Favors and Clarkson return

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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#21 » by KqWIN » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:21 am

Solid moves clouded by the disappointment of the draft. In actuality it’s probably not a big deal as we’re making it...but it’s frustrating nonetheless.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#22 » by dautjazz » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:01 am

CAE15 wrote:Conley will come out at about 5 to 6 minutes in.. Donovan will shift over to point. Mike will come back in and help run the 2nd unit

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I'm fine with that
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How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#23 » by Daddy 801 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:40 am

babyjax13 wrote:
sip wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Bledsoe is an all NBA defender we could get for Conley
We don't want Bledsoe. We need to add a defender with some legit size and length.

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Bledsoe has a 6-8 wingspan, same size as George Hill and other combo guards like that, and is an elite athlete. Not sure you are going to get a better defender. Stick Bledsoe on shooting guards (can switch on wings) and Donovan on point guards.


Bledsoe is not the type of guy I am thinking about. I am suggesting a Conley for a 3&d type player or a stretch 4. If we include picks we should be able to get someone as good, just a different role.

Tobias Harris, Otto Porter, Kevin Love....

I dunno who but someone probably fits better than Conley and adds size.

Sidenote....I opened the nba trade machine to take a look around and think about players who might fit and I realized that every single team in the west is going to be good. Only team in obvious tank mode is OKC and maybe Houston if they unload Harden. Having a big long tough team this year will be a benefit. Guys are going to be exhausted in the west.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#24 » by KqWIN » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:46 am

I would love a Porter for Conley swap. It would also put us far enough under the tax to use the full BAE on a backup PG. This roster would be terrific:

C Gobert
F Porter
F Bogdanovic
G O'Neale
G Mitchell

C Favors
F Niang
F Ingles
G Clarkson
G Dunn

C Azubuike
F Morgan
F Brantley
G Hughes
G Oni
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#25 » by KqWIN » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:57 am

Regardless of what happens, we have a really strong 8 going into the playoffs. Knock on wood for good health.

Niang isn't terrible as a 9th guy, and there's potential for Brantley or Morgan to surpass him.

We'd still need another guard/wing to step up and play some minutes at some point during the season. Our 15th roster spot should throw another name in the Oni/Hughes competition for minutes.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#26 » by FJS » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:23 am

Good movements at right prices
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#27 » by Charlie_S » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:04 am

So, unless something drastic and unexpected happens with Gobert, Azubuike is going to be a long-term project in the mold of Bradley in 2017 and not see meaningful playing time for a while, barring injuries. Hopefully it will yield better results than Tony's selection.

Not a lot to say about the signings, that's pretty much the expected amount for both players. Obviously happy to see Derrick come back, he will be a great backup and he'll benefit from playing fewer minutes. I don't expect to see him and Rudy playing a lot together this time around but without another non-shooter on the court it can be an interesting situational option.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#28 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:05 am

While Clarkson and Favors were signed to reasonable contracts, I can't say I like what the Jazz are doing. It just feels like retreading and trying the same thing all over again. Is this a 50+ win team? Yes. Is it going past the second round of the playoff? Probably not.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#29 » by TNJazz » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:44 pm

[/quote]

Imagine a 2nd unit with Favors/Bojan/ONeale/Clarkson/Mitchell for a few minutes, that would drive opponents crazy. I know Bojan and Mitchell are starters, but it makes sense to have some scoring threats alongside Clarkson, sort of like how AD or Lebron are always in the game, they never take out both.[/quote]

That would be a fun unit to watch and would give opponents fits. I love the additions of two of my favorite recent Jazz payers. Who doesn't love Favs? and JC made a huge splash last year. Trying to be an optimist, I think Conley will be much better from the get go and hopefully this team will gel early.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#30 » by stitches » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:09 pm

I love Favs and I think he absolutely deserves every penny he gets out of that deal. I guess none of those off-season decisions are horrendous on their own... just the totality of them is freaking attrocious. We spent ALL our mid-high level resources on back up center and 3d string center. It's great having competent backup center, but this should not be the level of priority this is. Not even close.

I love that we will have quite possibly the best backup center in the game. I think it will help matching up against Jokic and possibly against the Lakers bigs, so it's not insignificant, but IMO we missed a chance to make more significant gains on the wing. Now we have to pray that Oni is everything they believe he is when just 2 months ago Quin didn't dare put him on the floor against DEN.

About Clarkson - again...nothing against him personally. He played well for us too and it's probably better to keep the asset than lose him for nothing, but then again... is he really an asset on this deal? This seems like one of those deals that DLZ will have to give up another first to dump in 2 years time. I think it's an overpay and I would have preferred we get a defensive wing instead but oh well... at least we are no losing a productive player.

Overall we kept our 6th man and we got a great backup center who might have some hidden value for the playoffs besides the value he gives us in the regular season. I just can't shake the feeling that we missed an opportunity once again. This gets compounded by the now even more head-scratching draft.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#31 » by babyjax13 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:56 pm

stitches wrote:I love Favs and I think he absolutely deserves every penny he gets out of that deal. I guess none of those off-season decisions are horrendous on their own... just the totality of them is freaking attrocious. We spent ALL our mid-high level resources on back up center and 3d string center. It's great having competent backup center, but this should not be the level of priority this is. Not even close.

I love that we will have quite possibly the best backup center in the game. I think it will help matching up against Jokic and possibly against the Lakers bigs, so it's not insignificant, but IMO we missed a chance to make more significant gains on the wing. Now we have to pray that Oni is everything they believe he is when just 2 months ago Quin didn't dare put him on the floor against DEN.

About Clarkson - again...nothing against him personally. He played well for us too and it's probably better to keep the asset than lose him for nothing, but then again... is he really an asset on this deal? This seems like one of those deals that DLZ will have to give up another first to dump in 2 years time. I think it's an overpay and I would have preferred we get a defensive wing instead but oh well... at least we are no losing a productive player.

Overall we kept our 6th man and we got a great backup center who might have some hidden value for the playoffs besides the value he gives us in the regular season. I just can't shake the feeling that we missed an opportunity once again. This gets compounded by the now even more head-scratching draft.


I think we are grooming Oni to get more minutes when Conley leaves. I'm really excited by him - had him graded out as a late first in last year's draft and when he got time he looked good, and seems to have improved quickly. But...yah...the draft. Still hate it. If you value continuity, why not draft Leandro Bolmaro to eventually replace a very similar player in Ingles?
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#32 » by sip » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:50 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
stitches wrote:I love Favs and I think he absolutely deserves every penny he gets out of that deal. I guess none of those off-season decisions are horrendous on their own... just the totality of them is freaking attrocious. We spent ALL our mid-high level resources on back up center and 3d string center. It's great having competent backup center, but this should not be the level of priority this is. Not even close.

I love that we will have quite possibly the best backup center in the game. I think it will help matching up against Jokic and possibly against the Lakers bigs, so it's not insignificant, but IMO we missed a chance to make more significant gains on the wing. Now we have to pray that Oni is everything they believe he is when just 2 months ago Quin didn't dare put him on the floor against DEN.

About Clarkson - again...nothing against him personally. He played well for us too and it's probably better to keep the asset than lose him for nothing, but then again... is he really an asset on this deal? This seems like one of those deals that DLZ will have to give up another first to dump in 2 years time. I think it's an overpay and I would have preferred we get a defensive wing instead but oh well... at least we are no losing a productive player.

Overall we kept our 6th man and we got a great backup center who might have some hidden value for the playoffs besides the value he gives us in the regular season. I just can't shake the feeling that we missed an opportunity once again. This gets compounded by the now even more head-scratching draft.


I think we are grooming Oni for when Mitchell leaves. I'm really excited by him - had him graded out as a late first in last year's draft and when he got time he looked good, and seems to have improved quickly. But...yah...the draft. Still hate it. If you value continuity, why not draft Leandro Bolmaro to eventually replace a very similar player in Ingles?
Oni being groomed for when Mitchell leaves? Not a shot in hell. Oni hasn't shown enough of anything to be groomed for anything.

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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#33 » by babyjax13 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:03 pm

sip wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
stitches wrote:I love Favs and I think he absolutely deserves every penny he gets out of that deal. I guess none of those off-season decisions are horrendous on their own... just the totality of them is freaking attrocious. We spent ALL our mid-high level resources on back up center and 3d string center. It's great having competent backup center, but this should not be the level of priority this is. Not even close.

I love that we will have quite possibly the best backup center in the game. I think it will help matching up against Jokic and possibly against the Lakers bigs, so it's not insignificant, but IMO we missed a chance to make more significant gains on the wing. Now we have to pray that Oni is everything they believe he is when just 2 months ago Quin didn't dare put him on the floor against DEN.

About Clarkson - again...nothing against him personally. He played well for us too and it's probably better to keep the asset than lose him for nothing, but then again... is he really an asset on this deal? This seems like one of those deals that DLZ will have to give up another first to dump in 2 years time. I think it's an overpay and I would have preferred we get a defensive wing instead but oh well... at least we are no losing a productive player.

Overall we kept our 6th man and we got a great backup center who might have some hidden value for the playoffs besides the value he gives us in the regular season. I just can't shake the feeling that we missed an opportunity once again. This gets compounded by the now even more head-scratching draft.


I think we are grooming Oni for when Mitchell leaves. I'm really excited by him - had him graded out as a late first in last year's draft and when he got time he looked good, and seems to have improved quickly. But...yah...the draft. Still hate it. If you value continuity, why not draft Leandro Bolmaro to eventually replace a very similar player in Ingles?
Oni being groomed for when Mitchell leaves? Not a shot in hell. Oni hasn't shown enough of anything to be groomed for anything.

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Mind fart, meant Conley
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#34 » by Daddy 801 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:56 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:While Clarkson and Favors were signed to reasonable contracts, I can't say I like what the Jazz are doing. It just feels like retreading and trying the same thing all over again. Is this a 50+ win team? Yes. Is it going past the second round of the playoff? Probably not.


If the Jazz had Favors instead of Bradley and a healthy Bojan the series against Denver would not have gone to a game seven. And I think they would have beaten the Clippers. Sure, the Jazz would probably have fallen to the Lakers because LeBron is LeBron. Without Favors they would have been decimated against LA. LA had three centers to throw at Rudy plus LeBron driving the lane. No way Gobert could have handled that alone. He would have been in foul trouble and LeBron would have driven the lane over and over against Bradley. With Favors they would of had a fighters chance and at least given Gobert some help. Favors has a decent history of guarding AD as well.

Having said all that, next year is next year and Denver, Clips, and LA will all look different. So it's a retroactive argument that doesn't really apply because teams will be different. But Favs is good in the playoffs and the game slows down and becomes about defense and having two bigs is going to help IMO.

I agree with others that the Jazz need wing defense. It is the one glaring hole. They needed to give Rudy help and now they need to give Royce help. Coney is the easiest one to switch out. Move Mitchell to PG. Start Royce. Find a big strong 3&D player. There has to be someone the Jazz can go after. Hard nose defense and a 34+ 3 point shooter. I dunno....is Rudy Gay have any life left in him? Trevor Ariza any good still?
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#35 » by sip » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:50 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:While Clarkson and Favors were signed to reasonable contracts, I can't say I like what the Jazz are doing. It just feels like retreading and trying the same thing all over again. Is this a 50+ win team? Yes. Is it going past the second round of the playoff? Probably not.


If the Jazz had Favors instead of Bradley and a healthy Bojan the series against Denver would not have gone to a game seven. And I think they would have beaten the Clippers. Sure, the Jazz would probably have fallen to the Lakers because LeBron is LeBron. Without Favors they would have been decimated against LA. LA had three centers to throw at Rudy plus LeBron driving the lane. No way Gobert could have handled that alone. He would have been in foul trouble and LeBron would have driven the lane over and over against Bradley. With Favors they would of had a fighters chance and at least given Gobert some help. Favors has a decent history of guarding AD as well.

Having said all that, next year is next year and Denver, Clips, and LA will all look different. So it's a retroactive argument that doesn't really apply because teams will be different. But Favs is good in the playoffs and the game slows down and becomes about defense and having two bigs is going to help IMO.

I agree with others that the Jazz need wing defense. It is the one glaring hole. They needed to give Rudy help and now they need to give Royce help. Coney is the easiest one to switch out. Move Mitchell to PG. Start Royce. Find a big strong 3&D player. There has to be someone the Jazz can go after. Hard nose defense and a 34+ 3 point shooter. I dunno....is Rudy Gay have any life left in him? Trevor Ariza any good still?
And if the nugs had a healthy Gary Harris to start the series and Will Barton it wouldn't have gone to 7. Even an extremely rusty Gary Harris made a huge difference for them the last 2 games.

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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#36 » by KqWIN » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:00 pm

The Jazz did their overhaul last season with Conley, Bogdanovic, Davis, Green, Mudiay ect. Wasn't much to work with this off-season, they already blew their wad.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#37 » by Daddy 801 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:13 pm

sip wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:While Clarkson and Favors were signed to reasonable contracts, I can't say I like what the Jazz are doing. It just feels like retreading and trying the same thing all over again. Is this a 50+ win team? Yes. Is it going past the second round of the playoff? Probably not.


If the Jazz had Favors instead of Bradley and a healthy Bojan the series against Denver would not have gone to a game seven. And I think they would have beaten the Clippers. Sure, the Jazz would probably have fallen to the Lakers because LeBron is LeBron. Without Favors they would have been decimated against LA. LA had three centers to throw at Rudy plus LeBron driving the lane. No way Gobert could have handled that alone. He would have been in foul trouble and LeBron would have driven the lane over and over against Bradley. With Favors they would of had a fighters chance and at least given Gobert some help. Favors has a decent history of guarding AD as well.

Having said all that, next year is next year and Denver, Clips, and LA will all look different. So it's a retroactive argument that doesn't really apply because teams will be different. But Favs is good in the playoffs and the game slows down and becomes about defense and having two bigs is going to help IMO.

I agree with others that the Jazz need wing defense. It is the one glaring hole. They needed to give Rudy help and now they need to give Royce help. Coney is the easiest one to switch out. Move Mitchell to PG. Start Royce. Find a big strong 3&D player. There has to be someone the Jazz can go after. Hard nose defense and a 34+ 3 point shooter. I dunno....is Rudy Gay have any life left in him? Trevor Ariza any good still?
And if the nugs had a healthy Gary Harris to start the series and Will Barton it wouldn't have gone to 7. Even an extremely rusty Gary Harris made a huge difference for them the last 2 games.

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Totally fair point. I’m not sure if they were full strength and we were full strength with a Favors they would have won. But that’s beyond a fair point.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#38 » by Hoops Addict » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:42 am

I love D FAvors.

We were bad in defense last year without any power forward.

With Doka we have 3 big tough guys.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#39 » by Hoops Addict » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:44 am

It was also unfair to rely on Rudy to provide all the defense. Now we have the old defense, which was very good......and with Bogey and Clarkson some offensive firepower too. WE will be better than last year.
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Re: Favors and Clarkson return 

Post#40 » by Lava Rock Kid » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:47 am

Crunch 99 wrote:David Locke was ready to go with his pro Jazz organization spin on the signing of DFav and Clarkson, and he sounded reasonably convincing. I am excited to see this team compete.

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Earlier in the week he said it wasn’t a good idea to bring back favors because we couldn’t score with him and gobert on the floor

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