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It's fine, he's not actually good but he can do his best Rudy impersonation off the bench. Maybe we are trading Dok?

I can dig it.

Like it, if they didn't have Udo

I haven't seen the terms of this deal, but i imagine it's short term and for a pretty low hit. I'm intrigued. He's a stat player, whos actual impact doesn't match the numbers. However, if he's willing and able to learn from the best (Rudy!), he's physically capable of being a fantastic backup for the Jazz (and starter if Rudy needs any time off).

Interestingly, just watched Dok in summer league, and he actually looked pretty damn good. Reminds me of Drummond. So strong and athletic. Gobbles up rebounds, destroys the rim on dunks and lobs, changes shots. Raw, of course, but if one game says anything, he does look better. This signing seems to signal another year primarily of G-League development for Dok.

zero24gravity wrote:I haven't seen the terms of this deal, but i imagine outs short term and for a pretty low hit. I'm intrigued. He's a stat player, whos actual impact doesn't match the numbers. However, if he's willing and able to learn from the best (Rudy!), he's physically capable of being a fantastic backup for the Jazz (and starter if Rudy needs any time off).

Interestingly, just watched Dok in summer league, and he actually looked pretty damn good. Reminds me of Drummond. So strong and athletic. Gobbles up rebounds, destroys the rim on dunks and lobs, changes shots. Raw, of course, but if one game says anything, he does look better. This signing seems to signal another year primarily of G-League development for Dok.

I'd like to see him loss few pounds over all but looked pretty good. Don't see him getting much time this year now. G league for sure. Of course he missed that most last year.

Maybe Whiteside as the physical center against the likes of Jokic and Embiid

Want to see a Whiteside and Gobert lineup just for fun.

This is setting us up to be the exact same team we were last year. I don't think Quin will even attempt playing different schemes. We will continue relying on the centers to clean up messes and that system will continue being abused in the playoffs by the first team that can competently play 5 out and shoot 3s.

The signing itself is good for the minimum. The signing as a signifier of what's to come is frustrating.

stitches wrote:This is setting us up to be the exact same team we were last year. I don't think Quin will even attempt playing different schemes. We will continue relying on the centers to clean up messes and that system will continue being abused in the playoffs by the first team that can competently play 5 out and shoot 3s.

The signing itself is good for the minimum. The signing as a signifier of what's to come is frustrating.

We did fine with Rudy in but got murdered with Favors. I think the idea is that Whiteside is probably not a huge downgrade from Derrick, but if we run into a small-ball lineup you play Gay at the 5 when Rudy goes off.

babyjax13 wrote:

stitches wrote:This is setting us up to be the exact same team we were last year. I don't think Quin will even attempt playing different schemes. We will continue relying on the centers to clean up messes and that system will continue being abused in the playoffs by the first team that can competently play 5 out and shoot 3s.

The signing itself is good for the minimum. The signing as a signifier of what's to come is frustrating.

We did fine with Rudy in but got murdered with Favors. I think the idea is that Whiteside is probably not a huge downgrade from Derrick, but if we run into a small-ball lineup you play Gay at the 5 when Rudy goes off.

My biggest hope is that we will actually play Rudy Gay at the 5 against 5 out. The problem is... you do that when you have good or at least competent defenders at the other positions... we don't and we are not signing any so far. Now imagine if we go 5 out... just like we did against the Clippers and the other 4 are getting abused the same way they were against the Clippers on the perimeter... only now... not only do you allow free lanes to the basket, but you also have Rudy Gay rather than Gobert protecting the paint. This is not going to go well... JMO. Unless there is serious commitment from the rest of the roster to give MUCH BETTER effort defensively and actually work on their defense rather than all of them worrying about their offense.

stitches wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:

stitches wrote:This is setting us up to be the exact same team we were last year. I don't think Quin will even attempt playing different schemes. We will continue relying on the centers to clean up messes and that system will continue being abused in the playoffs by the first team that can competently play 5 out and shoot 3s.

The signing itself is good for the minimum. The signing as a signifier of what's to come is frustrating.

We did fine with Rudy in but got murdered with Favors. I think the idea is that Whiteside is probably not a huge downgrade from Derrick, but if we run into a small-ball lineup you play Gay at the 5 when Rudy goes off.

My biggest hope is that we will actually play Rudy Gay at the 5 against 5 out. The problem is... you do that when you have good or at least competent defenders at the other positions... we don't and we are not signing any so far. Now imagine if we go 5 out... just like we did against the Clippers and the other 4 are getting abused the same way they were against the Clippers on the perimeter... only now... not only do you allow free lanes to the basket, but you also have Rudy Gay rather than Gobert protecting the paint. This is not going to go well... JMO

I imagine our lineup in that kind of series is:

Conley 34/Mitchell 14
Mitchell 20/Clarkson 28
O'neale 18/Ingles 30
Bogdanovic 32/O'neale 16
Gobert 34/Gay 14

With the Gay at center lineup being:

Conley - Mitchell - Ingles - O'neale - Gay

I think that is good enough defensively against second units. But, I do hope we try to get one more perimeter defender, maybe James Ennis?

Whiteside may also be a big enough upgrade over Favors on offense that he can punish small-ball lineups. We'd have to see in a series, but I think the idea is Gay can play center if needed (did a bit for SAS).

I don't understand this move. At all. Makes zero sense to me, especially as the Jazz have a giant, glaring weakness and this does absolutely nothing to address it.

I did not expect this at all........

Hassan has a more reliable one on one offense than Rudy if my memory serves me right. That alone opens up a plethora of opportunities, having someone as a threat down low that can at least attempt to shoot.

As for the 5 out scheme, I'm hopeful that along with Gay to cover mobile stretch bigs, Oni will elevate his game. I'm not optimistic Ingles can keep his step nor Clarkson suddenly becoming an elite 6th man with defense

Mitchell/Conley/Clarkson - Oni - O'Neale - Gay should be a speedy lineup to cover the perimeter

babyjax13 wrote:

stitches wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:
We did fine with Rudy in but got murdered with Favors. I think the idea is that Whiteside is probably not a huge downgrade from Derrick, but if we run into a small-ball lineup you play Gay at the 5 when Rudy goes off.

My biggest hope is that we will actually play Rudy Gay at the 5 against 5 out. The problem is... you do that when you have good or at least competent defenders at the other positions... we don't and we are not signing any so far. Now imagine if we go 5 out... just like we did against the Clippers and the other 4 are getting abused the same way they were against the Clippers on the perimeter... only now... not only do you allow free lanes to the basket, but you also have Rudy Gay rather than Gobert protecting the paint. This is not going to go well... JMO

I imagine our lineup in that kind of series is:

Conley 34/Mitchell 14
Mitchell 20/Clarkson 28
O'neale 18/Ingles 30
Bogdanovic 32/O'neale 16
Gobert 34/Gay 14

With the Gay at center lineup being:

Conley - Mitchell - Ingles - O'neale - Gay

I think that is good enough defensively against second units. But, I do hope we try to get one more perimeter defender, maybe James Ennis?

Bump up the starters to about 40 minutes a game IMO. Especially if they are close games. I also might be tempted to play Gay some at the 4. For some reason I want to take away minutes from Bogdanovic in that series. Not sure if that's fair to him.

Conley 38/Mitchell 10
Mitchell 30/Clarkson 18
O'neale 25/Ingles 23
Bogdanovic 18/O'neale 14/Gay 16
Gobert 40/Gay 8

Something like that... unless Oni takes a jump forward. Or Butler... Clarkson was pretty shoddy in this playoff series. If Butler shows more defensively and as a ball mover... and shooter... I might actually take away minutes from Clarkson in that series specifically.

I love Favors and overall he's a better defender than Whiteside.. that being said Whiteside is a superior shot blocker. Jazz will be able to run their funnel defense for pretty much the entire game if they want. Whiteside is probably also now our best rebounder. No question he's going to chase blocks and leave a wide open passing lane from time to time but he's a minimum backup that can provide legitimate rim protection. It won't be all these easy inside buckets when Gobert sits now. But no he's not Gobert but he's capable of filling in for 15 minutes a night and does bring more offense than Rudy does, capable of hitting a mid range or various hook shots, still a lob threat. Especially at minimum the jazz did very well.

CAE15 wrote:I love Favors and overall he's a better defender than Whiteside.. that being said Whiteside is a superior shot blocker. Jazz will be able to run their funnel defense for pretty much the entire game if they want. Whiteside is probably also now our best rebounder. No question he's going to chase blocks and leave a wide open passing lane from time to time but he's a minimum backup that can provide legitimate rim protection. It won't be all these easy inside buckets when Gobert sits now. But no he's not Gobert but he's capable of filling in for 15 minutes a night and does bring more offense than Rudy does, capable of hitting a mid range or various hook shots, still a lob threat. Especially at minimum the jazz did very well.

I agree with this. And if Whiteside is a willing student, there's no better position in the league for him to be in. A defensive scheme that helps funnel things to his impressive shot blocking ability AND the unquestionable best defensive player/center in the NBA to learn from. Usually I say "Be you. Don't try to be another player", but in this case, the man could resurrect his career if he spends his time learning & adjusting his game to try and be Gobert2.0. If he doesn't show discipline and the mental game to not simply chase blocks, then hopefully Dok can give the team some minutes at the 5 behind Rudy.

Whiteside might be interested in salvaging his career and as far as I'm concerned he is a massive defensive and offensive upgrade over Favors who frankly really never got it going on last year. If Whiteside does play to his potential and Udoka shows anything this summer I could see Udo being shipped with either Bogey or Ingles for a a rotation wing. Who that wing would be I have no idea but Zanick isn't done yet.

MTJazzv3 wrote:Whiteside might be interested in salvaging his career and as far as I'm concerned he is a massive defensive and offensive upgrade over Favors who frankly really never got it going on last year. If Whiteside does play to his potential and Udoka shows anything this summer I could see Udo being shipped with either Bogey or Ingles for a a rotation wing. Who that wing would be I have no idea but Zanick isn't done yet.

I haven't seen the length of Whiteside's contract. If it's one year, I can't imagine the Jazz are actively trying to throw Dok in a trade offer, since Hassan might be a one and done, especially if he shows he can be more than a 15mpg backup somewhere else.

Agree that using Bogey for some kind of versatile, long, wing would be ideal. (Someone like OG Anunobym, perhaps?)