This year feels different

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This year feels different 

Post#1 » by sip » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:51 pm

Over the previous 3 seasons we have had some incredible runs throughout the season. Last year we have a stretch where we went 19-2 but then we turned around and lost 5 straight. Four of which were to teams missing key players. During the 18-19 season we had 2 great stretches. One where we went 9-1 and the other when went 13-3. In the 17-18 season we have a stretch where we went 21-2. As you can see these types of runs are actually pretty common for us but this feels different. Yeah we are seeing a bunch of guys shoot the 3 ball at a crazy high clip but our best shooter hasn't even shot well. Other guys will likely come back down to earth but Bogey should also get on track at some point which should help offset that. We have never even come to having this level of shooting.

The playmaking trio aka Mitchell, Clarkson and Conley. For the 17-18 and 18-19 seasons Mitchell was really the only guy that we had who could break down the defense and get things moving. Last year saw more of it with Clarkson and then Conley at the end of the season. This year that trio is just relentless so when one guy is not going then one of the other 2 is pretty much guaranteed to be making something happen. This stability should help quite a bit when it comes to having letdowns throughout the season like we have seen in the past. Those 5 letdown games in the past is the difference between a 4 or 5 seed and a 1 or 2 seed.

The know your role trio aka Royce, Ingles and Bogey. Royce and Ingles are the dirty work guys that will do what needs to be done. Bogey is the one guy that needs to be rained in sometimes because I can't stand when he tries to make things happen off the dribble. That isn't his game and we don't need that from him. His role is a sniper and he can be the best in the league in that role. Last year Ingles really struggled coming off the bench as the primary ball handler and playmaker. Now with Clarkson being the center of attention for opposing defense it allows Ingles to play the support role that he thrives in. Add in his chemistry with Favors and you have a much better player. Then with Royce you have a guy that has just gotten a little bit better. He is the glue guy that every team needs. For 2 years we had Crowder in the roleplayer spot and the media loved to talk him up but give me all three of these guys over Crowder anyday. I thought he was overrated defensively and offensively he was just too inconsistent. He had those stretches where he was red hot from 3 but he had even more where he couldn't hit anything. In his time here the guy shot only shot 32% from 3. That sucks for a guy that played the role of stretch 4 for us.

Lastly we have the dirty work duo aka Gobert and Favors. These are the guys that are setting screens and rim running all day on offense and on defense they give us a constant paint deterrent. Favors was here for 2 of the prior 3 years and we were damn good defensively last year the drop from Favors to Bradley massive. You went from arguably a top 10 defensive big to a bottom 10 defensive big. It wouldn't have been as big of a deal if Bradley was an upgrade offensively but that wasn't the case either.

I'm sure we can all agree that we better in all three departments than we have ever been. Almost every team struggles throughout the year for a few stretches but this well rounded depth should help to limit those stretches. In a normal season I think we would be looking at a 60 win team.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#2 » by BudTugly » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:20 am

If this team has a weakness it is just having 2 small starting guards. That’s it.

Considering the fact that both of those guys are playing like all-stars somewhat mitigates that perceived weakness.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#3 » by sip » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:26 pm

BudTugly wrote:If this team has a weakness it is just having 2 small starting guards. That’s it.

Considering the fact that both of those guys are playing like all-stars somewhat mitigates that perceived weakness.



That is where it is nice to have Clarkson, Ingles and O'neale who can also play the 2 if we want to go bigger. I would still love to find a way to find a long wing defender that can play the 3 and 4 but those are obviously hard to come by.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#4 » by TNJazz » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:01 pm

This year does feel different. The win streak is coming pretty early and there are still ways they can improve, which if that happens could really make this team scary. I love how this team seems to have an honest passion for playing team ball and understanding everyones role, some are play makers, others are pounders, others are generators, and others are snipers. IMHO, the only one of these labels where a player is working outside of that role, is Bogey at times when he takes himself out of the sniper role and tries to be the generator and/or pounder inside. Since the team is playing so well, I think this is a terrific time for him to continue to experiment and learn how to become the one who could be in all three areas as an effective weapon. Not necessarily the top specialist in the sniper role exclusively. Working on his development will make him more of a weapon come playoff time when teams won't be able to plan on stopping his primary way of playing. He is a scorer and it seems to my eyes that while he is working to learn and improve in areas not in his known area of specialization (outside sniper), he looks to get frustrated when it doesn't work as well as he wants inside. He seems to get frustrated when calls don't go his way or when he feels he isn't getting fouls called on trips to the basket. Long end game here, I think if he keeps being patient and continues to evolve down low when the game dictates it, (ie he has a smaller player guarding him) he will learn how to get those calls and this will give us another offensive weapon to use when needed.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#5 » by sip » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:55 pm

At this point I view Bogey as a finished product. At 31 yes old I don't see him getting any better off the dribble or attacking. I think he is actually more likely to regress in that department. I also think he is more likely to get injured in the role. If he wants to improve at anything I would tell him to focus even more on off the ball movement.

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Re: This year feels different 

Post#6 » by TO11 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:27 pm

sip wrote:At this point I view Bogey as a finished product. At 31 yes old I don't see him getting any better off the dribble or attacking. I think he is actually more likely to regress in that department. I also think he is more likely to get injured in the role. If he wants to improve at anything I would tell him to focus even more on off the ball movement.

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I agree with this, he isn't drawing a lot of contact and generally isn't finishing. Plus we have other players both in the starting lineup (MItchell and Conley) and on the bench (Ingles and Clarkson) that can create. Also I will say I have been more impressed with Clarkson's ability to get to the basket this year. I just don't think we need Bogey to play this role at the moment, plus I don't think it's his strength.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#7 » by @ndrew » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:00 am

We need to get Rudy get more involved in Easy opportunties around the basket. Sometimes, he gets bored on offense and is just trying to force his way into it.
We need to work down low as an option if shot doesn't go down
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#8 » by dautjazz » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:23 am

@ndrew wrote:We need to get Rudy get more involved in Easy opportunties around the basket. Sometimes, he gets bored on offense and is just trying to force his way into it.
We need to work down low as an option if shot doesn't go down
The last few games he's put up some big numbers, maybe it's just that Mitchell is out, but the man has been doing it all.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#9 » by BudTugly » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:47 am

Conley being so good is a massive difference
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#10 » by @ndrew » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:45 pm

dautjazz wrote:
@ndrew wrote:We need to get Rudy get more involved in Easy opportunties around the basket. Sometimes, he gets bored on offense and is just trying to force his way into it.
We need to work down low as an option if shot doesn't go down
The last few games he's put up some big numbers, maybe it's just that Mitchell is out, but the man has been doing it all.

Yes, I think Coach realized that Rudy was not happy with Ben Wallace role. And Knicks defended the 3pt line pretty well, so alternative had to be found. He is just too damn long for today league, so they should use him on offense on these lob passes.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#11 » by dautjazz » Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:02 pm

BudTugly wrote:Conley being so good is a massive difference


Definitely, he actually has a -.4 last season in his on/off, this season he leads the league with +30.9! It's not a perfect stat by any mean, but we were a good team last season, he played most of the games, and he still had a negative value! Last year we basically had a g-league player starting at PG, this year we got Conley at the top of his game! Add Favors to that mix, steady improvement from Mitchell, and Gobert stepping it up again on defense. Oh Royce has been magnificent as well.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#12 » by dautjazz » Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:06 pm

@ndrew wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
@ndrew wrote:We need to get Rudy get more involved in Easy opportunties around the basket. Sometimes, he gets bored on offense and is just trying to force his way into it.
We need to work down low as an option if shot doesn't go down
The last few games he's put up some big numbers, maybe it's just that Mitchell is out, but the man has been doing it all.

Yes, I think Coach realized that Rudy was not happy with Ben Wallace role. And Knicks defended the 3pt line pretty well, so alternative had to be found. He is just too damn long for today league, so they should use him on offense on these lob passes.


Agreed. I understand we are stacked with offensive options, but Gobert should be north of 15ppg, he's nearly automatic, making the shot or getting free throws on like 70-80% of his shot attempts.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#13 » by sip » Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:46 pm

dautjazz wrote:
BudTugly wrote:Conley being so good is a massive difference


Definitely, he actually has a -.4 last season in his on/off, this season he leads the league with +30.9! It's not a perfect stat by any mean, but we were a good team last season, he played most of the games, and he still had a negative value! Last year we basically had a g-league player starting at PG, this year we got Conley at the top of his game! Add Favors to that mix, steady improvement from Mitchell, and Gobert stepping it up again on defense. Oh Royce has been magnificent as well.
David Locke mentioned the other day on the radio that Conley is playing almost all his minutes with Gobert on the floor. That is always a recipe for a great point differential.

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Re: This year feels different 

Post#14 » by SoCalJazzFan » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:24 pm

I think that they all realize that they let a great opportunity slip by with the loss to the Nugs and the faltering Clips in the bubble. They could have been in the WCF, and they know it. They all have a drive this year, and several, beginning with Gobert and now Mitchell, and chips on their shoulders. They are a balanced and deep team who are unselfish and determined and it will be fun to see if those characteristics can beat out super teams.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#15 » by KqWIN » Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:20 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:I think that they all realize that they let a great opportunity slip by with the loss to the Nugs and the faltering Clips in the bubble. They could have been in the WCF, and they know it. They all have a drive this year, and several, beginning with Gobert and now Mitchell, and chips on their shoulders. They are a balanced and deep team who are unselfish and determined and it will be fun to see if those characteristics can beat out super teams.


I think the collective shame has everyone playing team ball. We had so much offensive firepower, but instead of leveraging that to get better shots for everyone it lowered our team shot quality because everyone was seeking out their own shots. We're finally playing unselfish and every game feels like open shot target practice.

On top of that, it felt like all players felt like their way of helping the team was taking over offensively. That mentality has completely changed and everyone is doing the dirty work. Defensively liabilities like Conley and Clarkson have turned into plus defenders through sheer grit. We're also the best offensive rebounding team after being below average for years. This is probably the most underrated aspect of our team.

I'm loving this team and their unselfishness. If you look at the time we've lost, it usually comes at the hand of Mitchell/Bogey dribbling too much and taking too much of the offense for themselves, but that has gotten better over time. I think the key for everyone is to be able to blend in when it's not their night.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#16 » by babyjax13 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:48 pm

KqWIN wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:I think that they all realize that they let a great opportunity slip by with the loss to the Nugs and the faltering Clips in the bubble. They could have been in the WCF, and they know it. They all have a drive this year, and several, beginning with Gobert and now Mitchell, and chips on their shoulders. They are a balanced and deep team who are unselfish and determined and it will be fun to see if those characteristics can beat out super teams.


I think the collective shame has everyone playing team ball. We had so much offensive firepower, but instead of leveraging that to get better shots for everyone it lowered our team shot quality because everyone was seeking out their own shots. We're finally playing unselfish and every game feels like open shot target practice.

On top of that, it felt like all players felt like their way of helping the team was taking over offensively. That mentality has completely changed and everyone is doing the dirty work. Defensively liabilities like Conley and Clarkson have turned into plus defenders through sheer grit. We're also the best offensive rebounding team after being below average for years. This is probably the most underrated aspect of our team.

I'm loving this team and their unselfishness. If you look at the time we've lost, it usually comes at the hand of Mitchell/Bogey dribbling too much and taking too much of the offense for themselves, but that has gotten better over time. I think the key for everyone is to be able to blend in when it's not their night.


I think having someone who has sacrificed larger roles throughout his career in order to be on winning teams (Favors) really helps, too. The team is a joy this year, and when Bojan's shooting comes around, we will be that much more dangerous.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#17 » by Crunch 99 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:26 am

dautjazz wrote:
BudTugly wrote:Conley being so good is a massive difference


Definitely, he actually has a -.4 last season in his on/off, this season he leads the league with +30.9! It's not a perfect stat by any mean, but we were a good team last season, he played most of the games, and he still had a negative value! Last year we basically had a g-league player starting at PG, this year we got Conley at the top of his game!


Whoa. Stop the presses! Mike Conley's agent hacked the 538 computer and now Mike Conley is the single best player in the entire NBA! Go Jazz!

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https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

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Re: This year feels different 

Post#18 » by babyjax13 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:06 am

Crunch 99 wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
BudTugly wrote:Conley being so good is a massive difference


Definitely, he actually has a -.4 last season in his on/off, this season he leads the league with +30.9! It's not a perfect stat by any mean, but we were a good team last season, he played most of the games, and he still had a negative value! Last year we basically had a g-league player starting at PG, this year we got Conley at the top of his game!


Whoa. Stop the presses! Mike Conley's agent hacked the 538 computer and now Mike Conley is the best player in the NBA!

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Image


That's with Bojan being a massive negative:
Offense: -1.5
Defense: -4.1

If he returns to form even with some regression by other players we have a really nice foundation for continued success. I like this team a lot.
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JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

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Re: This year feels different 

Post#19 » by @ndrew » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:50 am

Bojan has to go Being smart passer, doing some post ups Ups and just shoot over short opponents. Work hard under our own basket for rebound, and that's it.
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Re: This year feels different 

Post#20 » by anish23 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:26 am

It does. It's awesome. Im living in Nepal right now and struggling with sinus and headache, but I've got my alarm set to 2:20 am to watch the one against Denver tonight. Im gonna have a terrible day tomorrow. I don't want to miss a single Jazz game though, its been so much fun.

The fact that Donovan is out and we are obliterating teams is something I didn't think would happen, so I am really surprised. I knew we had it in us to play smooth basketball and hit threes but I didn't know we would be winning so convincingly.

I suppose Donovan is still out for the Denver game and that's a bummer, but the way we are going my money is still on US.

GO JAZZ. LETS MAKE IT THE YEAR WE WIN IT ALL.
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