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Donovan Mitchell is more like Carmelo Anthony than Dwyane Wade.

During Donovan Mitchell's first year in the league, hearing the Dwyane Wade comparisons were common. Donovan was an exciting player who left it all on the court and outplayed his rookie expectations. Outside of basketball, Donovan was also compelling; the 4th of July BBQ visits were something most Jazz fans did not expect. Jazz fans were excited about their new star and how he was placing himself in the community, something we never really had seen a star do before.

Donovan had seemingly continued to progress as a leader on the court and in the state until the NBA bubble. The bubble seemed to be the undoing of Donovan. I believe that being around the prima donnas of the NBA were harmful to his growth as a player. Donovan went from a team guy to a self-centered player; this was also when rumors of Donovan wanting out ramped up. The outside influence of NBA players on Donovan has been a cancer to the team.

Reading bits and pieces from the Jazz Beat writers' twitter space, they commented on this past season of Donovan's lack of accountability that he once had. No longer was it here is what I did wrong during the game, but I just need to make those shots. I think that part of the reason Wade was brought into the Jazz organization was to teach Donovan how to win, but this seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

The Jazz leadership is also at fault, also mentioned during the Jazz BWTS, they let Donovan control the team's decision-making. When was the last time a team was successful in allowing a player to make the front office decisions? LeBron was not allowed to run the Heat organization, which has been his most successful run as an NBA player. NBA player's usually do not have the know-how to run a team while they are still players, and it's usually the players who were not seen as stars who become successful GMs after they retire: Danny Ainge, Pat Riley, James Jones, etc. Why is that?

Donovan Mitchell could have been Dwayne Wade if he had set his ego aside, but that has not been the case; he has now become Carmelo Anthony. A coach-killing player who is solely focused on big market glamor over winning. The comparison makes sense; Carmelo has never been known as a team guy, concentrates only on scoring the ball, does not accept personal responsibility, and eventually forced his way out to a big market. Maybe this comparison is unfair to Carmelo; Carmelo was actually able to take his team to the conference finals with a similar roster build to Utah's this past year.

It's time to trade Donovan for the best pieces we can; once he publicly announces he wants a trade, the Jazz will be in a terrible position.

AingesBurner wrote:Donovan Mitchell is more like Carmelo Anthony than Dwyane Wade.

During Donovan Mitchell's first year in the league, hearing the Dwyane Wade comparisons were common. Donovan was an exciting player who left it all on the court and outplayed his rookie expectations. Outside of basketball, Donovan was also compelling; the 4th of July BBQ visits were something most Jazz fans did not expect. Jazz fans were excited about their new star and how he was placing himself in the community, something we never really had seen a star do before.

Donovan had seemingly continued to progress as a leader on the court and in the state until the NBA bubble. The bubble seemed to be the undoing of Donovan. I believe that being around the prima donnas of the NBA were harmful to his growth as a player. Donovan went from a team guy to a self-centered player; this was also when rumors of Donovan wanting out ramped up. The outside influence of NBA players on Donovan has been a cancer to the team.

Reading bits and pieces from the Jazz Beat writers' twitter space, they commented on this past season of Donovan's lack of accountability that he once had. No longer was it here is what I did wrong during the game, but I just need to make those shots. I think that part of the reason Wade was brought into the Jazz organization was to teach Donovan how to win, but this seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

The Jazz leadership is also at fault, also mentioned during the Jazz BWTS, they let Donovan control the team's decision-making. When was the last time a team was successful in allowing a player to make the front office decisions? LeBron was not allowed to run the Heat organization, which has been his most successful run as an NBA player. NBA player's usually do not have the know-how to run a team while they are still players, and it's usually the players who were not seen as stars who become successful GMs after they retire: Danny Ainge, Pat Riley, James Jones, etc. Why is that?

Donovan Mitchell could have been Dwayne Wade if he had set his ego aside, but that has not been the case; he has now become Carmelo Anthony. A coach-killing player who is solely focused on big market glamor over winning. The comparison makes sense; Carmelo has never been known as a team guy, concentrates only on scoring the ball, does not accept personal responsibility, and eventually forced his way out to a big market. Maybe this comparison is unfair to Carmelo; Carmelo was actually able to take his team to the conference finals with a similar roster build to Utah's this past year.

It's time to trade Donovan for the best pieces we can; once he publicly announces he wants a trade, the Jazz will be in a terrible position.

Mitchell is under contract and just can't force his way out anymore than KD can. I do think the jazz has made if clear he's not running the team but plays for the team and if they wish to move on will move on in there own time not Mitchell's.

Something definitely changed around that bubble season, and you might be correct. Or it could be Donovan became more of a germ a phobe like half the country during the pandemic. That would explain his parting with Gobert. That could explain why he has had less unexpected visits around the community. Hopefully whatever it is he snaps out of it or we trade him soon.

dr0welf wrote:Something definitely changed around that bubble season, and you might be correct. Or it could be Donovan became more of a germ a phobe like half the country during the pandemic. That would explain his parting with Gobert. That could explain why he has had less unexpected visits around the community. Hopefully whatever it is he snaps out of it or we trade him soon.

Sometimes you have to be an adult and get over it.

There has been quite a bit of talk surrounding DM and his presumed trade demands being on the horizon. It is true that he is (was) the second best player on this team, IMHO, which now makes him the best, that doesn't mean that he is of superstar caliber where he gets to demand a trade. To assume he is on the same tier as others before him who have manipulated the system into trading them I think is a reach. Every teams a best player. Not even team has a top tier player that can command a trade. The Jazz made an error by giving DM some control. It seems as if Ainge has regained that responsibility and hopefully Mitchell will grow as a quality player on the verge of superstardom and allow his coaching staff to make him such. I don't believe he is all that close to that status. He came in and won over the community through his outreach and his eagerness to learn and has improved his offensive game every season. He wowed coaches during the summer camp, dazzled everyone with his offensive abilities, won the dunk contest, and displayed his competitiveness for the rookie of the year award. Remember, he was touted as one of the best defensive players taken in that years draft. That drive and community spirit suddenly changed as has been discussed on this board and I think it has hurt him as a player.

Let's see if the new voices of Ainge, Zanik, and Hardy have a solid impact and this team grows in a way not possible with the previous makeup. I place the major portion of that responsibility on Mitchell. If he truly is the leader, then he will be that person and rise to the opportunity of leading and not sulking and running away (via trade demand).

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Any meaning behind this or Donovan Mitchell just messing around ?

AingesBurner wrote:Donovan Mitchell is more like Carmelo Anthony than Dwyane Wade.


It's time to trade Donovan for the best pieces we can; once he publicly announces he wants a trade, the Jazz will be in a terrible position.

I think you are completely out of touch with reality there. Mitchell is the equivalent to Wade. The difference is Wade had the most dominant big man is Shaq. Once Shaq left, Wade and the Heat were just a good team.

Then becoming relevant again Wade became the side kick to LeBron, Bosh.

Mitchell has never and in Utah will never have a teammate as good (or close to as good) as any of those guys.

Wade and Mitchell have/had pretty much the same success when Wade did not have other top players with him.

Madskillzz024 wrote:

Read on Twitter

?cxt=HHwWgICwtf6S3-8qAAAA

Any meaning behind this or Donovan Mitchell just messing around ?

Who knows? Can be anything...

How many picks do you guys have available? And do you prefer to give up RJ or all of Topin, Quickley and Cam Reddish? Actually... scratch that... how do you feel about giving up all of them?

LOL @ Mitchell being Wade... yeah, he's Wade if Wade wasn't one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and instead was one of the worst.

Madskillzz024 wrote:

Read on Twitter

?cxt=HHwWgICwtf6S3-8qAAAA

Any meaning behind this or Donovan Mitchell just messing around ?

I’m dying if he’s complaining about the Gobert trade, he iced Rudy out on offense all year.

stitches wrote:LOL @ Mitchell being Wade... yeah, he's Wade if Wade wasn't one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and instead was one of the worst.

Yep, that’s why I made the Melo comparison.

AingesBurner wrote:

stitches wrote:LOL @ Mitchell being Wade... yeah, he's Wade if Wade wasn't one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and instead was one of the worst.

Yep, that’s why I made the Melo comparison.

Yeah, I get what you mean and I don't take it as an insult to Mitchell. Melo used to be a great offensive player. But he was by no means the two-way star that Wade was.

I come in peace

Is

Kyle Lowry (to flip to a 3rd team - Pelicans, Dallas, Washington may want him)
Tyler Herro
Nikola Jovic
Duncan Robinson
Omer Yurtseven
2023 Unprotected 1st
2027 Unprotected 1st
2029 Protected 1st
2026 Pick Swap
2028 Pick Swap

Enough for Mitchell and Bojan?

HerroBalls wrote:I come in peace

Is

Kyle Lowry (to flip to a 3rd team - Pelicans, Dallas, Washington may want him)
Tyler Herro
Nikola Jovic
Duncan Robinson
Omer Yurtseven
2023 Unprotected 1st
2027 Unprotected 1st
2029 Protected 1st
2026 Pick Swap
2028 Pick Swap

Enough for Mitchell and Bojan?

No, not eating Robinson’s contract, do you not own your 2025 pick? Also missing Strus. Also your 2029 pick is likely your most valuable and you’re protecting it.

HerroBalls wrote:I come in peace

Is

Kyle Lowry (to flip to a 3rd team - Pelicans, Dallas, Washington may want him)
Tyler Herro
Nikola Jovic
Duncan Robinson
Omer Yurtseven
2023 Unprotected 1st
2027 Unprotected 1st
2029 Protected 1st
2026 Pick Swap
2028 Pick Swap

Enough for Mitchell and Bojan?

So the Jazz are going to take on all of your bad salary + the guy that you're hesitant to extend and send back our two best players?

Can we trade Beasley/Conely for Bam?

HerroBalls wrote:I come in peace

Is

Kyle Lowry (to flip to a 3rd team - Pelicans, Dallas, Washington may want him)
Tyler Herro
Nikola Jovic
Duncan Robinson
Omer Yurtseven
2023 Unprotected 1st
2027 Unprotected 1st
2029 Protected 1st
2026 Pick Swap
2028 Pick Swap

Enough for Mitchell and Bojan?

Keep the 26 swap and unprotect the 29 pick and the deal is close to fair value.

WinterSoldier wrote:

HerroBalls wrote:I come in peace

Is

Kyle Lowry (to flip to a 3rd team - Pelicans, Dallas, Washington may want him)
Tyler Herro
Nikola Jovic
Duncan Robinson
Omer Yurtseven
2023 Unprotected 1st
2027 Unprotected 1st
2029 Protected 1st
2026 Pick Swap
2028 Pick Swap

Enough for Mitchell and Bojan?

Keep the 26 swap and unprotect the 29 pick and the deal is close to fair value.

The Jazz would be taking back $45M in bad salary with Duncan/Lowry and the best piece coming back is Herro who is due for an extension. Considering the Jazz would have Conley/Lowry/Beverly on the roster they'd basically lose any leverage in a potential Lowry trade because teams would know that they have to move him so they'd likely have to attach a pick to dump his contract.

This would be one of the worst trades in NBA history.

jrj202 wrote:

WinterSoldier wrote:

HerroBalls wrote:I come in peace

Is

Kyle Lowry (to flip to a 3rd team - Pelicans, Dallas, Washington may want him)
Tyler Herro
Nikola Jovic
Duncan Robinson
Omer Yurtseven
2023 Unprotected 1st
2027 Unprotected 1st
2029 Protected 1st
2026 Pick Swap
2028 Pick Swap

Enough for Mitchell and Bojan?

Keep the 26 swap and unprotect the 29 pick and the deal is close to fair value.

The Jazz would be taking back $45M in bad salary with Duncan/Lowry and the best piece coming back is Herro who is due for an extension. Considering the Jazz would have Conley/Lowry/Beverly on the roster they'd basically lose any leverage in a potential Lowry trade because teams would know that they have to move him so they'd likely have to attach a pick to get dump his contract.

This would be one of the worst trades in NBA history.

I would do it under the condition.
Jazz get Jovic, Robinson, Nance, Kleber, Hayes, Daniels, 23 uprotected, 27 unprotected, 28 swap, 29 unprotected.
Nance, Kleber, Hayes are all expiring. Robinson is a bad contract but there needs to be salary coming back. Jovic and Daniels are both promising rookies and basically equal 2 more picks.
Mavs get Lowry.
Heat get Mitchell, Bojan.
Pelicans get Herro, Hardaway.

WinterSoldier wrote:I would do it under the condition.
Jazz get Jovic, Robinson, Nance, Kleber, Hayes, Daniels, 23 uprotected, 27 unprotected, 28 swap, 29 unprotected.
Nance, Kleber, Hayes are all expiring. Robinson is a bad contract but there needs to be salary coming back. Jovic and Daniels are both promising rookies and basically equal 2 more picks.
Mavs get Lowry.
Heat get Mitchell, Bojan.
Pelicans get Herro, Hardaway.

The Jazz currently have $53M (Bojan/Beasley/Beverly/NAW) in expiring deals that they can trade or just let expire next offseason. And they're slated to have another $48M in expiring deals next year (Clarkson/Conley/Vanderbilt/Gay) and Clarkson has a player option + only 14/24M on Conley's deal is guaranteed. The only players they're financially tied to after this season are Don/Conley/Clarkson (PO)/Gay/Bolmaro(TO)/Udoka(TO)/Kessler and two years from now is Don/Kessler.

So with that in mind there's really no reason for the Jazz to trade for players with expiring contracts for salary matching purposes if they're not guys we'd want here going forward, we already have as much roster flexibility as any team in the NBA over the next two seasons. And just restocked our draft capital with the picks that we received in the Rudy trade.

I personally don't really value Jovic that highly, he was the 27th pick for a reason. And if those picks are coming from the Heat they're not that valuable considering Miami has only picked in the lottery 5/20 seasons and they'd have Bam/Donovan to build around for the foreseeable future while also clearing all of the bad contracts off of their books.

If you're trading Donovan you need to acquire a young foundational piece on a rookie contract back.

This would also be a pretty terrible return for the Pelicans.

jrj202 wrote:

WinterSoldier wrote:I would do it under the condition.
Jazz get Jovic, Robinson, Nance, Kleber, Hayes, Daniels, 23 uprotected, 27 unprotected, 28 swap, 29 unprotected.
Nance, Kleber, Hayes are all expiring. Robinson is a bad contract but there needs to be salary coming back. Jovic and Daniels are both promising rookies and basically equal 2 more picks.
Mavs get Lowry.
Heat get Mitchell, Bojan.
Pelicans get Herro, Hardaway.

The Jazz currently have $53M (Bojan/Beasley/Beverly/NAW) in expiring deals that they can trade or just let expire next offseason. And they're slated to have another $48M in expiring deals next year (Clarkson/Conley/Vanderbilt/Gay) and Clarkson has a player option + only 14/24M on Conley's deal is guaranteed. The only players they're financially tied to after this season are Don/Conley/Clarkson (PO)/Gay/Bolmaro(TO)/Udoka(TO)/Kessler and two years from now is Don/Kessler.

So with that in mind there's really no reason for the Jazz to trade for players with expiring contracts for salary matching purposes if they're not guys we'd want here going forward, we already have as much roster flexibility as any team in the NBA over the next two seasons. And just restocked our draft capital with the picks that we received in the Rudy trade.

I personally don't really value Jovic that highly, he was the 27th pick for a reason. And if those picks are coming from the Heat they're not that valuable considering Miami has only picked in the lottery 5/20 seasons and they'd have Bam/Donovan to build around for the foreseeable future while also clearing all of the bad contracts off of their books.

If you're trading Donovan you need to acquire a young foundational piece on a rookie contract back.

This would also be a pretty terrible return for the Pelicans.

I'm not suggesting they do the trade I'm only saying that it is close to fair value. I will agree I don't really want to trade with the Heat because I do think they will always be too good for the picks to be worthwhile.