Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread

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Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#1 » by stitches » Tue Dec 1, 2020 5:59 pm

Well, here's the thread to post Jazz related things this coming season... things that probably don't deserve their own thread, but are worth posting nonetheless.

I start with this video of Donovan(and Royce and some other Jazz benchwarmers) working out in the off-season:

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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#2 » by Catchall » Tue Dec 1, 2020 6:50 pm

stitches wrote:Well, here's the thread to post Jazz related things this coming season... things that probably don't deserve their own thread, but are worth posting nonetheless.

I start with this video of Donovan(and Royce and some other Jazz benchwarmers) working out in the off-season:



Nice to see Brantley and Royce working out too. NWG too, I guess.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#3 » by stitches » Tue Dec 1, 2020 10:15 pm

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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#4 » by KqWIN » Fri Dec 4, 2020 6:51 pm

I think Stitches is onto something with Udoka's rookie scale contract. If he signs for 80%, we can cut NWG or Morgan to get under the tax.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#5 » by babyjax13 » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:41 pm

I'll be honest, I actually kind of liked Goss when he got some burn in the bubble. Reminds me a lot of Neto in terms of someone that just seems to make good decisions and not hurt you on the court.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#6 » by babyjax13 » Fri Dec 4, 2020 7:52 pm

Donovan's catch and shoot release looks quicker
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#7 » by KqWIN » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:16 pm

babyjax13 wrote:I'll be honest, I actually kind of liked Goss when he got some burn in the bubble. Reminds me a lot of Neto in terms of someone that just seems to make good decisions and not hurt you on the court.


His G-League numbers are actually not bad. Good finisher in the paint, high steal rate, doesn't turn the ball over. I just can't get over the fact that he looks like he's playing in quick sand whenever I've seen him.

It's very to overlook someone for their physical attributes. There are more NWG's that became steals than Rayjon Tuckers.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#8 » by KqWIN » Fri Dec 4, 2020 8:19 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Donovan's catch and shoot release looks quicker


I hope he uses it more this season. There's no reason why he should be getting so much of his offense in PnR's. I wish Quin would use him more like Hayward or even Bogey. Getting him some freebies in catch and shoot situations or cuts would go along way in improving his efficiency and conserving energy.

I still think Donovan can be a great defender. That's who he was as a prospect and we saw it with team USA. I think he just spends too much energy and focus on offense. The game can be so much easier for him.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#9 » by Tom349 » Sat Dec 5, 2020 12:10 am

KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Donovan's catch and shoot release looks quicker


I hope he uses it more this season. There's no reason why he should be getting so much of his offense in PnR's. I wish Quin would use him more like Hayward or even Bogey. Getting him some freebies in catch and shoot situations or cuts would go along way in improving his efficiency and conserving energy.

I still think Donovan can be a great defender. That's who he was as a prospect and we saw it with team USA. I think he just spends too much energy and focus on offense. The game can be so much easier for him.


I miss the days of Hayward receiving the back door lob. Was such a simple play that regularly caught teams out. Not sure why the same play couldn't be run for Donovan.

As for NWG, he has a very high TS% for someone who shot fairly average from 3 and the three throw line on low attempts. I don't have the exact breakdown of how he scored most of his point but from I've seen he scored a lot on floaters which I presume is the reason he hasn't been cut. I know a lot of us don't like the shot but if teams decide to stick to Gobert and not give up the lob than it becomes an important shot to have.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#10 » by KqWIN » Sat Dec 5, 2020 12:30 am

Tom349 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Donovan's catch and shoot release looks quicker


I hope he uses it more this season. There's no reason why he should be getting so much of his offense in PnR's. I wish Quin would use him more like Hayward or even Bogey. Getting him some freebies in catch and shoot situations or cuts would go along way in improving his efficiency and conserving energy.

I still think Donovan can be a great defender. That's who he was as a prospect and we saw it with team USA. I think he just spends too much energy and focus on offense. The game can be so much easier for him.


I miss the days of Hayward receiving the back door lob. Was such a simple play that regularly caught teams out. Not sure why the same play couldn't be run for Donovan.

As for NWG, he has a very high TS% for someone who shot fairly average from 3 and the three throw line on low attempts. I don't have the exact breakdown of how he scored most of his point but from I've seen he scored a lot on floaters which I presume is the reason he hasn't been cut. I know a lot of us don't like the shot but if teams decide to stick to Gobert and not give up the lob than it becomes an important shot to have.


We did run that play for Mitchell awhile back but went away from it when teams scouted it. I don't think we need to 100% money plays like that for Mitchell, but maybe get him in situations besides dribbling at the top and running a PnR with Gobert. It's effective and he's good at scoring there, but it still forces him to work hard for offense. I really think Mitchell has potential moving off screens and cutting off the weak side when his man is focused on the ball. But he never moves without the ball.

NWG shot 55% on non restricted area paint shots (aka floaters). That's very good, but it also shows his floater game also shows his limitations as an athlete. He takes more than double the amount of floaters as shots in the restricted area, and he never gets to the line.

I really don't like the idea of Jazz players chasing players because of floaters. There's a reason why our defense is designed to concede those shots, they're bad. It's a real problem when you have 4-5 selfish scorers on the team that seek out the first shot available.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#11 » by zero24gravity » Sat Dec 5, 2020 12:34 am

Just an FYI. Hopefully nothing to worry about. No bubble means this is going to likely be the norm in the NBA this upcoming season.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/260709/Mike-Conley-In-COVID-19-Protocol-Due-To-Close-Contact-With-Positive-Family-Member
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#12 » by babyjax13 » Sat Dec 5, 2020 8:50 pm

What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#13 » by KqWIN » Sat Dec 5, 2020 9:45 pm

babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.



Here's what my mock rotation looks like. Don't expect this to reflect MPG, but what we might expect on any given night.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TW4p56LxLu86x5NrG5vFMLQb1OUFVmMQlg6MhCu7IAs/edit?usp=sharing

Highlights:
- Ingles and Favors start off the bench
- Conley gets the early sub and reentry with the starting lineup
- No minutes at the 4 for Favors, think it will be situational
- Niang is the 9th guy in a 9 man rotation. Don't think 10 guys will play day to day
- Mitchell + Bogey + Gobert have tethered minutes for the most part. Equalish segments to start and finish halves.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#14 » by GobertReport » Sun Dec 6, 2020 1:23 am

babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.


Ingles plays like **** off the bench though.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#15 » by babyjax13 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 1:58 am

GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.


Ingles plays like **** off the bench though.


Ingles plays terribly when he has no PnR partner. Now he has one off the bench.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#16 » by Catchall » Sun Dec 6, 2020 4:04 am

babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.



Conley / Clarkson / Williams-Goss / Forrest
Mitchell / Oni
Royce / Ingles / Hughes
Bogdanovic / Niang / Morgan / Brantley
Gobert / Favors / Udunka
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#17 » by GobertReport » Sun Dec 6, 2020 4:57 am

babyjax13 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.


Ingles plays like **** off the bench though.


Ingles plays terribly when he has no PnR partner. Now he has one off the bench.


Sorry but Ingles can’t mentally take coming off the bench.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#18 » by babyjax13 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 4:58 am

KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.



Here's what my mock rotation looks like. Don't expect this to reflect MPG, but what we might expect on any given night.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TW4p56LxLu86x5NrG5vFMLQb1OUFVmMQlg6MhCu7IAs/edit?usp=sharing

Highlights:
- Ingles and Favors start off the bench
- Conley gets the early sub and reentry with the starting lineup
- No minutes at the 4 for Favors, think it will be situational
- Niang is the 9th guy in a 9 man rotation. Don't think 10 guys will play day to day
- Mitchell + Bogey + Gobert have tethered minutes for the most part. Equalish segments to start and finish halves.


Good point on the 9 man rotation. I think Quin is going to experiment to see what works, but my feeling is that a lineup with two versatile ball handlers + an elite perimeter shooter can maximize Favors/Gobert because we can run PnR actions with off-ball screens. I think we will settle on starting both Favors and Gobert with Bojan because the threat of Bojan getting free from an off-ball screen is enough to pull out a defender on a non-spacer, and it allows us to have elite defense during those stretches. I don't think it will be our main lineup, but I do think that we will start the game with it, and bring it back to start the first half or when the other team's offense is really flowing and we want to disrupt it. So reducing to a 9-man everyday rotation, I think that looks like:

Gobert 34/Favors 14
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 16/[O'neale-Niang] 24
Bogdanovic 16/Ingles 24 (avoiding time w/Bogey)/O'neale 8
Mitchell 20/Clarkson 28
Conley 32/Mitchell 16

Which is just brutally awesome. Niang is the only non-starting caliber player in that rotation, and he's still a decent player that can give us a boost with his shooting in short minutes.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#19 » by babyjax13 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 5:00 am

GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
Ingles plays like **** off the bench though.


Ingles plays terribly when he has no PnR partner. Now he has one off the bench.


Sorry but Ingles can’t mentally take coming off the bench.


I don't think that's the case at all. The problem was never that he couldn't mentally do it, it's that putting him on the bench took away his best tools for generating offense. With Favors, the PnR is back, and we have a deep enough bench now that Ingles can get catch and shoot looks rather than having to be on-ball 100% of the time.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#20 » by KqWIN » Sun Dec 6, 2020 5:37 am

babyjax13 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:What do people think the depth chart ends up looking like? My guess

Gobert 34/Favors 14/Morgan
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 22/Niang 10/Royce 8/Morgan
Bogdanovic 8/Ingles 24/Royce 12
Mitchell 14/Clarkson 26/Oni 8
Conley 28/Mitchell 20/NWG
Gleague development: Hughes, Brantley, Azubuike

I also love our depth. Clarkson, Ingles, and Favors (if he ends up coming off the bench) could all be in the running for 6th man.



Here's what my mock rotation looks like. Don't expect this to reflect MPG, but what we might expect on any given night.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TW4p56LxLu86x5NrG5vFMLQb1OUFVmMQlg6MhCu7IAs/edit?usp=sharing

Highlights:
- Ingles and Favors start off the bench
- Conley gets the early sub and reentry with the starting lineup
- No minutes at the 4 for Favors, think it will be situational
- Niang is the 9th guy in a 9 man rotation. Don't think 10 guys will play day to day
- Mitchell + Bogey + Gobert have tethered minutes for the most part. Equalish segments to start and finish halves.


Good point on the 9 man rotation. I think Quin is going to experiment to see what works, but my feeling is that a lineup with two versatile ball handlers + an elite perimeter shooter can maximize Favors/Gobert because we can run PnR actions with off-ball screens. I think we will settle on starting both Favors and Gobert with Bojan because the threat of Bojan getting free from an off-ball screen is enough to pull out a defender on a non-spacer, and it allows us to have elite defense during those stretches. I don't think it will be our main lineup, but I do think that we will start the game with it, and bring it back to start the first half or when the other team's offense is really flowing and we want to disrupt it. So reducing to a 9-man everyday rotation, I think that looks like:

Gobert 34/Favors 14
Favors 8/Bogdanovic 16/[O'neale-Niang] 24
Bogdanovic 16/Ingles 24 (avoiding time w/Bogey)/O'neale 8
Mitchell 20/Clarkson 28
Conley 32/Mitchell 16

Which is just brutally awesome. Niang is the only non-starting caliber player in that rotation, and he's still a decent player that can give us a boost with his shooting in short minutes.


I think Quin will try to sneak in Oni from time to time, but we won't need to rely on him. I think it's just fine to play Conley and Ingles 30ish minutes on any given night. But if you want to monitor their minutes, Oni should be next in line to get minutes.

I don't think Niang will play too many minutes, but I'm confident in him being a regular rotation player. Once Jeff Green was gone, we were +4.6 with Niang on the court. This was the highest of any bench player on the team. His shooting is a proven, valuable commodity for the bench units.

I really think our bench units are going to great. When I was running through the rotation, I had the minutes with Rudy+Donovan+Bogey sitting mostly consist of lineups of Conley+Clarkson+Ingles+Niang/O'Neale+Favors. That kind of lineup should dominate second units.

The Jazz had the second most effective starting lineup in the league last year, second only to the Bucks. Combine that with a good bench...it's hard to not feel good about this team.

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