Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread

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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#61 » by MTJazzv3 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:39 am

Crunch 99 wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
Main thing that jumps out to me is their minutes played versus the amount of points scored. If they continue to let the three fly like they have been the starters are going to get a lot of rest. They will have games where they are up by 20 in the fourth and just play their bench guys. That’s a wonderful thing in may regards. They will be rested, bench will develop, confidence builder, and give coaching staff to evaluate third string guys. I’m seriously pumped for the season. All the criticisms myself and others have made for a decade seem to be addressed. Finally playing with pace, making the extra pass, and getting up the 3 ball.


Bizarre the Jazz actually are playing a modern NBA offense this decade, but I love it! Dudes are getting open 3 looks all night, due in part because defenders have to stay honest with the Gobert/Favors lob threat for 48 minutes. Very pleasant bench surprises coming from Oni, Stephens and Forrest, who all look way better than buried at the end of the bench types, and I've always had a soft spot for Yogi's game, (can score in bunches). Ridiculously deep bench roster this year that was the Achilles heel last year. I agree that the Jazz are actually in the hunt for the top seed, depending on how the covid season/load management plays out with the LA teams.

I think the stealth break-out candidate for meaningful bench rotation minutes will be Stephens - he's playing like a mature first rounder and has obvious game/scoring feel - sending in Clarkson and Stephens for ridiculous instant offense could be a game changer.


I am probably missing something, but I don't see a guy named Stephens on the roster. Do you mean Hughes?


Doh! Yes. Peak 2020 brain fog lol. Good to see you around Crunch, long time. This Jazz roster is intriguing as hell - haven't felt like the Jazz could get to the WCF in like a decade but they are end-to-end bursting with potential this year. I'm impressed with the Jazz deep sourcing of potential NBA talent in the the second round/undrafted and then farm system. Oni, Brantley, Morgan - these guys can make other rosters and speaks well to the FO nose for talent and after Bambi, Enes, others maybe its time Jazz struck some gold. This team healthy is going to give opposing teams headaches most nights, especially in a compressed marathon season during a global pandemic.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#62 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:33 am

babyjax13 wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:I see where Channing Frye thinks the jazz are second best team to start the season? In west, So much for flying under his radar. Man they got going and flat out smoked the Clips tonight. Smoked. Raining three...


Clippers were with us it looks like till they had a small blip in the second with Goerge and Leonard off the court. That being said, us, the Lakers, and Portland are the only top 8 teams that I think meaningfully improved. I have us third (behind both LA teams) but I could easily see us winning the most games. Going to be a fun year so long as everyone stays happy and healthy.

The blow out was on before there stars went to the bench. Jazz are going to be good.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#63 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:24 am

Obviously it's better to perform well in pre-season than not, but I'm not putting any stock into it. We've all been through this before, and pre-season performance doesn't mean much once the regular season starts. Beating the Clippers in one pre-season game really doesn't excite me.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#64 » by TO11 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:12 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:Obviously it's better to perform well in pre-season than not, but I'm not putting any stock into it. We've all been through this before, and pre-season performance doesn't mean much once the regular season starts. Beating the Clippers in one pre-season game really doesn't excite me.

To be fair though Inigo, has anything the jazz ever done excited you? Kidding of course :)...but really hahaha


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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#65 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:56 am

TO11 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Obviously it's better to perform well in pre-season than not, but I'm not putting any stock into it. We've all been through this before, and pre-season performance doesn't mean much once the regular season starts. Beating the Clippers in one pre-season game really doesn't excite me.

To be fair though Inigo, has anything the jazz ever done excited you? Kidding of course :)...but really hahaha


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I know you're joking, but on a serious note, I have to say I haven't been excited about the Jazz for a long time. They managed the team in a very predictable way, to be the next Memphis Grizzlies, which is something I was warning about for a very long time. To me, it's the worst case scenario--to be stuck in the 'good but not great' tier for the next decade, which is where we are. We've become a good but not great team with a bloated payroll and very little assets, and the management and FO seem intent on riding this for as long as they can (we'll see, maybe Gobert won't extend and it will throw a wrench in their plans).

At this point, pre-season games don't mean much to me. I'm sure we all remember how we had an unbeaten 8-0 team in pre-season with DWill and how that season turned out. Pre-season games are good to get players in shape, but that's about it. I also don't care much about the regular season anymore, we know where we'll end up, roughly (most likely seed 4-6). I care about how far this team can go in the playoffs, and unfortunately, we're still stuck at the same tier we've been in all along, which is a 2nd round exit ceiling.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#66 » by Crunch 99 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:58 pm

My wag: The Jazz have as good a chance to reach the WCF as any team except the Lakers. The Lakers are the sole favorite to get to the WCF and Finals.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#67 » by tugs » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:19 pm

So Rudy got paid
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#68 » by wco81 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:31 pm

I didn’t realize there was a recent ownership change. Sounds like deep pockets for the new owner and he’s certainly proving that he will invest more in the team after paying a lot to buy it.

If he declined to give Gobert a huge extension, that might have been a bad signal to fans. Maybe the purchase price was predicated on the pending big extensions.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#69 » by Daddy 801 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:52 pm

wco81 wrote:I didn’t realize there was a recent ownership change. Sounds like deep pockets for the new owner and he’s certainly proving that he will invest more in the team after paying a lot to buy it.

If he declined to give Gobert a huge extension, that might have been a bad signal to fans. Maybe the purchase price was predicated on the pending big extensions.


I think it is pretty obvious the Millers were waiting to allow Ryan the choice to make on Gobert's contract. Even if the Millers were willing to pay (much less likely IMO) Gobert the contract he received, it is a good look to allow Ryan the opportunity to have his best player given a huge day one of ownership. It's good PR management and will help the transition of ownership. The players clearly now know Ryan will pony up the cash.

And yes, Gobert is the best player on the Jazz. Donovan needs to become that player, but as of now Rudy still is.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#70 » by wco81 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:09 pm

Then again, they said the new owner is a lifelong Jazz fan so maybe he decided more with his heart than his head.

Though I think a rebuild at this point by not retaining a perennial DPOY may have hurt attendance.

But an argument could be made for the Jazz starting again. They haven't had a high lotto pick in 6 years, with Exum being that pick.

They've done well with trades for lower draft picks becoming all star level players. But it's going to be hard for this current core to break through, because the West is so competitive.

That's not to say rebuilding with high lottery picks will change things. But a lot of teams are paying max and super max deals to their best players without a lot of playoffs success.

Either teams haven't figured out the current CBA or there's a lot more money in the league than the NBA and the teams are letting on.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#71 » by Daddy 801 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:42 pm

wco81 wrote:Then again, they said the new owner is a lifelong Jazz fan so maybe he decided more with his heart than his head.

Though I think a rebuild at this point by not retaining a perennial DPOY may have hurt attendance.

But an argument could be made for the Jazz starting again. They haven't had a high lotto pick in 6 years, with Exum being that pick.

They've done well with trades for lower draft picks becoming all star level players. But it's going to be hard for this current core to break through, because the West is so competitive.

That's not to say rebuilding with high lottery picks will change things. But a lot of teams are paying max and super max deals to their best players without a lot of playoffs success.

Either teams haven't figured out the current CBA or there's a lot more money in the league than the NBA and the teams are letting on.


The Lakers are the best team in the west. After that the Jazz are as good as any other team. Barring injuries the second to the seventh best team in the west will come down to health, luck, and schedule. And if the preseason is a true indicator of the style of play the Jazz plan on playing this season they could be a much, much better team than last year. You don't break a team apart that can make it to the western conference finals in the hopes you can get a high lotto pick. That would be terrible management. If Donovan and Gobert don't make it to the WCF in the next three years, then you consider blowing it up.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#72 » by wco81 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:06 am

Mitchell really stepped it up in the bubble.

He had a monster series in terms of efficiency, way above his career averages.

So did Murray for the Nuggets.

And actually Lebron and AD shot the lights out compared to their career averages.

There may be something to the theory that the bubble resulted in optimal performance for many. For instance, the Suns didn't get into the playoffs but they were undefeated and someone joked that not being able to go out every night may have helped the young players on that roster. :D

But yeah the Jazz need Mitchell to be that hot more consistently. Yes it's possible for the other seeds to reach the WCF, like the Trailblazers did that one year. Or the Rockets did that one year as well. But it's hard for teams to perform two rounds better than their average on a sustained basis.

We will see if AD and Lebron stay that hot and healthy.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#73 » by ForeverRDjazz » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:53 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:My wag: The Jazz have as good a chance to reach the WCF as any team except the Lakers. The Lakers are the sole favorite to get to the WCF and Finals.

Short season and the jazz already have a one game lead on the lakers. :lol: Clips beat Lakers and we hammered the Clips. :) Barkley said Blazers would win it all this year. LOL i'm thinking Charles is second guessing that now. Jazz will finish top 3 and the # 1 seed wouldn't surprise me at all this year. They keep playing this kind of ball? Watch out.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#74 » by Joao Saraiva » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:44 am

Should we try to trade for Harden? What could we give for him? Would you trade Mitchell and picks?
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#75 » by GobertReport » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:12 am

Joao Saraiva wrote:Should we try to trade for Harden? What could we give for him? Would you trade Mitchell and picks?


No Mitchell at this point has more value, you trade Bogey, O’Neale, Udoka, Conley, and picks for Harden and filler.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#76 » by Joao Saraiva » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:19 am

GobertReport wrote:
Joao Saraiva wrote:Should we try to trade for Harden? What could we give for him? Would you trade Mitchell and picks?


No Mitchell at this point has more value, you trade Bogey, O’Neale, Udoka, Conley, and picks for Harden and filler.


While I believe in Mitchell it's hard for me to think he'll ever be the player Harden is on offense.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#77 » by Rauxcee » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:28 am

Joao Saraiva wrote:Should we try to trade for Harden? What could we give for him? Would you trade Mitchell and picks?


No. If the team isn't on the players approved list, there is no point. They are just going to refuse to show uo, demand another trade, and/or leave. There is plenty of evidence to support that.


Also, I personally don't like him or his play style and I'm not convinced even at a rental he'd get us a championship.

But ultimately the real issue is we don't have nearly enough strip clubs to keep him happy.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#78 » by GobertReport » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:18 am

Joao Saraiva wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
Joao Saraiva wrote:Should we try to trade for Harden? What could we give for him? Would you trade Mitchell and picks?


No Mitchell at this point has more value, you trade Bogey, O’Neale, Udoka, Conley, and picks for Harden and filler.


While I believe in Mitchell it's hard for me to think he'll ever be the player Harden is on offense.


A resigned Mitchell has more value.
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#79 » by tugs » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:38 am

A team so deep with all parts clicking over an iso superstar that only gets you great fantasy numbers. All day
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Re: Official 2020-2021 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread 

Post#80 » by Crunch 99 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:22 pm

The Jazz haven't looked very good to start the season, but there are reasons for cautious optimism:

- Even with the slow start, the Jazz are still tied for first place at 2-1 with eight other teams, whereas last season's WCF teams, the Lakers and Nuggets, have worse records.

- Gobert, Favors, Clarkson and Conley are all playing pretty well to start the season.

- Mitchell and Bogey's low shooting percentages are a big factor contributing to the Jazz' slow start, but Mitchell and Bogey will bounce back near career shooting percentages. Bogey already seems like he may be getting his three point shooting back on track with five made threes in the second half of last night's game.

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