We should give whatever it takes to get Harden

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Should we go after James Harden?

Yes
2
9%
No
17
77%
Yes but we should keep at least Mitchell
1
5%
Yes but we should keep at least Gobert
2
9%
 
Total votes: 22

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We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#1 » by Joao Saraiva » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:16 pm

While I'm a big fan of Gobert, while I think Mitchell is dedicated and has good potential, let's be honest: we're not going to win it all just by keeping the guys we have.

It's time to bet: just give Houston picks and whatever to get James Harden. As long as we keep Gobert and another good perimeter player, that's the best bet we have to win it all.

Yes going to the 1st or 2nd round is fine, but James Harden is available.

Why are we never in the mix to get such stars? Even if it is a rental... I'd rather have 1 ring like Toronto than hanging arround being good for 10 years.

Do you think we should go after Harden?
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#2 » by red4hf » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:21 pm

How many championships has Harden won in Houston? Or OKC? Hell, he's only been to 1 NBA Finals, and that was as the sixth man on a Durant/Westbrook team......

Why would it be different in Utah?
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#3 » by Joao Saraiva » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:24 pm

red4hf wrote:How many championships has Harden won in Houston? Or OKC? Hell, he's only been to 1 NBA Finals, and that was as the sixth man on a Durant/Westbrook team......

Why would it be different in Utah?


He's the type of player you can build a very good offensive system arround.

What would be diferent? We have everything... but star power. That's all there is left.

We are a better defensive team than Houston, a better fit for Harden, we have depth, the best rim protector in the game...

He'll make the difference on offense for sure. He's that good as a #1 option. At least I think he is.

There is no more GSW with Steph and KD.

Sure we're not favorites to beat the LA teams, but we're closer and if we catch a break we might only have to beat one of them.

I think if you can get such player, you should.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#4 » by red4hf » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:37 pm

Joao Saraiva wrote:
red4hf wrote:How many championships has Harden won in Houston? Or OKC? Hell, he's only been to 1 NBA Finals, and that was as the sixth man on a Durant/Westbrook team......

Why would it be different in Utah?


He's the type of player you can build a very good offensive system arround.

What would be diferent? We have everything... but star power. That's all there is left.

We are a better defensive team than Houston, a better fit for Harden, we have depth, the best rim protector in the game...

He'll make the difference on offense for sure. He's that good as a #1 option. At least I think he is.

There is no more GSW with Steph and KD.

Sure we're not favorites to beat the LA teams, but we're closer and if we catch a break we might only have to beat one of them.

I think if you can get such player, you should.


You'll have him for 2 seasons, and then he's gone...... So, you are mortgaging your future on a bet that you can win in that time...... And after those 2 years, you will be rebuilding, except you won't have the draft picks that you need to rebuild..... And you won't have cap space anyway between Gobert and whoever else is left......

And no, things won't be different, Rockets tried paring Harden with other superstars, didn't work...... They tried partnering him with defensive players (Capela, Tucker, Covington) didn't work...... Sure, Gobert is much better than Capela, but the difference is enough to overcome the LA teams, or Brooklyn in the finals? Nah......

And that depth you speak of, will be gone, since you have to match salaries, so there's won't be any depth after that......
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#5 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:59 pm

I'd say that our future is already mortgaged. And we just bloated our payroll to keep the same core of players who haven't been able to move past the 2nd round. If anything, we've regressed to a first round exit for two straight seasons. Now we're paying even more to keep the same core. Results won't dramatically change. We're stuck. And we've already traded plenty of picks for average players (how many first round picks have we wasted on finding a PG and we still don't have a long-term solution?), we may as well trade draft picks for one of the best players in the league.

As for what the Rockets did with building a team around Harden, they've been able to trade for star players but at the same time they took the analytics aspect way too far and created a very unbalanced roster by getting rid of anything that looks like a bigman, when they weren't forced to. They've committed unforced errors, which cost them. They treated the team as an experiment in analytics and it backfired.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#6 » by sip » Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:01 pm

I'm going to pass. I really dislike Harden and he would never re-sign here.

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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#7 » by sip » Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:05 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:I'd say that our future is already mortgaged. And we just bloated our payroll to keep the same core of players who haven't been able to move past the 2nd round. If anything, we've regressed to a first round exit for two straight seasons. Now we're paying even more to keep the same core. Results won't dramatically change. We're stuck. And we've already traded plenty of picks for average players (how many first round picks have we wasted on finding a PG and we still don't have a long-term solution?), we may as well trade draft picks for one of the best players in the league.

As for what the Rockets did with building a team around Harden, they've been able to trade for star players but at the same time they took the analytics aspect way too far and created a very unbalanced roster by getting rid of anything that looks like a bigman, when they weren't forced to. They've committed unforced errors, which cost them. They treated the team as an experiment in analytics and it backfired.
The funny part about the Harden situation to me is that I think this is the best rockets team that he has been on. Christian Wood is a beast and Cousins looks solid and is a great compliment to Wall and Harden. John Wall has looked awesome to me. I forgot how good he is and his handle is unbelievable which allows him to get wherever he wants on the court. His jumper looks good as well.

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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#8 » by red4hf » Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:58 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:I'd say that our future is already mortgaged. And we just bloated our payroll to keep the same core of players who haven't been able to move past the 2nd round. If anything, we've regressed to a first round exit for two straight seasons. Now we're paying even more to keep the same core. Results won't dramatically change. We're stuck. And we've already traded plenty of picks for average players (how many first round picks have we wasted on finding a PG and we still don't have a long-term solution?), we may as well trade draft picks for one of the best players in the league.

As for what the Rockets did with building a team around Harden, they've been able to trade for star players but at the same time they took the analytics aspect way too far and created a very unbalanced roster by getting rid of anything that looks like a bigman, when they weren't forced to. They've committed unforced errors, which cost them. They treated the team as an experiment in analytics and it backfired.


Like it or not, the reality is not every NBA team is competing for a Championship...... Of course, the owners are not going to come out and say so publicly (other than maybe the former Clippers owner)......

It seems to be the Jazz's goal is to make the playoffs and go as deep as possible, while making a profit...... Maybe that will change under the new ownership, we shall see......Mortgaging the future for 2 seasons of Harden just doesn't fit that formula......
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#9 » by SoCalJazzFan » Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:46 pm

I dislike Harden and his style of play so much I would take a sabbatical of watching the Jazz until he was no longer on the team.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#10 » by Inigo Montoya » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:43 pm

red4hf wrote:Like it or not, the reality is not every NBA team is competing for a Championship...... Of course, the owners are not going to come out and say so publicly (other than maybe the former Clippers owner)......

It seems to be the Jazz's goal is to make the playoffs and go as deep as possible, while making a profit...... Maybe that will change under the new ownership, we shall see......Mortgaging the future for 2 seasons of Harden just doesn't fit that formula......


I agree with most of this, but I'll point out that we already mortgaged our future with the Conley trade and the new Gobert+Mitchell contracts.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#11 » by red4hf » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:42 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
red4hf wrote:Like it or not, the reality is not every NBA team is competing for a Championship...... Of course, the owners are not going to come out and say so publicly (other than maybe the former Clippers owner)......

It seems to be the Jazz's goal is to make the playoffs and go as deep as possible, while making a profit...... Maybe that will change under the new ownership, we shall see......Mortgaging the future for 2 seasons of Harden just doesn't fit that formula......


I agree with most of this, but I'll point out that we already mortgaged our future with the Conley trade and the new Gobert+Mitchell contracts.


Well, I certainly won't defend the Conley trade...... Mitchell's and Gobert's extensions were something the team had to do..... Unless they were looking for a full rebuild, which didn't make sense at this time.....

It would be interesting to look back and see the success or failures of trades of stars for future picks....... Certainly didn't work for Brooklyn, kind of worked for Toronto, but they didn't give up any future picks.......
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#12 » by Rauxcee » Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:39 am

I've seen enough of Harden no showing in the playoffs that I'm not convinced he'll win anything here. Add to it that he'll demand a trade after 1 season like Butler and it's not worth.

If you aren't on the players list of teams, it's not worth trading. It never works out (see Minnesota, Philly, OKC, Toronto?). It only worked for Toronto because the Warriors had freak injuries.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#13 » by TO11 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:37 am

If we are going to exit in the first or second round of the playoffs, I would rather watch this team do it than a team with Harden on it. Better to keep the culture the jazz have than to trade for harden and have the team flipped upside down. Someone said you can build the offense around harden. The offense is just have everyone stretch the floor and let harden iso. It’s not really a system. He’s talented but I can’t stand that brand of basketball. To clarify I am not saying he isn’t good, but I just don’t enjoy watching him player tbh.


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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#14 » by babyjax13 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:09 pm

Mitchell + Conley is as good of an offer as they will get. I think Harden turns us into an instant contender - although if Mitchell can get closer to what he was in the bubble, we will be one. I'd pull the trigger, but I understand why people wouldn't, but I'd love to watch:

Harden/Clarkson
O'neale/Oni/Clarkson
Jingles/Bogdanovic
Bogdanovic/Favors/Niang
Gobert/Favors
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#15 » by GobertReport » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:50 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Mitchell + Conley is as good of an offer as they will get. I think Harden turns us into an instant contender - although if Mitchell can get closer to what he was in the bubble, we will be one. I'd pull the trigger, but I understand why people wouldn't, but I'd love to watch:

Harden/Clarkson
O'neale/Oni/Clarkson
Jingles/Bogdanovic
Bogdanovic/Favors/Niang
Gobert/Favors


At this point Mitchell has more trade value, I’d want Harden plus.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#16 » by babyjax13 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:59 pm

GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Mitchell + Conley is as good of an offer as they will get. I think Harden turns us into an instant contender - although if Mitchell can get closer to what he was in the bubble, we will be one. I'd pull the trigger, but I understand why people wouldn't, but I'd love to watch:

Harden/Clarkson
O'neale/Oni/Clarkson
Jingles/Bogdanovic
Bogdanovic/Favors/Niang
Gobert/Favors


At this point Mitchell has more trade value, I’d want Harden plus.


I disagree that Mitchell has more trade value. Harden is an exponentially better player locked in for two years. The only complicating factor is that there is a limited set of teams that can realistically retain him, and we are not on his list, so it is a moot argument, anyway.
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#17 » by eLo » Mon Jan 4, 2021 3:57 am

babyjax13 wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Mitchell + Conley is as good of an offer as they will get. I think Harden turns us into an instant contender - although if Mitchell can get closer to what he was in the bubble, we will be one. I'd pull the trigger, but I understand why people wouldn't, but I'd love to watch:

Harden/Clarkson
O'neale/Oni/Clarkson
Jingles/Bogdanovic
Bogdanovic/Favors/Niang
Gobert/Favors


At this point Mitchell has more trade value, I’d want Harden plus.


I disagree that Mitchell has more trade value. Harden is an exponentially better player locked in for two years. The only complicating factor is that there is a limited set of teams that can realistically retain him, and we are not on his list, so it is a moot argument, anyway.

mitchell got bigger trade value only in Jazz Fans heads :P honestly i dont like harden, but if there would be a chance to get him in return for mitchell i would do that immediately
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#18 » by ForeverRDjazz » Mon Jan 4, 2021 4:35 am

For what Harden is getting paid and with teams NOT lining up to trade for him I'd bet teams would line up for what Mitchell is making and take on his over all demeanor over what Harden brings. Youth and fitness is on Mitchell's side also. Harden is running out of time to win it all and he knows it and is desperate to get it done. Harden is prob the top 3 best offensive player in the league. Harden thinks to highly of himself which is a turn off. Like someone posted above. Jazz aren't a team on his list. Thanks James!
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#19 » by eLo » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:57 pm

well so as we know right now asking price was not specially high :P i dont know if harden would like to join Jazz, plus its nice to see that rockets are scr.w, but i agree with author of this topic that wit this bunch of guys and with Gob and Mitchell as leaders we wont win nothing past 2rd
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Re: We should give whatever it takes to get Harden 

Post#20 » by sip » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:03 pm

eLo wrote:well so as we know right now asking price was not specially high i dont know if harden would like to join Jazz, plus its nice to see that rockets are scr.w, but i agree with author of this topic that wit this bunch of guys and with Gob and Mitchell as leaders we wont win nothing past 2rd
The asking price looked pretty damn high to me. Three unprotected 1sts as well as 4 picks swaps and 2 really good younger players in Levert and Allen.

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