Game 1: Utah Jazz (0-) vs Denver Nuggets (0-0)

[Inigo Montoya]

The regular season is upon us, and the Jazz will begin their challenging journey towards securing Victor Wembanyama in earnest on Thursday, October 20. I wish them luck.

Ordinarily this type of game would have playoff seeding implications but this is not an issue this season, so let's find whatever enjoyment we can wherever we can find it and just enjoy the ride.

[TNJazz]

Trying to decide if I want to renew my League Pass subscription for this year. Going to be tough. How strange is it going to be, after all those winning seasons with Sloan and company, to have the mind set of losing on purpose for a hope of a better future. I am interested in seeing how much this strategy impacts the fan base. At least with the culture of never giving up, even though winning wasn't even a possibility until quite late in Sloan's tenure. Let's hope the take a step back to make a leap forward works.

[red4hf]

Trying to decide if I want to renew my League Pass subscription for this year. Going to be tough. How strange is it going to be, after all those winning seasons with Sloan and company, to have the mind set of losing on purpose for a hope of a better future. I am interested in seeing how much this strategy impacts the fan base. At least with the culture of never giving up, even though winning wasn't even a possibility until quite late in Sloan's tenure. Let's hope the take a step back to make a leap forward works.

I renewed..... I think it's worth it to see the young guys play, and also to see how Hardy is going to be as a Coach.......

And I'll be watching a bunch of Wolves and Cavs games as well........

[Inigo Montoya]

[vryadli]

Personally, I don't believe in tanking as a policy. The full reshaping of a team is one thing, maneuvering for losses on the court is quite different. Working to lose with given players and coach is very bad karma. It is far too easy to get - and then it takes too much time to lose a losing culture. All windows you get for your great peaks will close before that.

[FJS]

Jazz were moved to utah when I was born, playing his first nba game in November 1979, in my birthday more or less.
I'm really afraid I will not see them win a chip in my lifetime.

[Inigo Montoya]

Personally, I don't believe in tanking as a policy. The full reshaping of a team is one thing, maneuvering for losses on the court is quite different.

It's kind of one and the same imho. Fully reshaping the team is a maneuver for losses on the court that was done purposely by the front office. At least that's how I see it. I don't think the coach will try to throw games or that the players will try to lose. The team was just weakened on purpose so they could lose a lot of games even when they play to win.

Working to lose with given players and coach is very bad karma. It is far too easy to get - and then it takes too much time to lose a losing culture. All windows you get for your great peaks will close before that.

The losing culture argument is one that I always have trouble understanding. It is very likely that in 4-5 years none of the players we have today will be on the roster, so how will the losing culture persist? Even in these circumstances, the coach and players will try to win. And what about the "winning culture" the franchise cultivated for decades? Does it go away, never to return because of one year of tanking? Does one year of tanking trumps decades of "winning culture"?

The bad karma argument, I kind of get.

[FJS]

People tend to overrate tanking. Spurs did well but they have a former mvp injured. Then Teams with years tanking like sixers did not better than jazz in last years.

We’ll see


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[Inigo Montoya]

People tend to overrate tanking. Spurs did well but they have a former mvp injured. Then Teams with years tanking like sixers did not better than jazz in last years.

We’ll see


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I'd argue that the Sixers' tanking did work. You tank to get franchise player-level talent, and they got that with Embiid (who is a perennial MVP candidate) and Simmons, and they also had the #1 pick that was Fultz (which didn't pan out, but you tank so you could get the #1 pick, what you do with it is another story).

Of course, you also have to build a good team around the franchise players you get, and that's where the Sixers failed (in terms of winning a championship), but tanking allowed them to be put in the best position possible to get franchise-level talent on their roster.

[ForeverRDjazz]

Jazz were moved to utah when I was born, playing his first nba game in November 1979, in my birthday more or less.
I'm really afraid I will not see them win a chip in my lifetime.

If and I mean big IF Jazz land Victor you'll see top free agents sign with Utah and the rebuild will go quicker than most think? Long run this might be quickest way for Jazz to win a ring. either way this was the choice of owner and GM. Buckle up it's going to be a bumpy ride this year. 17 wins.

[Inigo Montoya]

17 wins.

I like the optimism

[vryadli]

It's kind of one and the same imho. Fully reshaping the team is a maneuver for losses on the court that was done purposely by the front office. At least that's how I see it. I don't think the coach will try to throw games or that the players will try to lose. The team was just weakened on purpose so they could lose a lot of games even when they play to win.

Working to lose with given players and coach is very bad karma. It is far too easy to get - and then it takes too much time to lose a losing culture. All windows you get for your great peaks will close before that.

The losing culture argument is one that I always have trouble understanding. It is very likely that in 4-5 years none of the players we have today will be on the roster, so how will the losing culture persist? Even in these circumstances, the coach and players will try to win. And what about the "winning culture" the franchise cultivated for decades? Does it go away, never to return because of one year of tanking? Does one year of tanking trumps decades of "winning culture"?

The bad karma argument, I kind of get.

Om my side I can't understand "It is very likely that in 4-5 years none of the players we have today will be on the roster, so how will the losing culture persist?" Currently there are no people on the Earth who were "on the roster" 200 hundred years ago and still a lot of cultural traits persist. Given that, I fail to see how such question can occur.

And as for FF and other teams who get "franchise player-level talent" through tanking by design, the losing culture does for them exactly that: prevent them from to build a good team around the franchise players you get, and that's where the Sixers failed (in terms of winning a championship)

Of course one has to remember that there are 2 different type of tanking. One thing is when the team already has a lot of old and injure players and doesn't fight in 2-5 games in the end of season. It is not so harmful for team spirit.

To dismantle a pretty decent team, to lose "by design" for the whole season (or more) is completely different thing. The consequences typically last from 6 to 20 years, so your "franchise player-level talent" hardly will be on the roster when and if you will shake off the losing habits.

There are exceptions, like Giannis who lasts long enough in MB, but they are about as rare as NBA title obtained without superstars through luck and team work.

[Denizfeital]

Hey everyone.

A few notes my side:

#1 I am all in for Victor Wembanyama. And it seems the #2 prospect is highly valuable as well. The tank is on, please.

#2 I have already cancelled my NBA League Pass. It's like US$4,00 for 8 games per month. It is not much.

#3 This is going to be the weirdest season ever for a Jazz fan. Will we be rooting against the Jazz while watching them? That is why I cancelled the League Pass, I can't do it.

Let's see how it goes. I don't know what to do.

Regards,

[FJS]

Really weird...
I can get my LP per 50€ (special offer from Spanish operator) and I can watch every single game, but last year was watching only jazz games and some random game outside.
I am not decided If I want to renew it, being cheap... but man, the league is watered and my Jazz can give me only stomachaches.

[FJS]

People tend to overrate tanking. Spurs did well but they have a former mvp injured. Then Teams with years tanking like sixers did not better than jazz in last years.

We’ll see

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I'd argue that the Sixers' tanking did work. You tank to get franchise player-level talent, and they got that with Embiid (who is a perennial MVP candidate) and Simmons, and they also had the #1 pick that was Fultz (which didn't pan out, but you tank so you could get the #1 pick, what you do with it is another story).

Of course, you also have to build a good team around the franchise players you get, and that's where the Sixers failed (in terms of winning a championship), but tanking allowed them to be put in the best position possible to get franchise-level talent on their roster.

Sixers
Years of crap
2014 19-63
2015 18-64
2016 10-72
2017 28-54


Then
2018 2nd round exit
2019 2nd round exit
2020 1st round exit
2021 2nd round exit
2022 2nd round exit



Jazz since 2017

2017 2nd round
2018 2nd round
2019 1st round
2020 1st round
2021 2nd round
2022 1st round

So 4 years of crap... then several 1st and high picks (Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Simmons, Fultz), great trades (Harris, Butler, Harden for example) and they still have not done much better than Jazz in those years, playing in a least competitive conference.

I understand what you mean, they have done those movement due to have great picks, but still you have to have luck.
Noel, Okafor and Fultz were bad. Simmons is a headcase and Embiid it's not healthy for long time.

Jazz had his 2 better players without tanking in Stockton & Malone. Then they get Deron with a high pick, but the rest of the roster were added in free agency (Okur, Harpring, Boozer) or late picks like AK.

Finally we traded Deron for a former 3rd pick (Favors) and our own high picks were Kanter (3rd) and Exum (5th). We get Hayward when we were still a strong team.

Then, other time we get our best players in a late pick and mid pick, that weren't ours in Gobert and Mitchell.

If we suck and we chose with high picks players like Kanter, Exum, Noel, Okafor, Fultz... we are going to be bad for a while. Probably Gobert, Mitchell grew because they were playing with a roster who did want to compete.

Probably Stockton grew in a star because he had Rickey Green with him. Maybe Malone learn something with Adrian Dantley.

I don't like this thing of tanking.

I understand... when you do what you are doing and doesn't work, you have to proof something elses... but man, I think this is gonna be a disaster.

[mg]

I'm technically in the Jazz tv market so their games are blacked out on league pass. Ofc my tv provider doesn't even offer AT&T sportsnet. Not too upset over it this season tbh.

Anyway if taking one step back ultimately leads to a championship I'm for it at this point. Victor seems like such a rare prospect. If they are going to take a step back this would be the time to do it.

[mg]

Yeah alot of playoff teams seem to play half speed the first few months of the season. Wouldn't be shocked if the Jazz pull a few early wins. Ofc they could get blown out of the water. Who knows.

[Rauxcee]

literally came here to say the same thing. Trap games are now the ones we win.


I don't expect a win tonight. Don't even know what I'm looking forward to either.

[Inigo Montoya]

First game of the season, let's go!

[red4hf]

Conley and Clarkson doing their best for the tank......