Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros.

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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#21 » by MTJazzv3 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:39 pm

What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#22 » by babyjax13 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:21 pm

MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


There were actually quite a few people excited by Rudy (I was not one of them, I was meh on it).
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#23 » by Daddy 801 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:37 pm

Udoka's screening looks decent already. It wasn't all in the right spots at the right time, but at least he was active and trying to set multiple screens per play. If he can be an elite rebounder, a good shot blocker, and can set good screens he will be a good pick.
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#24 » by V-John » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:57 pm

MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#25 » by Daddy 801 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:44 pm

V-John wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?


The championship team the past 25 years has either had a top 1-2 wing/guard or a top 1-2 big man.

In rough order... Hakeem, Jordan-3, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq-3, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, LeBron, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe-2, Dirk, LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, LeBron, Steph/Durant-2, Kawhi, LeBron.

Most of these teams with a big man as the best player still had a dominant wing/guard so were lucky we have Donovan.

The one anomaly is Wallace. And you could argue he was a top 1-2 big man for a few years while he was the best defensive player in the league. Wallace and Gobert are similar in that regard.

We are not getting LeBron, Durant, or Steph anytime soon. Hopefully Donovan can improve to be a top 5 guard. The only hope is the Jazz make a team like the Pistons and Celtics with Gobert being our version of Wallace/Garnett and Donovan being our version of Billups/Pierce.

Even if Udoka becomes like Rudy it won't be for a few years. And even if he becomes good he won't become as good as Rudy. Has a big man besides Gobert been as impressive on the defensive end since Wallace? Garnett? Am I missing someone?
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#26 » by Catchall » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:03 am

Daddy 801 wrote:
V-John wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?


The championship team the past 25 years has either had a top 1-2 wing/guard or a top 1-2 big man.

In rough order... Hakeem, Jordan-3, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq-3, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, LeBron, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe-2, Dirk, LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, LeBron, Steph/Durant-2, Kawhi, LeBron.

Most of these teams with a big man as the best player still had a dominant wing/guard so were lucky we have Donovan.

The one anomaly is Wallace. And you could argue he was a top 1-2 big man for a few years while he was the best defensive player in the league. Wallace and Gobert are similar in that regard.

We are not getting LeBron, Durant, or Steph anytime soon. Hopefully Donovan can improve to be a top 5 guard. The only hope is the Jazz make a team like the Pistons and Celtics with Gobert being our version of Wallace/Garnett and Donovan being our version of Billups/Pierce.

Even if Udoka becomes like Rudy it won't be for a few years. And even if he becomes good he won't become as good as Rudy. Has a big man besides Gobert been as impressive on the defensive end since Wallace? Garnett? Am I missing someone?


Rudy is like Mutombo. Mitchell is a bit like a Derrick Rose or Allen Iverson. But the Jazz as team play a very modern game with a TON of 3pt shots.

This Jazz team is built to play a lot like the Rockets team from 3 years ago, with Mitchell playing the James Harden role, Conley playing the CP3 role, Bogdanovic playing the Eric Gordon role, and Rudy playing the Clint Capella role. Clarkson comes in to shoot like Austin Rivers, and Royce is the Gerald Green 3D guy. Last game, 50% of the Jazz's shots were 3s. You could practically call it Morey-ball. What the Jazz don't quite have is the Trevor Ariza from three years ago.
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#27 » by sip » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:46 am

Daddy 801 wrote:
V-John wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?


The championship team the past 25 years has either had a top 1-2 wing/guard or a top 1-2 big man.

In rough order... Hakeem, Jordan-3, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq-3, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, LeBron, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe-2, Dirk, LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, LeBron, Steph/Durant-2, Kawhi, LeBron.

Most of these teams with a big man as the best player still had a dominant wing/guard so were lucky we have Donovan.

The one anomaly is Wallace. And you could argue he was a top 1-2 big man for a few years while he was the best defensive player in the league. Wallace and Gobert are similar in that regard.

We are not getting LeBron, Durant, or Steph anytime soon. Hopefully Donovan can improve to be a top 5 guard. The only hope is the Jazz make a team like the Pistons and Celtics with Gobert being our version of Wallace/Garnett and Donovan being our version of Billups/Pierce.

Even if Udoka becomes like Rudy it won't be for a few years. And even if he becomes good he won't become as good as Rudy. Has a big man besides Gobert been as impressive on the defensive end since Wallace? Garnett? Am I missing someone?
There has been quite a few but 3 jump out at me. Dwight Howard pre back injury was incredible defensively. Duncan was also an incredible defender. Marc Gasol had a stretch where he was dominant defensively for 3 or 4 years.

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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#28 » by Daddy 801 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:37 am

sip wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
V-John wrote:
Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?


The championship team the past 25 years has either had a top 1-2 wing/guard or a top 1-2 big man.

In rough order... Hakeem, Jordan-3, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq-3, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, LeBron, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe-2, Dirk, LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, LeBron, Steph/Durant-2, Kawhi, LeBron.

Most of these teams with a big man as the best player still had a dominant wing/guard so were lucky we have Donovan.

The one anomaly is Wallace. And you could argue he was a top 1-2 big man for a few years while he was the best defensive player in the league. Wallace and Gobert are similar in that regard.

We are not getting LeBron, Durant, or Steph anytime soon. Hopefully Donovan can improve to be a top 5 guard. The only hope is the Jazz make a team like the Pistons and Celtics with Gobert being our version of Wallace/Garnett and Donovan being our version of Billups/Pierce.

Even if Udoka becomes like Rudy it won't be for a few years. And even if he becomes good he won't become as good as Rudy. Has a big man besides Gobert been as impressive on the defensive end since Wallace? Garnett? Am I missing someone?
There has been quite a few but 3 jump out at me. Dwight Howard pre back injury was incredible defensively. Duncan was also an incredible defender. Marc Gasol had a stretch where he was dominant defensively for 3 or 4 years.

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Howard in his prime I can see as a good comp. Duncan and Gasol were/are brilliant, but I think there skillset was intelligence and not athleticism or freak size. Rudy is a freak. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. He also had got that drive that is rare. Gobert had Mamba mentality. He truly cares and wants to annihilate his opponents. You can see it in the majority of plays. He gets pissed from a possession in the second quarter when he misses a close out. Not many big men have it. It’s the best part of who Rudy is.


Mutombo as mentioned before is a good comp.
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#29 » by MTJazzv3 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:45 pm

V-John wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?


The Jazz appear to believe that having a rim protector/rebound gobbler available at all times is a key to both sides of the floor. It is inevitable that either or both Rudy and Favs will miss games with injury/sickness, thus the competent 3rd stringer comes into play. I agree that the Jazz could have looked for a 3rd string big wing but looking at the roster I think they have that well covered? The Jazz aren't going to ever to be an all small ball team. I don't see that as eliminating them from contender status - the game is always evolving.
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#30 » by V-John » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:00 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
V-John wrote:
MTJazzv3 wrote:What's not to like about a guy with a Rudy-like upside? No one on this forum was very excited about Rudy either. Paint dominant centers still have a valuable place in the league. They may not always rise to all-star status but will be key ingredients for dominant teams.


Well, my question would be, if they are going to keep Rudy, then why just a high pick on his back up or third stringer? Unless that signals not planning on keeping Rudy, which makes sense.

It's been quite some time though since a team won the championship with a paint dominant center, right?


The championship team the past 25 years has either had a top 1-2 wing/guard or a top 1-2 big man.

In rough order... Hakeem, Jordan-3, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq-3, Duncan, Wallace, Duncan, LeBron, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe-2, Dirk, LeBron, Kawhi, Steph, LeBron, Steph/Durant-2, Kawhi, LeBron.

Most of these teams with a big man as the best player still had a dominant wing/guard so were lucky we have Donovan.

The one anomaly is Wallace. And you could argue he was a top 1-2 big man for a few years while he was the best defensive player in the league. Wallace and Gobert are similar in that regard.

We are not getting LeBron, Durant, or Steph anytime soon. Hopefully Donovan can improve to be a top 5 guard. The only hope is the Jazz make a team like the Pistons and Celtics with Gobert being our version of Wallace/Garnett and Donovan being our version of Billups/Pierce.

Even if Udoka becomes like Rudy it won't be for a few years. And even if he becomes good he won't become as good as Rudy. Has a big man besides Gobert been as impressive on the defensive end since Wallace? Garnett? Am I missing someone?


My comment about a paint dominate center was more directed at guys like Wallace, Shaq etc as opposed to Garnett, Dirk etc etc.

Also, let me be clear... I hope Rudy stays. He is certainly an anomaly in the league and I love his tenacity and his play. He does a ton of great things with his defense that helps out his teammates. But I also think that because of his inability to shoot or even spread the floor, it can hurt the offense a bit.
As you look across the league, we don't see big men with his skillset (or lack thereof, depending on how you look at it) in the league as much anymore... And how many of them are on championship contenders? Today's game seems to be about movement, flow, floor spread, etc. So, my comment was mainly about Rudy's game translating to that. I hope you are right though.. The game is always evolving. That is a good thing.

That being said, I kinda questioned taking Udoka so early. (The Dwight comp is a good one... )

Regardless, what the heck do I know? I"m just a teacher in Kansas. :)

Enjoying the conversation too. Its nice to be able to talk to other Jazz fans. Not many of them here in Kansas. :)
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#31 » by jazzfan1971 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:50 pm

I'm definitely in the camp of, "Just give me a terrific athlete with great size for his position and let me see what my coaches can do to teach him the game."

Could be a bust, sure. But, if he pans out he will be terrific.

I much prefer this over a guy like Greyson Allen that has a low ceiling to their game.

I'll take the high risk/high reward guy every time.
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#32 » by V-John » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:44 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'm definitely in the camp of, "Just give me a terrific athlete with great size for his position and let me see what my coaches can do to teach him the game."

Could be a bust, sure. But, if he pans out he will be terrific.

I much prefer this over a guy like Greyson Allen that has a low ceiling to their game.

I'll take the high risk/high reward guy every time.


That's fair...

Although, he did have a pretty fair coach at KU too. :)
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Re: Udoka Thread- Is he going to be good? Skills that translate to the pros. 

Post#33 » by BudTugly » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:10 am

I don’t know how you can interpret this pick as anything but pressure on and insurance against Rudy.

IMO our people are not all in and feel like they can take or leave him.

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