1: 2,019
Joined: Jul 22, 2010

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#44 » by tugs » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:59 am

Rayjon Tucker?
DelaneyRudd wrote:2 and 3 are situational. Bojan is healthy, but someone’s getting hurt too. Only one true point. Only changes are Favors and Udoka over Bradley and Davis, our team needs one of last years 2nds-Oni- or this year’s -Hughes- to be a good rotation player.
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod - Jazz
Senior Mod - Jazz
Posts: 102,872
And1: 9,044
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#45 » by DelaneyRudd » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:01 am

tugs wrote:Rayjon Tucker?
DelaneyRudd wrote:2 and 3 are situational. Bojan is healthy, but someone’s getting hurt too. Only one true point. Only changes are Favors and Udoka over Bradley and Davis, our team needs one of last years 2nds-Oni- or this year’s -Hughes- to be a good rotation player.

If he’s the one I won’t say I was the one who predicted it, but I’ll be happy as a clam.
User avatar
tugs
RealGM
Posts: 14,298
And1: 2,019
Joined: Jul 22, 2010

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#46 » by tugs » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:06 am

DelaneyRudd wrote:
tugs wrote:Rayjon Tucker?
DelaneyRudd wrote:2 and 3 are situational. Bojan is healthy, but someone’s getting hurt too. Only one true point. Only changes are Favors and Udoka over Bradley and Davis, our team needs one of last years 2nds-Oni- or this year’s -Hughes- to be a good rotation player.

If he’s the one I won’t say I was the one who predicted it, but I’ll be happy as a clam.
Brantley looks promising but basing on bubble play, Tucker looks to be more ready. Has a good chemistry with Clarkson and Mudiay
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 12,528
And1: 5,234
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#47 » by Catchall » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:39 pm

I'm just realizing that Favors is a better fit to play off of Mike Conley than Rudy is. Bringing Favors back should help Mike play more of the same role he did in Memphis.
User avatar
jazzfan1971
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 36,712
And1: 5,448
Joined: Jul 16, 2001
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#48 » by jazzfan1971 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:22 pm

Im very happy to see Clarkson return. He is a difference maker and i was worried somsomesomsomeosomsomesomsomeonsomsomesomsomeosomsomesomsomeone would outbid us.

Favors is just meh for me. He will be ok if heheahehealheheahehealtheheahehealheheahehealthheheahehealheheahehealtheheahehealheheahehealthy but not much else.

Sorry for typos my phone is wigging out.
"Thibs called back and wanted more picks," said Jorge Sedano. "And Pat Riley, literally, I was told, called him a mother-bleeper and hung up the phone."
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod - Jazz
Senior Mod - Jazz
Posts: 102,872
And1: 9,044
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#49 » by DelaneyRudd » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:54 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:Im very happy to see Clarkson return. He is a difference maker and i was worried somsomesomsomeosomsomesomsomeonsomsomesomsomeosomsomesomsomeone would outbid us.

Favors is just meh for me. He will be ok if heheahehealheheahehealtheheahehealheheahehealthheheahehealheheahehealtheheahehealheheahehealthy but not much else.

Sorry for typos my phone is wigging out.

I was trying to sing your post to Moving Out (Anthony’s Song).
User avatar
CAE15
Analyst
Posts: 3,533
And1: 450
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: Defending Trey Burke
   

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#50 » by CAE15 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:38 am

DelaneyRudd wrote:
jazzfan1971 wrote:Im very happy to see Clarkson return. He is a difference maker and i was worried somsomesomsomeosomsomesomsomeonsomsomesomsomeosomsomesomsomeone would outbid us.

Favors is just meh for me. He will be ok if heheahehealheheahehealtheheahehealheheahehealthheheahehealheheahehealtheheahehealheheahehealthy but not much else.

Sorry for typos my phone is wigging out.

I was trying to sing your post to Moving Out (Anthony’s Song).
Hahahaha

Sent from my SM-N950U using RealGM mobile app
Image
Hoops Addict
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,399
And1: 82
Joined: Apr 18, 2011

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#51 » by Hoops Addict » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:01 pm

Favors has a significant effect on the defense.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/favorde01.html#per_poss::none

124 to 103...that is his Per 100 plays.....offensive to defensive rating .......the last year he was with the Jazz.....and 2.9 blocks per game? Nice.

Even with New Orleans his Per 100 plays rating was 126 to 109.

I hope his defense will make a big difference, especially since Bogey and our good shooters give us both offense and defense.

I believe 2 years ago we were a top 4 defense, then after the catastrophe of the Conley trade we were about 15th in defense.
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#52 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:28 pm

We still weren't able to to get past the second round with Gobert+Favors during all the time we had them the first time. I don't think we'll get different results this time either. We're just treading water.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 19,637
And1: 6,268
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#53 » by babyjax13 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:29 pm

If we had Favors backing up Rudy we win the Denver series - even without Bojan. I wasn't a huge fan of what we did in the draft, but this team significantly improved with that pickup. Interested to see if we maybe try to bring back Mudiay.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#54 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:41 pm

babyjax13 wrote:If we had Favors backing up Rudy we win the Denver series - even without Bojan. I wasn't a huge fan of what we did in the draft, but this team significantly improved with that pickup. Interested to see if we maybe try to bring back Mudiay.

Denver had some injured and missing players too (Harris and Barton). And we'd still also had to get past the Clippers. And we already had Gobert+Favors before and didn't get past the second round, so I don't see why this time things will be different.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,118
And1: 5,800
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#55 » by KqWIN » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:55 pm

That DEN series was on a razors edge. Both teams were missing players, it was played in a bubble, the game was lost on a last second shot that almost went...Come on now. I know Inigo loves misery, but of course that series could have ended up differently. Especially with different rosters this time around.
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#56 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:19 pm

KqWIN wrote:That DEN series was on a razors edge. Both teams were missing players, it was played in a bubble, the game was lost on a last second shot that almost went...Come on now. I know Inigo loves misery, but of course that series could have ended up differently. Especially with different rosters this time around.

Of course it could have ended differently, but it also could have ended with a DEN win anyways. Yes, the game was played in a bubble, but both teams were subjected to this so I don't think it really matters--this particular point is a wash (in fact, it may have benefited the Jazz because the Nuggets would have had home-court advantage in regular circumstances). The thing is, that even if we did manage to go past DEN, we'd still have to face the Clippers, so we'd still be unlikely to move on.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,118
And1: 5,800
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#57 » by KqWIN » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:37 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
KqWIN wrote:That DEN series was on a razors edge. Both teams were missing players, it was played in a bubble, the game was lost on a last second shot that almost went...Come on now. I know Inigo loves misery, but of course that series could have ended up differently. Especially with different rosters this time around.

Of course it could have ended differently, but it also could have ended with a DEN win anyways. Yes, the game was played in a bubble, but both teams were subjected to this so I don't think it really matters--this particular point is a wash (in fact, it may have benefited the Jazz because the Nuggets would have had home-court advantage in regular circumstances). The thing is, that even if we did manage to go past DEN, we'd still have to face the Clippers, so we'd still be unlikely to move on.


We were an 8 second violation from sweeping the team the beat the Clippers. My point is, it was unlikely that we beat the Nuggets. It also wasn't unlikely that we beat the Clippers. These series are so damn close, the assertion that we couldn't have won or that it was unlikely is unreasonable.

It would be the equivalent of saying, "I don't know how DEN can beat us" had Conley's shot rimmed in. That would be ridiculous.
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#58 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:52 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
KqWIN wrote:That DEN series was on a razors edge. Both teams were missing players, it was played in a bubble, the game was lost on a last second shot that almost went...Come on now. I know Inigo loves misery, but of course that series could have ended up differently. Especially with different rosters this time around.

Of course it could have ended differently, but it also could have ended with a DEN win anyways. Yes, the game was played in a bubble, but both teams were subjected to this so I don't think it really matters--this particular point is a wash (in fact, it may have benefited the Jazz because the Nuggets would have had home-court advantage in regular circumstances). The thing is, that even if we did manage to go past DEN, we'd still have to face the Clippers, so we'd still be unlikely to move on.


We were an 8 second violation from sweeping the team the beat the Clippers. My point is, it was unlikely that we beat the Nuggets. It also wasn't unlikely that we beat the Clippers. These series are so damn close, the assertion that we couldn't have won or that it was unlikely is unreasonable.

It would be the equivalent of saying, "I don't know how DEN can beat us" had Conley's shot rimmed in. That would be ridiculous.

Not saying we couldn't but I am saying unlikely, which I don't think is unreasonable. We weren't favorites to beat the Clippers had we matched up with them, which essentially means that beating them in a series is more unlikely than it is likely. That's what being favorites and underdogs mean (unless, you're saying we would have been favorites to win a series vs the Clippers?).

I also don't really agree with the framing of being the team that was 8 seconds away from beating the team that beat the Clippers. While it's technically true, it really doesn't mean much. It's like saying (I'm making this up, just to illustrate) that the 19-win Cavs beat us and we beat the Lakers, so the Cavs could beat the Lakers (not the perfect analogy, I know). Fact is, it comes down to matchups and the Nuggets were a better matchup vs the Clippers than we would have been. They were more equipped to deal with Leonard and PG13. Just because we almost beat the Nuggets doesn't mean we would have beat the Clippers--it's a different matchup. Would it have been impossible? No. But it would have been unlikely. I don't think we would have made it a 7-game series either.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 15,118
And1: 5,800
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#59 » by KqWIN » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:03 pm

I'm saying it's ridiculous to say with certainty that the Jazz couldn't beat the Nuggets or the Clippers. These teams are all in the same class. That's why the series we're so close. Unlikely to me would be the Jazz beating the Warriors. Unlikely isn't an underdog beating a favorite, which happens every year. DEN, UTA, LAC are all in the same class. Losing to a team in a close 7 game series isn't a death sentence.

I love you Inigo, but your thirst for tanking has clouded your judgement :lol: There's more to life than having draft picks and pretending that picks means you're on a path to a championship.
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 13,835
And1: 5,729
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#60 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:29 pm

KqWIN wrote:I'm saying it's ridiculous to say with certainty that the Jazz couldn't beat the Nuggets or the Clippers. These teams are all in the same class. That's why the series we're so close. Unlikely to me would be the Jazz beating the Warriors. Unlikely isn't an underdog beating a favorite, which happens every year. DEN, UTA, LAC are all in the same class. Losing to a team in a close 7 game series isn't a death sentence.


I think we have different interpretations of the word 'unlikely.' Which is weird. And again, re-visit my previous comments: I didn't say the Jazz couldn't win, I said they were unlikely to win. Like, multiple times.

KqWIN wrote:I love you Inigo, but your thirst for tanking has clouded your judgement :lol: There's more to life than having draft picks and pretending that picks means you're on a path to a championship.


Yes, there is this - where the Jazz are now and have been for several seasons. I hate it. It's causing me to lose interest.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.

Return to Utah Jazz