Realistic FA/Offseason Targets

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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#21 » by AingesBurner » Fri Jun 2, 2023 10:12 pm

D Rog wrote:Looking for opinions. Are there guys in the league that are FAs or RFAs 28 years or younger that could play 30 minutes a night as the PG / combo guard for the Jazz and not break the bank? I don't think there is a star out there the Jazz can get as a PG without giving everything away. I also don't want to spend the 9th pick on a PG that may or may not be a long term solution... For some reason Trey Burkes (also taken as the #9 pick) comes to mind as an example how not to spend your #9 pick. I believe a guy named Giannis was taken about 6 picks later in that 2013 draft.

Donte DiVncenzo?
Gabe Vincent?
Coby White?


Or just roll with Kris Dunn.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#22 » by SoCalJazzFan » Fri Jun 2, 2023 10:38 pm

AingesBurner wrote:
D Rog wrote:Looking for opinions. Are there guys in the league that are FAs or RFAs 28 years or younger that could play 30 minutes a night as the PG / combo guard for the Jazz and not break the bank? I don't think there is a star out there the Jazz can get as a PG without giving everything away. I also don't want to spend the 9th pick on a PG that may or may not be a long term solution... For some reason Trey Burkes (also taken as the #9 pick) comes to mind as an example how not to spend your #9 pick. I believe a guy named Giannis was taken about 6 picks later in that 2013 draft.

Donte DiVncenzo?
Gabe Vincent?
Coby White?


Or just roll with Kris Dunn.

The free agent PG market makes no sense for the Jazz right now. Draft a PG and hope they take over, but Dunn could be a diamond in the rough, albeit an older one.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#23 » by BigJimFinn » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:47 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:
D Rog wrote:Looking for opinions. Are there guys in the league that are FAs or RFAs 28 years or younger that could play 30 minutes a night as the PG / combo guard for the Jazz and not break the bank? I don't think there is a star out there the Jazz can get as a PG without giving everything away. I also don't want to spend the 9th pick on a PG that may or may not be a long term solution... For some reason Trey Burkes (also taken as the #9 pick) comes to mind as an example how not to spend your #9 pick. I believe a guy named Giannis was taken about 6 picks later in that 2013 draft.

Donte DiVncenzo?
Gabe Vincent?
Coby White?


Or just roll with Kris Dunn.

The free agent PG market makes no sense for the Jazz right now. Draft a PG and hope they take over, but Dunn could be a diamond in the rough, albeit an older one.


I was happy to see Dunn work so well as a late addition to a team that lacked a PG, but also happy that Jazz didn't fall in love by giving him a long or overpaid contract. He should be OK as a backup, but as a 30 minute starter he would set a hard ceiling on your offense (and likely be less effective as a defender). I watched him play for the Bulls with Lauri for 3 years, so I won't be easily convinced he's now a totally different player.

The obvious main problem is his lack of shooting threat. A main ballhandler who can't take threes of the dribble basically cripples your PnR game from the beginning, and any guard who takes 2 three-point attempts per 36 will hurt your spacing. Dunn is a career 31% shooter on very low volume of only catch-n-shoot 3s. He made 2 pull-up three-pointers for the Jazz; not 2 per game, but 2 in the 22 games he played. He shot a remarkable 47% on mostly wide open standstill looks; I can believe he's worked on his shot in the long years away from the spotlight, but that small-sample excellence is surely not sustainable, and on such low volume it wouldn't add much value anyway.

The other small-sample issue is the area where he actually does take shots. Over 70% of his attempts come in the paint, with short jump hooks, flip shots and floaters usually off two feet and after several patient dribbles. That's good, because that's where he is most effective: 52% with the Jazz in the 3-10' range, again 10% above his career level. At the rim, he made a fabulous 77%, or 18% above his career average, and this must have been a mirage. He's cut off almost all the mid-range jumpers he used to take, which is a very good thing and likely a permanent improvement. Again the lack of a pull-up threat just negates his ability to run PnR effectively.

So I believe that Dunn can provide competent ball security and passing as a PG and be a very effective defender especially pressuring weaker ballhandlers and creating havoc. He should be able to score against second units, just not at the high level of efficiency he showed for the Jazz. If you trust him to be a starting PG for a team trying to make playoffs, you will be disappointed. His scoring efficiency would drop further against first unit defenses, and his aggressive gambling D would be punished more often.

Summary for TL;DR: good as a backup PG and situational defender, bad as a starter.
Jazz need a much better lead ballhandler/playmaker than any of Dunn, THT, Sexton or JC.
I don't see any of the guys suggested by the OP as the answer, either. None of them are really playmakers.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#24 » by ForeverRDjazz » Sat Jun 3, 2023 10:59 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:
D Rog wrote:Looking for opinions. Are there guys in the league that are FAs or RFAs 28 years or younger that could play 30 minutes a night as the PG / combo guard for the Jazz and not break the bank? I don't think there is a star out there the Jazz can get as a PG without giving everything away. I also don't want to spend the 9th pick on a PG that may or may not be a long term solution... For some reason Trey Burkes (also taken as the #9 pick) comes to mind as an example how not to spend your #9 pick. I believe a guy named Giannis was taken about 6 picks later in that 2013 draft.

Donte DiVncenzo?
Gabe Vincent?
Coby White?


Or just roll with Kris Dunn.

The free agent PG market makes no sense for the Jazz right now. Draft a PG and hope they take over, but Dunn could be a diamond in the rough, albeit an older one.

Don't think Dunn is older? Kid is still only 26 and really 24 when you take into account time missed form injuries. Drafted a believe 5th. I believe he's just about to hit prime years. But is he a true starter or do you draft someone at 9 for point guard? I'd take best player on board keep Lauri M. stay at 9 and keep 16 because this draft is so deep those picks hold lots of value. Plus the 2nd and 3rd picks might not ever reach Lauri level of play last year. Portland trades there pick only player we have is LM worth that level of a pick, plus we'd have to throw in 28 or higher. Year we landed Trey Burkes we gave up two picks and both players turned out better than Trey. Giannis was on my radar that year and was being compared to Magic like. We blew our picks on Burkes. then got lucky buying a pick and landed Rudy. Had we stayed put we could've had both Giannis and Rudy is a very weak draft. Stay put this year keep picks.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#25 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat Jun 3, 2023 12:22 pm

ForeverRDjazz wrote:Don't think Dunn is older? Kid is still only 26 and really 24 when you take into account time missed form injuries.

Dunn is 29.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#26 » by Cappy_Smurf » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:01 pm

ForeverRDjazz wrote:Don't think Dunn is older? Kid is still only 26 and really 24 when you take into account time missed form injuries.


Lol, if only it worked that way. Donte Exum would be 9 years old.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#27 » by SoCalJazzFan » Mon Jun 5, 2023 5:25 pm

^^

A lot of discussion about THT, Dunn, lack of free agent pgs, which just confirms the Jazz need to draft the PGOTF. Will they get a better chance than this draft?

The draft best player available line is lazy, IMO. If a center were the best player available at #9, would the Jazz draft him? Probably not. It could come down to a difficult decision if certain forwards are still there at #9, though.

Unless THT opts in and makes great strides over the summer, I see Dunn as the starting PG next year, at least at the beginning of the season. Does he maintain his shooting from his gleague and Jazz time last year (38/87 for 43.7% 3pt% over 30 games) or revert back towards his mean? If he can maintain his shooting, he is absolutely a starting PG, although at 29 he is not your PGOTF in a rebuild.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#28 » by Gert42 » Mon Jun 5, 2023 5:56 pm

I don't know, if Black is gone at #8 hypothetically and the next best PG is ranked around 15th on their big board I think they have to go with their rankings and if that guy is there at #16 so be it.

I would like a PGOTF, but I also (hope) the Jazz don't pick this high ever again, and if that means a non PG that becomes an All-NBA guy is taken at #9 thats the best route almost every time.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#29 » by mg » Tue Jun 6, 2023 2:58 pm

Honestly with this new CBA I can see a ton of guards getting traded in the next 2 years. Most teams don't even roll out a guy who is strictly a PG anymore.

It's been proven for many years that BPA is typically the right way to go in the lottery.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#30 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Jun 6, 2023 9:42 pm

mg wrote:Honestly with this new CBA I can see a ton of guards getting traded in the next 2 years. Most teams don't even roll out a guy who is strictly a PG anymore.

It's been proven for many years that BPA is typically the right way to go in the lottery.

So, should Charlotte pick Scoot, even though they have a young LeMelo, instead of Miller, just because Scoot is deemed at the moment the better player?

Should Detriot pick either Scoot or Amen, if one of them falls, even though they have a young, promising backcourt that they already drafted?

I think that it can be more nuanced than always picking the BPA.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#31 » by mudsak » Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:30 pm

Reeves would be a great target, and fit the timeline. He's got great size/length, and he's also a really high BBIQ player with efficiency. He kinda reminds me of a slightly smaller/more athletic version of Ingles. His BBIQ I think is his best asset. I do think the Lakers will do everything they can to retain him... so whoever steals him is probably going to have to pay.

Cam Johnson would be my personal ideal target, but I think the he will be the Nets' number 1 priority this summer. No way they're letting him go. I just love the idea of a Kessler, CamJ, Lauri front court.

I've actually warmed up to the idea of maybe going after Cobie White. He quietly made some strides this past season. He's also a good size for his position. I think I'd rather take a swing on Cobie White than give THT another year (albeit THT has the option...no way he's turning it down imo).

Truth be told, the FA market this offseason is pretty meh. Not much out there that interests me in relation to where the timeline and current needs are for our roster. I'd rather just take on a couple of expiring guys this year and give our drafted rookies a ton of playing time than go after most of the FA's available this offseason. Maybe retain flexibility, let the young guys cook, and try to bolster the roster the following offseason.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#32 » by mg » Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:23 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
mg wrote:Honestly with this new CBA I can see a ton of guards getting traded in the next 2 years. Most teams don't even roll out a guy who is strictly a PG anymore.

It's been proven for many years that BPA is typically the right way to go in the lottery.

So, should Charlotte pick Scoot, even though they have a young LeMelo, instead of Miller, just because Scoot is deemed at the moment the better player?

Should Detriot pick either Scoot or Amen, if one of them falls, even though they have a young, promising backcourt that they already drafted?

I think that it can be more nuanced than always picking the BPA.


Sure but if Scoot and Amen are about even on Charlotte's board that's when positional need should be the deciding factor. FWIW in Charlotte's case I think maybe Scoot and LaMelo can play together. It certainly seems alot of the so called draft experts have Miller in the same tier as Scoot. I personally value wings alot higher than guards but in this case I personally believe Scoot is the better all around talent.

As for Detroit I think it's the same case. They can draft Whitmore/Jarace who are on or at least near the same tier as Amen.

If there is a clear difference go bpa and figure out fit later. The biggest blunders typically happen when you draft pass over the superior talent.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#33 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:06 am

I wouldn't mind giving FVV a 3 year contract and seeing if he can rehab some value.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#34 » by SoCalJazzFan » Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:42 pm

This is just the faintest whiff of smoke at this point, but interesting.
https://www.si.com/nba/jazz/news/jazz-news-trade-rumors-hawks-dejounte-murray
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#35 » by SoCalJazzFan » Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:43 pm

babyjax13 wrote:I wouldn't mind giving FVV a 3 year contract and seeing if he can rehab some value.

Personally, I would rather draft a pg this draft and bring him along than give FVV over $30M per year.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#36 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:44 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I wouldn't mind giving FVV a 3 year contract and seeing if he can rehab some value.

Personally, I would rather draft a pg this draft and bring him along than give FVV over $30M per year.

I doubt he gets paid that much.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#37 » by D Rog » Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:54 pm

Saw an article about Hawks possibly moving Dejounte Murray. I liked him before he was traded to Atlanta. I would love him as a PG for the Jazz. My concern is he becomes a FA after next season. Not sure if the CBA allows Atlanta to extend the contract then trade him.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#38 » by Jiipee84 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:29 pm

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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#39 » by AingesBurner » Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:51 pm

FVV seems like a bad move for Utah. I’d rather keep our powder dry.
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Re: Realistic FA/Offseason Targets 

Post#40 » by Wolverine » Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:19 am

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