Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move...

Moderators: FJS, Inigo Montoya, DelaneyRudd

zero24gravity
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,288
And1: 542
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#1 » by zero24gravity » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:18 am

Despite having the league's best record, are we ready to move on from Bogey yet?

This is not a knee-jerk reaction based in the last handful of games, either. For me, it simply that he's a ball stopper, but not good enough in isolation to be. He's not a good defender. He's not big, long or athletic enough to give the Jazz what they are missing. He's not a strong rebounder. He's not a good passer & doesn't seem to have ANY floor vision.... oh, and every time he dribbles, I assume a TO is coming.

Harsh? Yeah, I get that. I'm a huge Jazz fan & I want to root for him. I don't get the sense he's a bad teammate or someone who's not a good dude. He doesn't bother me like Boozer used to (he didn't even try on D and wouldn't play through a chipped fingernail). Hell, I'm not even bothered by the current shooting issues, because I know he CAN shoot... it's just all the other stuff.

The Jazz are pushing for a championship at this point. One can argue that you don't mess with chemistry, and I can get behind that. One of the team's best strengths is working Snyder's complicated system, both on offense and defense. Another player can't just come in and do that. (Unless you're Clarkson, but he's an anomaly, as the perfect amount of chaos for the Jazz's otherwise tight ship.) I like the Ilyasova signing, it helps with depth & I see him eventually finding some regular bench minutes. However, that doesn't address what I see as the need for addition by subtraction. That's not to say give him away or bench Bogey.... he's got value. He's a good scorer and very good shooter. The Jazz have made mid-season trades in each of the last 3 years, and while I do genuinely think the chemistry is something to preserve this year, I think Bogey is the one exception. I already think HE IS a chemistry issue, so moving him doesn't hurt the same way any other Jazz rotation player would.

But who to target? Well, the team needs a lengthy, athletic forward who can both defend & hit a 3, in order to both help the team, but also fit in. There's not a ton of Jarami Grant's out there to be had (someone I've armchair GM'd the Jazz getting for a couple years), but there is someone I see being a perfect grab; Larry Nance Jr., who happens to be stuck on a team that the Jazz have traded with each of the last 3 seasons. I used the trade machine to try to figure something out, but it just got way too complicated, which defeated the purpose of saving as much chemistry as possible. Then, while taking a lunch break, I popped on MSN.com, and guess what .... an article about the Jazz trading for Larry! lol

Here's the article's idea, and TBH, I'd be thrilled.

Jazz get: Larry Nance Jr. (3yr $11.7m), Ben McLemore (1yr $2.2m)
Jazz give: Bojan Bogdonovic (3yr $17.6m), Miye Oni (2yr 1.5m), 2026 top10 protected 1st round pick, 2021 2nd round pick (from GS)

Cavs get: Victor Oladipo (1yr $21m), Sterling Brown (1yr $1.6m), Miye Oni (2yr 1.5m), Utah's 2026 top10 protected 1st round pick, Utah's 2021 2nd round pick (from GS)
Cavs give: Taurean Prince (2yr $12.2m), Larry Nance Jr. (3yr $11.7m)

Rockets get: Bojan Bogdonovic (3yr $17.6m), Taurean Prince (2yr $12.2m)
Rockets give: Ben McLemore (1yr $2.2m), Victor Oladipo (1yr $21m), Sterling Brown (1yr $1.6m)

(The article didn't specifically say to include Oni, but did mention the Jazz might need to throw in another young, low-priced asset, and I think it's fair to include him, plus feel it makes it more realistic for the Cavs.)

The Cavs are primed for a fire-sale, the Rockets need to reset. Cleveland is essentially taking this to get the draft picks, as I doubt Oladipo would re-sign there, while the Rockets really need to dump Dipo and this gets them a couple quality players in return that aren't too old to use in a rebuild. This all makes WAY TOO MUCH SENSE for all 3 teams, as far as I can see.

Nance isn't a 1 year rental with 3 years on his contract, but is less pricey than Bogey, and at 28 years old fits in great with the Jazz core age, plus more importantly gives them what they need! Nance is shooting 37% from deep vs Bogey's 38% this year, so he's more than respectable, plus he can even play small ball center, which is a spot the Jazz need to sure-up behind Gobert & Favors. Then there's McLemore, who adds guard depth for Conley's load-management games + any injury that arises. He's no scrub, himself. Yes, 1st round picks are valuable, but I part ways with it happily to make a real title push.
GobertReport
RealGM
Posts: 11,382
And1: 2,593
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#2 » by GobertReport » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:25 am

zero24gravity wrote:Despite having the league's best record, are we ready to move on from Bogey yet?

This is not a knee-jerk reaction based in the last handful of games, either. For me, it simply that he's a ball stopper, but not good enough in isolation to be. He's not a good defender. He's not big, long or athletic enough to give the Jazz what they are missing. He's not a strong rebounder. He's not a good passer & doesn't seem to have ANY floor vision.... oh, and every time he dribbles, I assume a TO is coming.

Harsh? Yeah, I get that. I'm a huge Jazz fan & I want to root for him. I don't get the sense he's a bad teammate or someone who's not a good dude. He doesn't bother me like Boozer used to (he didn't even try on D and wouldn't play through a chipped fingernail). Hell, I'm not even bothered by the current shooting issues, because I know he CAN shoot... it's just all the other stuff.

The Jazz are pushing for a championship at this point. One can argue that you don't mess with chemistry, and I can get behind that. One of the team's best strengths is working Snyder's complicated system, both on offense and defense. Another player can't just come in and do that. (Unless you're Clarkson, but he's an anomaly, as the perfect amount of chaos for the Jazz's otherwise tight ship.) I like the Ilyasova signing, it helps with depth & I see him eventually finding some regular bench minutes. However, that doesn't address what I see as the need for addition by subtraction. That's not to say give him away or bench Bogey.... he's got value. He's a good scorer and very good shooter. The Jazz have made mid-season trades in each of the last 3 years, and while I do genuinely think the chemistry is something to preserve this year, I think Bogey is the one exception. I already think HE IS a chemistry issue, so moving him doesn't hurt the same way any other Jazz rotation player would.

But who to target? Well, the team needs a lengthy, athletic forward who can both defend & hit a 3, in order to both help the team, but also fit in. There's not a ton of Jarami Grant's out there to be had (someone I've armchair GM'd the Jazz getting for a couple years), but there is someone I see being a perfect grab; Larry Nance Jr., who happens to be stuck on a team that the Jazz have traded with each of the last 3 seasons. I used the trade machine to try to figure something out, but it just got way too complicated, which defeated the purpose of saving as much chemistry as possible. Then, while taking a lunch break, I popped on MSN.com, and guess what .... an article about the Jazz trading for Larry! lol

Here's the article's idea, and TBH, I'd be thrilled.

Jazz get: Larry Nance Jr. (3yr $11.7m), Ben McLemore (1yr $2.2m)
Jazz give: Bojan Bogdonovic (3yr $17.6m), Miye Oni (2yr 1.5m), 2026 top10 protected 1st round pick, 2021 2nd round pick (from GS)

Cavs get: Victor Oladipo (1yr $21m), Sterling Brown (1yr $1.6m), Miye Oni (2yr 1.5m), Utah's 2026 top10 protected 1st round pick, Utah's 2021 2nd round pick (from GS)
Cavs give: Taurean Prince (2yr $12.2m), Larry Nance Jr. (3yr $11.7m)

Rockets get: Bojan Bogdonovic (3yr $17.6m), Taurean Prince (2yr $12.2m)
Rockets give: Ben McLemore (1yr $2.2m), Victor Oladipo (1yr $21m), Sterling Brown (1yr $1.6m)

(The article didn't specifically say to include Oni, but did mention the Jazz might need to throw in another young, low-priced asset, and I think it's fair to include him, plus feel it makes it more realistic for the Cavs.)

The Cavs are primed for a fire-sale, the Rockets need to reset. Cleveland is essentially taking this to get the draft picks, as I doubt Oladipo would re-sign there, while the Rockets really need to dump Dipo and this gets them a couple quality players in return that aren't too old to use in a rebuild. This all makes WAY TOO MUCH SENSE for all 3 teams, as far as I can see.

Nance isn't a 1 year rental with 3 years on his contract, but is less pricey than Bogey, and at 28 years old fits in great with the Jazz core age, plus more importantly gives them what they need! Nance is shooting 37% from deep vs Bogey's 38% this year, so he's more than respectable, plus he can even play small ball center, which is a spot the Jazz need to sure-up behind Gobert & Favors. Then there's McLemore, who adds guard depth for Conley's load-management games + any injury that arises. He's no scrub, himself. Yes, 1st round picks are valuable, but I part ways with it happily to make a real title push.


I’d do that.
The artist formally known as Underkanter.
red4hf
Jazz Forum GTS Champion 2019-2020
Posts: 9,338
And1: 554
Joined: Jul 04, 2002

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#3 » by red4hf » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:04 am

Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......
zero24gravity
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,288
And1: 542
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#4 » by zero24gravity » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:11 am

red4hf wrote:Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......


Both are quality players, not on the last year of their deals, and neither are huge contracts. You still need guys to put the ball in the basket, even during rebuilds. They are vets, but not old, either.

Dipo is gone. They aren't losing him, they are getting something for him instead of nothing at the end of the year. All good to disagree, though, it's just armchair GM'ing.
red4hf
Jazz Forum GTS Champion 2019-2020
Posts: 9,338
And1: 554
Joined: Jul 04, 2002

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#5 » by red4hf » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:06 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
red4hf wrote:Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......


Both are quality players, not on the last year of their deals, and neither are huge contracts. You still need guys to put the ball in the basket, even during rebuilds. They are vets, but not old, either.

Dipo is gone. They aren't losing him, they are getting something for him instead of nothing at the end of the year. All good to disagree, though, it's just armchair GM'ing.


The reason to take on those long contracts is because you're getting something in return, ie draft picks...... They get nothing here.......
zero24gravity
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,288
And1: 542
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#6 » by zero24gravity » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:42 pm

red4hf wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
red4hf wrote:Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......


Both are quality players, not on the last year of their deals, and neither are huge contracts. You still need guys to put the ball in the basket, even during rebuilds. They are vets, but not old, either.

Dipo is gone. They aren't losing him, they are getting something for him instead of nothing at the end of the year. All good to disagree, though, it's just armchair GM'ing.


The reason to take on those long contracts is because you're getting something in return, ie draft picks...... They get nothing here.......


That's one opinon. 2 and 3 years are not "long contracts". Another idea would be to get players on short contracts, that help for a couple years, instead of nothing by letting Oladipo walk. Also, they could be traded in the future. I don't see anyone giving up fist round picks for an oft- injured player in the last year of his contract. Perhaps a title contender who thinks he'll get healthy enough to put them over the top, but that's unlikely, IMO.
sip
Senior
Posts: 622
And1: 650
Joined: Apr 14, 2009

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#7 » by sip » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:35 pm

The rockets would have zero interest in this. As far as Nance is concerned I'm not a fan and I sure as hell am not willing to give up Bogey and a future 1st for him. I was fooled into thinking this team could possibly win a title but I don't feel that way at all anymore. This team is simply not good enough to compete and Nance doesn't change that at all for me. Now I'm to the point where I just want damage control so I don't see this organization trade future picks in a futile effort to win a title with this team.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
ForeverRDjazz
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,612
And1: 355
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
     

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#8 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:33 am

red4hf wrote:Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......

Not sure on trade deal but last I heard Oladipo wanted out from day 1. I don't like players playing where they've made it clear they don't want to be there. Maybe he'll change his mind?
red4hf
Jazz Forum GTS Champion 2019-2020
Posts: 9,338
And1: 554
Joined: Jul 04, 2002

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#9 » by red4hf » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:16 am

ForeverRDjazz wrote:
red4hf wrote:Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......

Not sure on trade deal but last I heard Oladipo wanted out from day 1. I don't like players playing where they've made it clear they don't want to be there. Maybe he'll change his mind?


Even if he wants out doesn't mean you trade him for worse players with contracts that don't fit and no compensation...... You're better off holding on to him and trading him in the off-season (via a sign and trade) possibly getting a huge exemption that you can then use later to get an unwanted contract in return for draft considerations.......
red4hf
Jazz Forum GTS Champion 2019-2020
Posts: 9,338
And1: 554
Joined: Jul 04, 2002

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#10 » by red4hf » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:20 am

zero24gravity wrote:
red4hf wrote:
zero24gravity wrote:
Both are quality players, not on the last year of their deals, and neither are huge contracts. You still need guys to put the ball in the basket, even during rebuilds. They are vets, but not old, either.

Dipo is gone. They aren't losing him, they are getting something for him instead of nothing at the end of the year. All good to disagree, though, it's just armchair GM'ing.


The reason to take on those long contracts is because you're getting something in return, ie draft picks...... They get nothing here.......


That's one opinon. 2 and 3 years are not "long contracts". Another idea would be to get players on short contracts, that help for a couple years, instead of nothing by letting Oladipo walk. Also, they could be traded in the future. I don't see anyone giving up fist round picks for an oft- injured player in the last year of his contract. Perhaps a title contender who thinks he'll get healthy enough to put them over the top, but that's unlikely, IMO.


If you're trading all your star players, you don't want other players who are going to help you win games...... You want to tank, get high draft picks and make trades to get more draft picks...... I'd love somebody to show me an instance when a rebuilding team took 2 players who play the same position, with 2 or more years left on their contracts and got no compensation...... It just doesn't happen......
User avatar
ForeverRDjazz
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,612
And1: 355
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
     

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#11 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:28 am

red4hf wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:
red4hf wrote:Why would the Rockets want either of those players? Neither one fits with their rebuild, and they get no compensation, and lose Oladipo...... This is ridiculous......

Not sure on trade deal but last I heard Oladipo wanted out from day 1. I don't like players playing where they've made it clear they don't want to be there. Maybe he'll change his mind?


Even if he wants out doesn't mean you trade him for worse players with contracts that don't fit and no compensation...... You're better off holding on to him and trading him in the off-season (via a sign and trade) possibly getting a huge exemption that you can then use later to get an unwanted contract in return for draft considerations.......

I do kinda agree but when the league / other teams knows this, I think it also hurts the trade value? Plus you give the guy little time to grow roots he might end up liking things?
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 14,205
And1: 6,414
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#12 » by Catchall » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:40 pm

Bogdanovic's ideal role would be that of Davis Bertans, imo. He comes in to space the floor and knock down 3s off the catch. He's a release-valve shooter. When you start to ask him to handle and create with the ball like Gordon Hayward, or to drive and score in isolation like Tobias Harris, that's when things start to go awry.

Meanwhile, the Jazz have Joe Ingles playing the best ball of his career, performing as both a facilitator and as a knockdown shooter--think Hedo Turkoglu at his best with the Orlando Magic. It's because of the way that Ingles is playing that the Jazz could get away with trading Bogdanovic.

But that said, I don't think they're going to move him unless they can get back someone the caliber of Aaron Gordon or John Collins in a 3-team deal.

I think the Jazz will use their TPEs and 2nd-rd picks to add a veteran wing without moving Bogdanovic.
He/Him, Dude, Bro, Bruh
MTJazzv3
Starter
Posts: 2,266
And1: 915
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
 

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#13 » by MTJazzv3 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:47 pm

I'm good with Nance over Bogey. Nance at least plays defense and I'm getting past the point of being patient with Bogey returning to form and/or the way Quin is playing him. I'd take Gordon as well as he can guard big wings and spot up from the corner. Collins is not gonna happen (plus he doesn't play defense and needs the ball a lot). I'd like to see Oni stick - he's a cheap and adequate backup for O'Neale.
"And the cowhide globe hits home." - RIP Hot Rod Hundley
TNJazz
Senior
Posts: 583
And1: 184
Joined: Jan 07, 2017
     

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#14 » by TNJazz » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:56 pm

While I understand the general consensus of Bogey not getting any Love here, the header for this thread makes me pause. I agree that only 1 players makes sense to move, where I disagree is who that player is. Bogey is getting some much deserved heat right now, but I for one think he brings a lot to the table and come payoff time, his skills will translate into wins. The player I am really tired of being in the game due to his ineffective defense and his,"I've got the ball, I HAVE to shoot it" mentality that hurts way more often than it helps is the mini van Niang. The difference is what the team could get in return for Bogey compared to what they would get by trading Niang.
GobertReport
RealGM
Posts: 11,382
And1: 2,593
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#15 » by GobertReport » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:06 pm

TNJazz wrote:While I understand the general consensus of Bogey not getting any Love here, the header for this thread makes me pause. I agree that only 1 players makes sense to move, where I disagree is who that player is. Bogey is getting some much deserved heat right now, but I for one think he brings a lot to the table and come payoff time, his skills will translate into wins. The player I am really tired of being in the game due to his ineffective defense and his,"I've got the ball, I HAVE to shoot it" mentality that hurts way more often than it helps is the mini van Niang. The difference is what the team could get in return for Bogey compared to what they would get by trading Niang.



I’ve thought Niang was overrated from his first season here.
The artist formally known as Underkanter.
Charlie_S
Rookie
Posts: 1,051
And1: 75
Joined: Jan 20, 2006
Location: Italy

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#16 » by Charlie_S » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:32 pm

Niang is a good player to have at the end of your bench but he really shouldn't be in the regular rotation. I had some hope that Morgan or Brantley could improve enough to take his minutes but it seems they're not going to get there.
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 14,205
And1: 6,414
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#17 » by Catchall » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:33 pm

GobertReport wrote:
TNJazz wrote:While I understand the general consensus of Bogey not getting any Love here, the header for this thread makes me pause. I agree that only 1 players makes sense to move, where I disagree is who that player is. Bogey is getting some much deserved heat right now, but I for one think he brings a lot to the table and come payoff time, his skills will translate into wins. The player I am really tired of being in the game due to his ineffective defense and his,"I've got the ball, I HAVE to shoot it" mentality that hurts way more often than it helps is the mini van Niang. The difference is what the team could get in return for Bogey compared to what they would get by trading Niang.



I’ve thought Niang was overrated from his first season here.


If the Jazz are going to hand out multiple max-level salaries, they need rotational players at or near the minimum to balance their payroll. That's what guys like Niang and Oni provide. Going forward, the Jazz will have two max players (Gobert and Mitchell), several value contracts (e.g., Ingles, Clarkson, Royce, Favors), and a few minimum-salary guys.
He/Him, Dude, Bro, Bruh
zero24gravity
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,288
And1: 542
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#18 » by zero24gravity » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:46 am

TNJazz wrote:While I understand the general consensus of Bogey not getting any Love here, the header for this thread makes me pause. I agree that only 1 players makes sense to move, where I disagree is who that player is. Bogey is getting some much deserved heat right now, but I for one think he brings a lot to the table and come payoff time, his skills will translate into wins. The player I am really tired of being in the game due to his ineffective defense and his,"I've got the ball, I HAVE to shoot it" mentality that hurts way more often than it helps is the mini van Niang. The difference is what the team could get in return for Bogey compared to what they would get by trading Niang.


I don't disagree. Niang is fine to be on the team, and great when he gets hot from deep, but what else is there other than being a seemingly very likeable guy? I give him credit for trying to defend, but his physical limitations are glaring. Bojan & Niang playing a similar role/position makes things even worse. There's simply something missing at that spot. But I can't imagine Niang pulling in any kind of trade return, while Bogy could, which is the reasoning for the Post Title.
Gert42
Junior
Posts: 264
And1: 59
Joined: Jun 05, 2016
       

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#19 » by Gert42 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:45 am

The problem with any Bogey deal, if I am team seemingly trading assets, why would I want a guy who isn't fitting in as the #4 or #5 guy on the best record in the league?
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 14,205
And1: 6,414
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: Mid-season trade? Only 1 player makes sense to move... 

Post#20 » by Catchall » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:52 am

Gert42 wrote:The problem with any Bogey deal, if I am team seemingly trading assets, why would I want a guy who isn't fitting in as the #4 or #5 guy on the best record in the league?


Because you don't want to pay Lauri Markkanen his next contract,
or because Pascal Siakam's contract doesn't make sense for a team going into a full rebuild, especially if he's starting to sulk,
or because you're ready to move on from Aaron Gordon and you see Bogdanovic as a nice player and movable asset.
Or...
He/Him, Dude, Bro, Bruh

Return to Utah Jazz