Official 2021-2022 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread

[TNJazz]

I wonder why we signed Gay if we aren't playing him in the playoffs, because we didn't sign a 35 year old vet for the regular season.

Sad that 35 year old Gay is in the first year of a three year contract (third year player option), and Coach Snyder has apparently already decided that he is unplayable in the playoffs. It is extremely unlikely that Gay is going to become more playable at age 36 or 37. I think he might be able to play a few effective minutes against Dallas backup centers Kleber or Bertans with Juancho or Paschall in the lineup as well, and change up the look of the Jazz a bit.

Agreed, Rudy has an extremely effective turnaround fade 2 pointer from the side of the basket, especially when he has a shorter defender on him. Not sure why he hasn't been inserted and that move exploited in this series.

Also wonder why Whiteside only saw minutes in the first half last game. He brought it and helped give the team energy and toughness when he was on the floor.

[zero24gravity]

Repost of something I wrote elsewhere, but think belongs here:


"Coast until you get to the playoffs, be healthy, then turn it on" seemed to be the team motto this year. TBH, I think this team has put so much pressure on themselves that they simply overthink to the point of their own detriment. New ownership, new front office, losing a locker room glue guy mid-season, championship expectations, rumors (whether they are real or not) about feuding stars, etc.. I'm not trying to make excuses, but still, when your entire team feels like their jobs (in Utah) are on the line, it has mess with their heads a bit. To me, this is an example of why teams with dysfunction in the front office & constant coach turnover rarely have good teams. Utah's market can't afford dysfunction for long, so this needs to get fixed ASAP or we become the Kings.

... it's not over yet, but ....

[SoCalJazzFan]

If you were running the show, would you really dismantle this team with the risk that we could become the Kings or Thunder for the next 5-10 years?

What if instead, we got taller/longer? We often put 3 guys (Conley, Mitchell, O'Neil) on the court together that are barely over 6 feet tall. What if we were to trade Conley for a taller combo guard, such as Brogdon? Delon Wright is a free agent this summer and while he hasn't been a starter he might be able to be a good Robin.

Bogey can light it up, but is such a detriment on defense that many advanced stats I see show him being an overall net negative. We could really use someone like Covington, who can play forward or small ball center and can't be ignored on offense, but is a good defender. He'll be a FA this summer, and although the Clippers have his bird rights, I don't see how they can afford to keep him (although I am not sure how we would sign him either unless he falls to miniMLE money or we do a sign and trade for a position of greater need for them). I would be willing to trade Bogey or sign someone to play a more two way bigger forward role and move Bogey to the other forward position.

While Paschall and House were shots in the arm, advanced stats say that they really aren't very good. Replace them with better players that are just as cheap (e.g. Caleb Martin).

I get the frustration this year, but players like Mitchell and Gobert don't come around very often. Can we improve around the periphery enough to make a difference? We went from too focused on defense to swapping Rubio and Favors for turnstile offensive players Bogey and Clarkson and now have too little defense. Quinn has seemed like a mad genius at times, and just mad at other times.

I don't know, I'm just nervous about blowing it up completely.

[babyjax13]

I think your expectations for what we can get are unrealistic. There is no way to turn Conley into Brogdon, Covington isn't signing for the TPMLE, Bogey is great but we aren't getting a bigger forward, and there really isn't a realistic option in free agency that doesn't come with significant warts. We've tapped out almost all our assets, there is very little room to improve the periphery.

[bkohler]

We say players like Gobert or Mitchell don’t come around that often yet nearly half the league has a player or multiple players on that tier. They’re fantastic but not irreplaceable. Along with the fact that Goberts best years are probably in the past and he’ll be paid as a true max player which severely limits how you can build around him.

The truth is that difference between the Jazz and say the Kings isn’t the players it’s the organizational structure and culture.

If we tank in a year or two you’ll have another star that everyone is rooting for, it sucks but it’s what happens when you push all the chips into the middle of the table and miss.

[kamazilla]

Well, remember the two most recent top 5 picks in franchise history? The bottoming out strategy by no means guarantees the acquisition of star level players. Though with Ainge at the helm, I reckon prospects of a positive outcome of that approach increase significantly.

The Jazz braintrust in recent years seems to have overrelied on analytics, reflected by a team taking the floor which often lacks cohesion, passion and grit. Hopefully, regardless of approach, Ainge can bring much needed basketball soul to the management team (and start by replacing Robo-Coach Snyder).

[SoCalJazzFan]

I think your expectations for what we can get are unrealistic. There is no way to turn Conley into Brogdon, Covington isn't signing for the TPMLE, Bogey is great but we aren't getting a bigger forward, and there really isn't a realistic option in free agency that doesn't come with significant warts. We've tapped out almost all our assets, there is very little room to improve the periphery.

My expectations might be unrealistic. However, it is clear that the Pacers are looking to move on from Brogdon. It would probably be a 3 team deal. For example, it could be the Wizards (to keep Beall happy and re-sign), where they send KCP, Huramuchi and a pick to the Pacers, we send Conley to the Wiz and receive Brogdon. Maybe Kuzma and Bogey get involved in this trade. The Clippers need a better PG. White hasn't been exactly great for the Celtics, but could be for the Jazz next to DM.

According to Tony Jones talking with Spencer Checketts, https://espn700sports.com/utah-jazz/red-hot-tony-jones-talks-nba-playoffs-jazz-vs-mavs-game-6-donovans-potential-more/ (listen from roughly 20 minutes on), the Jazz will make roster changes but are not planning on trading Mitchell and are planning on being back in the playoffs next year. I'm not sure exactly how they would do it, but it sounds like not trading away DM, RG or even Quinn and improving around the periphery to me.

[babyjax13]

I think your expectations for what we can get are unrealistic. There is no way to turn Conley into Brogdon, Covington isn't signing for the TPMLE, Bogey is great but we aren't getting a bigger forward, and there really isn't a realistic option in free agency that doesn't come with significant warts. We've tapped out almost all our assets, there is very little room to improve the periphery.

My expectations might be unrealistic. However, it is clear that the Pacers are looking to move on from Brogdon. It would probably be a 3 team deal. For example, it could be the Wizards (to keep Beall happy and re-sign), where they send KCP, Huramuchi and a pick to the Pacers, we send Conley to the Wiz and receive Brogdon. Maybe Kuzma and Bogey get involved in this trade. The Clippers need a better PG. White hasn't been exactly great for the Celtics, but could be for the Jazz next to DM.

According to Tony Jones talking with Spencer Checketts, https://espn700sports.com/utah-jazz/red-hot-tony-jones-talks-nba-playoffs-jazz-vs-mavs-game-6-donovans-potential-more/ (listen from roughly 20 minutes on), the Jazz will make roster changes but are not planning on trading Mitchell and are planning on being back in the playoffs next year. I'm not sure exactly how they would do it, but it sounds like not trading away DM, RG or even Quinn and improving around the periphery to me.

I think expiring and seconds are about what we can get for Mike, but I don't have any disagreements about the general point, which is you want basically three large wings between Gobert and Mitchell. I also think what is said in that segment makes a lot of sense. I'd be happy for us to give Rudy and Donovan one more go as a duo as long as we significantly change up the stuff in the middle.

[AingesBurner]

I think your expectations for what we can get are unrealistic. There is no way to turn Conley into Brogdon, Covington isn't signing for the TPMLE, Bogey is great but we aren't getting a bigger forward, and there really isn't a realistic option in free agency that doesn't come with significant warts. We've tapped out almost all our assets, there is very little room to improve the periphery.

My expectations might be unrealistic. However, it is clear that the Pacers are looking to move on from Brogdon. It would probably be a 3 team deal. For example, it could be the Wizards (to keep Beall happy and re-sign), where they send KCP, Huramuchi and a pick to the Pacers, we send Conley to the Wiz and receive Brogdon. Maybe Kuzma and Bogey get involved in this trade. The Clippers need a better PG. White hasn't been exactly great for the Celtics, but could be for the Jazz next to DM.

According to Tony Jones talking with Spencer Checketts, https://espn700sports.com/utah-jazz/red-hot-tony-jones-talks-nba-playoffs-jazz-vs-mavs-game-6-donovans-potential-more/ (listen from roughly 20 minutes on), the Jazz will make roster changes but are not planning on trading Mitchell and are planning on being back in the playoffs next year. I'm not sure exactly how they would do it, but it sounds like not trading away DM, RG or even Quinn and improving around the periphery to me.

I think expiring and seconds are about what we can get for Mike, but I don't have any disagreements about the general point, which is you want basically three large wings between Gobert and Mitchell. I also think what is said in that segment makes a lot of sense. I'd be happy for us to give Rudy and Donovan one more go as a duo as long as we significantly change up the stuff in the middle.

Reading between the lines on what Tony said, I wouldn’t be surprised if Rudy is gone.

[zero24gravity]

I wonder why we signed Gay if we aren't playing him in the playoffs, because we didn't sign a 35 year old vet for the regular season.

Sad that 35 year old Gay is in the first year of a three year contract (third year player option), and Coach Snyder has apparently already decided that he is unplayable in the playoffs. It is extremely unlikely that Gay is going to become more playable at age 36 or 37. I think he might be able to play a few effective minutes against Dallas backup centers Kleber or Bertans with Juancho or Paschall in the lineup as well, and change up the look of the Jazz a bit.

Agreed, Rudy has an extremely effective turnaround fade 2 pointer from the side of the basket, especially when he has a shorter defender on him. Not sure why he hasn't been inserted and that move exploited in this series.

Also wonder why Whiteside only saw minutes in the first half last game. He brought it and helped give the team energy and toughness when he was on the floor.

Listened to local sports radio this morning, who said Rudy Gay was showing up to the playoff games 90 minutes before tip-off (other players about 3 hours before). This is exactly what I saw in Gay as the season went on ... he was checked out and didn't care. Glad he didn't play in the post-season, and hope the Jazz don't have to pay too much to dump him. Great signing on paper (not the years), but clearly didn't work out.

[AingesBurner]

I think your expectations for what we can get are unrealistic. There is no way to turn Conley into Brogdon, Covington isn't signing for the TPMLE, Bogey is great but we aren't getting a bigger forward, and there really isn't a realistic option in free agency that doesn't come with significant warts. We've tapped out almost all our assets, there is very little room to improve the periphery.

My expectations might be unrealistic. However, it is clear that the Pacers are looking to move on from Brogdon. It would probably be a 3 team deal. For example, it could be the Wizards (to keep Beall happy and re-sign), where they send KCP, Huramuchi and a pick to the Pacers, we send Conley to the Wiz and receive Brogdon. Maybe Kuzma and Bogey get involved in this trade. The Clippers need a better PG. White hasn't been exactly great for the Celtics, but could be for the Jazz next to DM.

According to Tony Jones talking with Spencer Checketts, https://espn700sports.com/utah-jazz/red-hot-tony-jones-talks-nba-playoffs-jazz-vs-mavs-game-6-donovans-potential-more/ (listen from roughly 20 minutes on), the Jazz will make roster changes but are not planning on trading Mitchell and are planning on being back in the playoffs next year. I'm not sure exactly how they would do it, but it sounds like not trading away DM, RG or even Quinn and improving around the periphery to me.

Problem is that we have had pansies running the front office, to afraid to make the right moves and it has killed us.

[TNJazz]

Well, not sure how anyone could believe the outcome of this game was going to be any different from the entire season. Up by 12 at 1/2, worst crunch time team in league, went back to what hasn't worked all season in 4rd quarter and Dallas took advantage, lose by 2, season over, team to be torn apart this summer.

Without a doubt the most agonizing and disappointing season I can remember. Recent playoffs were more disappointing, but this entire season has been that, especially since January where we have a losing record.

Best part about this being over is we finally get to see what the new leadership and owners plan. Granted, they don't have much, if anything, to work with, but hopefully something can come about that at least gives fans something better to cheer for.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Watch on YouTube

Thoughts?

[ForeverRDjazz]

Time has come to trade them both. If they can't both be there best and give it there all on both ends why keep either? I'd rather have a team that gives it all and lose than guys who give it 50 percent and win until playoffs come and never go anywhere come playoff times.