Is Deron Williams better than John Stockton was from 97-03?

Post #1 » by **FJS** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:17 pm

John Stockton:
97-98 FG .528 3PT .429 FT .827 .RPG 2.60 APG 8.5 SPG 1.39 BPG .16 TO 2.52 PPG 12.0
98-99 FG.488 3PT.320 FT.811 RPG 2.90 APG 7.5 SPG 1.62 BPG.26 TO 2.20 PPG 11.1
99-00 FG .501 3PT.355 FT.860 RPG 2.60 APG 8.6 SPG 1.74 BPG .18 TO 2.18 PPG 12.1
00-01 FG.504 3PT.462 FT.817 RPG 2.80 APG 8.7 SPG 1.61 BPG .26 TO 2.48 PPG 11.5
01-02 FG .517 3PT.321 FT.857 RPG 3.20 APG 8.2 SPG 1.85 BPG .29 TO 2.54 PPG 13.4
02-03 FG.483 3PT.363 FT.826 RPG 2.50 APG 7.7 SPG 1.67 BPG .20 TO 2.22 PPG 10.8

Deron Williams:

07-08 FG 51.4 3PT 40.5 FT 79.5 RPG 3,0 APG 9,7 SPG 1,1 BPG 0,3 TO 3,50 PPG 19,1

hoops4life · Post #2 » by **hoops4life** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:28 pm

yes and no

Lava Rock Kid · Post #3 » by **Lava Rock Kid** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:35 pm

Consider how stockton's stats would of looked like if he had a talented team like this? How would players like keefe, russel, anderson, otag, compare to todays team. Dwill has it easier in my opinion because of the players around him.

Now, I would have to say that
Stock advantage
Defense, Passing,

Deron Advantage
Scoring, Leadership,

Which player could probably lead their team to the title?
I think Deron because he seams to have a killer instinct when the team gets down, he caries them back up. I think Malone did that in the past with Stocktons passing of course.

hoops4life · Post #4 » by **hoops4life** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:38 pm

I think that was part of Stockton's downfall. He had the leadership and the killer instinct but would let Karl take the reigns. Stockton should've tried to score more.

Post #5 » by **FJS** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:55 pm

OF course, we are talking about a John Stockton with 35 to 41 years...

Lava Rock Kid · Post #6 » by **Lava Rock Kid** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:17 am

So will Boozer's get close to Malone's production? Night in and night out with no injuries.

erudite23 · Post #7 » by **erudite23** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:01 am

This is an obvious yes, imo.

Stock really peaked during the turn of the decade from 88-92, while Malone continued to get or at least hold strong. Stockton was still an awesome player by the late 90s, but Deron Williams is already playing some of the best PG ball we've seen since the PG heyday from 87-91. Easy edge D-Will

Malone Strong · Post #8 » by **Malone Strong** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:09 am

MPG is the stat I would like to see, FJS. I think MPG and age tell the story. Stockton's assists would easily stay 10+ if he got 39mpg IMO...

HouseofBoozer · Post #9 » by **HouseofBoozer** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:50 am

I think they're two totally different players making it very hard to compare them.

GP · Post #10 » by GP » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:10 am

If I had to pick between the two, I would take stockton, while I think deron is getting there, he isn't the playmaker as stockton was(any year). again the mpg is a good point, I would like to see that too. Maybe do a stat line per 40min.

Post #11 » by **bleu** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:12 am

Stockton really slowed down in his final years, so I'm gonna say yes.

SomeBunghole · Post #12 » by **SomeBunghole** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:20 am

Stockton's understanding of the game, and the ability to read it, was rivaled only by one Larry Bird. Plus, he was like a Swiss watch. I still wanna pull my hair out whenever I see Deron turn the ball over because of sloppy dribbling, fancy playground moves, or lack of awareness of where the defenders are around and especially behind him.

Don't get me wrong, I love Deron, but he's in his 3rd year. There are certain things that come with 15 years in the league.

carrottop12 · Post #13 » by **carrottop12** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:44 am

You can't replace the things Stock learned with so many years in the league, something Deron can't be blaimed for but you have to love what a savy veteran brings to the floor.

Other then that Deron's shooting is equal, his driving is better and his legs are obviously much younger which helps.

The Jazz are better right now having Deron on the floor then they would be with Stockton at that age, Stockt's defense had also fallen off quite a bit by that point.

Duiz · Post #14 » by **Duiz** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:57 am

I don't even know if I should response. I guess he was, but what is the point of the question. It is like asking, was Deron last year during january better than Chris, that considering that Paul was injured at the time.

I do think he is pretty good right now though compared to stockton on his third year. More important he is showing to have improved. I am fearful that the he might have reached a plateau on APG.

de2nd · Post #15 » by **de2nd** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:26 am

SomeBunghole wrote:Stockton's understanding of the game, and the ability to read it, was rivaled only by one Larry Bird. Plus, he was like a Swiss watch. I still wanna pull my hair out whenever I see Deron turn the ball over because of sloppy dribbling, fancy playground moves, or lack of awareness of where the defenders are around and especially behind him.

Don't get me wrong, I love Deron, but he's in his 3rd year. There are certain things that come with 15 years in the league.

Very nice first post.

Stocktons understanding of hte game and floor vision was amazing. Absolutely amazing. Right now with this team, Deron has more freedom to do things than Stockton ever had. Is that Sloan or is that Stockton? I dont know. Deron's defense can improve though and his passing ability has room for improvement. Don't get me wrong, they are great right now, but when comparing Deron's vision and passing and defensive skills to Stockton's, Stocktons are just un-rivaled.

The potential is there though. Stockton homers might not like to hear that, but if Deron keep up at his pace, stays with the Jazz, and even wins a ring, I think you'd have to put him ahead of Stockton. You just would. Now? No. Potentials there though.

ColdBlue · Post #16 » by **ColdBlue** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:42 am

It's a little too early for comparisons, but it's fun to do it anyway.

DW has a nice solid base of skills, and is improving every year. Offensively, he is a much more potent scorer than Stock ever was. They are equally good outside shooters, but DW has the edge in the paint. Stock definitely has the edge for court awareness and passing precision... but hey those things come with age.

DW has improved every season, and this season his game has evolved in regards to his ability to penetrate and making the right decision of passing or forcing a shot. He still has a way to go, but the improvement is there.

Stock is still the better floor general, but DW is no slouch.

If I had to choose DW now or Stock in 2003... I choose DW.

jazzrock · Post #17 » by **jazzrock** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:50 am

Wow! all you people voting D Will must be very very young or just plain lost your memory. Dont get me wrong. I love D Will. He is by far my favorite player on this current Jazz team. But you guys are trying to compare him to John Stockton. D Will isnt even the best PG in the game right now. John Stockton is the best PG to play the game ever!

I love D Will. I have his jersey and I drafted him with my second pick in every one of my fantasy leagues. But he is no John Stockton.

If for any reason he is not better than John at ANY age is simple, one word: Defense.

carrottop12 · Post #18 » by **carrottop12** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:01 am

jazzrock wrote:Wow! all you people voting D Will must be very very young or just plain lost your memory. Dont get me wrong. I love D Will. He is by far my favorite player on this current Jazz team. But you guys are trying to compare him to John Stockton. D Will isnt even the best PG in the game right now. John Stockton is the best PG to play the game ever!

I love D Will. I have his jersey and I drafted him with my second pick in every one of my fantasy leagues. But he is no John Stockton.

If for any reason he is not better than John at ANY age is simple, one word: Defense.

Stockton's defense in the final years of his career was anything but solid. He slowed down a lot and a lot of guards were penetrating against the Jazz with little resistence.

D-Will now is better then an aging Stockton.

Malone Strong · Post #19 » by **Malone Strong** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:06 am

If DWill wants to ever be seen as on Stockton's level, he must win an NBA championship. Because I guarantee you he will not break the assist or steals record, or play 18 seasons in Utah....

SomeBunghole · Post #20 » by **SomeBunghole** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:15 am

ColdBlue wrote: Stock definitely has the edge for court awareness and passing precision... but hey those things come with age.

Those things DO NOT come with age, else Marbury, Alston, or Telfair, wouldn't be sh*t PGs that they are. Those things are innate. You either "get" the way the game works, or you don't. And Stockton wasn't about insanely accurate passes in between players or in traffic. Stockton was about wearing you down by boiling the game down to the essentials(no, not money and b*tches.)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U_lE70C21ZA

Unfortunately, this youtube clip only shows a few of his 24 assists against the Lakers in, I think, the 1988 WCFs. The game is played on NBATV once in a blue moon, and it's unbelievable to see. Not one of those 24 passes is highlight reel material; they are simple to the point of shock. But that's what made John great. He'd have 24 assists against you, and you wouldn't even notice. You'd just wonder where those 50 points on the scoreboard came from.