Utah not a contender?

Duiz · Post #1 » by **Duiz** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:34 am

I know I know... Utah is terrible on the road, play down to their competition. You have a right to be concerned. We give them a pretty bad rep for being heck inconsistent, and they are at times. Its gotta piss someone off that the bottom 6 teams in the East are 6-6 vs the Jazz.

I was reading the daily dime, and as they were feasting CP3 for MVP talks... this came accross..

Best records in the conference against the rest of the West's top nine teams from best to worst.

1. New Orleans 16-10 (.615) :: Seeded 1st (SW Division Leaders)
2. Utah 14-9 (.609) :: 4th (NW Division Leaders)
3. Los Angeles Lakers 16-11 (.593) :: 3rd (Pacific Division Leaders)
4. Houston 13-13 (.500) :: 2nd
5. San Antonio 12-13 (.480) :: 5th
6. Dallas 11-13 (.458) :: 7th
7. Golden State 10-12 (.455) :: 8th
8. Denver 9-14 (.391) :: 9th
9. Phoenix 9-15 (.375) :: 6th

If you were wondering about Utah's record vs East's top 9... Utah is 12-3 (loss vs. Hawks, Nets, and at home to Boston with Kirilenko injured)

So? Combined records are 26-12 against the creme of the crop of the NBA. I am just saying, I have a point when I say, YES, UTAH JAZZ IS A CONTENDING TEAM.

Talk about media blackouts. Utah has to be the dark horse of the playoffs.

troy · Post #2 » by **troy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:10 am

Utah is not good enough defensively to win the title this year.

Post #3 » by **bleu** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:18 pm

troy wrote:Utah is not good enough defensively to win the title this year.

Who's side are you on. If you're a Nuggets fan than GTFO.

Personally, I think that Utah has a very very good shot at getting the title. This is an outstanding team, and I think that they're really going to come hard at the playoffs and show the league who's in charge.

El Turco · Post #4 » by **El Turco** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:46 pm

utah is certainly a contender but they wouldnt be my choice if i had a gun to my head due to lack of inside defensive presence.

Neon Black · Post #5 » by **Neon Black** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:24 pm

The Jazz are a contender because they CAN play defense and they CAN beat any team in the league, and they DO have the most loaded starting 5 and a great bench.

The problem is that despite having all of these assets and abilities, the Jazz are also chalf-full of apathy 30% of the time, and not every player shows up.

The main question is: are the playoffs going to be enough to light a fire underneath the Jazz?

carrottop12 · Post #6 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:32 pm

This might be the Jazz's best season to get to the finals. They are still being overlooked, and from what Deron and Boozer showed last night, these two guys can carry a team through the playoffs.

HammerDunk · Post #7 » by **HammerDunk** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:29 pm

I listen to 1320 a lot and every time they have some outside analyst on, they have said that the Jazz are one of 3 true contenders out of the West. It's Spurs, Lakers and Jazz almost every time. I really don't think anyone is underestimating the Jazz after last year, but the other teams just get more attention because of their divisions. The Jazz are in a weaker division and have had it pretty much locked up for months now. Their playoff drive isn't AS exciting as the other divisions in the West, so they get less attention there. But I really don't think anyone will underestimate them this time around.

That's one reason why I think we are better than last year. We have the same record, but this year everyone knew about us and we have still been able to win. Many of our losses were due to lack of focus against weak teams. We almost always get up for big games and make it tough on the other team. Brewer has improved a lot, Memo has developed some inside game, DWill knows what he can do in the playoffs and so does the rest of the team. And we don't have Fish around to charge charge charge. This years team is better suited for playoffs IMO.

HouseofBoozer · Post #8 » by **HouseofBoozer** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:27 pm

I'll tell you being able to beat a team on their home floor makes all the difference. We beat Houston last year because we proved in the regular season that beating them wasn't a problem after taking them down 3-1. It gave our guys something to focus on in game 7. We have never proven that we could beat SA or LA at their homes. If we could beat SAS this year 3-1 than I'd be confident that we could beat them in the playoffs. All the other playoff teams don't make me nervous because we continue to prove that we can beat them on their home floors and we are nearly impossible to beat here. Heres to hoping the Jazz can take the Spurs in the last two games we meet them in to end the season. If they did I would feel a lot more confident about this team. They have the overall talent as they are becoming more and more loaded at every position except maybe the 5. Fes is the wild card. If he can come in, play some good defense, and block some shots, the Jazz are going to be nearly impossible to beat. Here's to hoping we FINALLY get a title.

Post #9 » by **bleu** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:02 am

I like receiving a little bit of love from the media, but I also really like to be overlooked by the entire league. We have got to be one of the most overlooked team in the entire league, and I think that once again we're gonna surprise some people in the playoffs.

Duiz · Post #10 » by **Duiz** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:08 am

lol... Who is gonna win the west? Only Charles Barkley, the player that has the most uneven celebrity status to intelligence ratio is the only National media member that says that Utah will win the West.

troy · Post #11 » by **troy** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:11 pm

vainsake wrote:
Original post :"Utah is not good enough defensively to win the title this year."

Who's side are you on. If you're a Nuggets fan than GTFO.

Personally, I think that Utah has a very very good shot at getting the title. This is an outstanding team, and I think that they're really going to come hard at the playoffs and show the league who's in charge.

I'm just being realistic. If you think Utah has the team to win the title you're just blind.
Utah has no better chance than the Mavs and Suns teams of the past three-four years.
- Great/elite offensive team
- Average/bad defensive team
- Have proven to be elite teams ...during the regular season
- Has never done any better than WCF appearance (Phoenix) or one Final appearance (Dallas).

"Offense wins game... ", and Utah has a deadly offense. But we all know that the second part of this sentence is "... , defense wins championships" .

If you think that Utah has a defense good enough to stop the Spurs , Celtics or Lakers in the postseason you're going to be very disappointed.
Yes our WCF appearance last year was good , but we got DESTROYED by the Spurs because of our pathetic defense.
Even if this year the defense has slighty improved we just lost to the Wolves last saturday despite shooting 54% from the field with 31 assists and twenty freethrows , as far as i know a very good offensive performance. This is silly , we did a good game offensively but couldn't even stopped the lowly Wolves' offense.

Despite that you would think that we may win a series against the Spurs or even the Celtics because we got a bunch of great REGULAR SEASON games so far ?
Look at how many promising REGULAR SEASON games Phoenix and Dallas had over the years. Utah is no better than those teams , in the end our defense will kill us.

I would love for the Jazz to win the title this year. But it's not going to happen .
Still i'm pretty confident of this team's potential in the coming years. Especially if we find a defensive center in place of Okur (Fesenko ?)

carrottop12 · Post #12 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:21 pm

^^^

If Memo and AK play yesterday the Jazz win and these thoughts are not being posted.

It's a knee jerk reaction to yesterdays game.

I am not saying the Jazz are the favorites, but the Jazz match up well against every Western Conference teams, and it's obvious the Jazz play much better against those top teams then they do the bottom teams.

This team is immature, but it doesn't have a ton of holes.

The real Jazz will come out in the playoffs, what we saw yesterday wasn't the real Jazz.

troy · Post #13 » by **troy** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:56 pm

If Memo and AK play yesterday the Jazz win and these thoughts are not being posted.

batronuj , i posted my first prediction (the jazz can't win the title this year) two days ago. So my reaction is clearly not a knee jerk reaction.
From the beginning of the year i think that Utah doesn't have currently the team to go all the way. One reason : Okur and boozer inside won't cut it. 0.9 blocks per game combined. It is PATHETIC.
Do not think the Jazz can win 4 series playing with those kind of interior defender. The competition is way to tough , especially when we have to come out of the West (if it would have been the East maybe we would have had a chance to pull a miracle in the finals like Miami in 2006)

Batronuj i really think this "0.9 blocks per game" statistics is a "hole". I know the Jazzmen will step up their defensive game during the playoffs still it won't be enough. I think you forgot our pathetic defensive display in last year's WCF (at least on the road). It was a slaughter .
In 2 of our last 4 four losses we let the opponents scored 36pts in the 4th quarter ! 36 POINTS. In those two games the 4th quarter was our worst defensively. This is a real problem believe me.

Furthermore you say the Jazz match up well against every W. conference teams , i couldn't disagree more. Actually i could have said : Are you crazy ?!!
San Antonio would be a nightmare for us. The margin with which they beat us last year was huge. Three of the games were over at the half , i've never seen that in a conference finals before.
Even if we gained some ground on them last year , they are still a lot better than us !
And no we do not match up well at all against them , Deron will own bowen or Parker , but Duncan will kill us and more than anything Ginobili will do whatever he wants against us.

And then you have the Lakers. Obviously Kobe is unguardable by our team. Odom owns Kirilenko every time. Now adds Gasol to the mix , and maybe even Bynum. There is NO WAY we win a series against that team this year. Kobe AND Gasol will kill us . Los Angeles also have a VERY good bench so forget about that also.
We meet the Spurs or the Lakers and it's over for us. Sadly you can be sure we will meet one of these teams at some time in the playoffs.

I like our chance a lot against every other teams , we can beat New Orleans and Phoenix because i think with his physicality , Deron can dominate Paul and Nash over a series. But San Antonio and Los Angeles will mean "Game over" for us.

carrottop12 · Post #14 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:14 pm

I'm not saying the Jazz have an easy path to the finals.

But neither do the Spurs or the Lakers. If you are going to win a championship you have to beat good teams regardless of who you are.

I honestly believe come playoff time the Jazz won't lose any home games this year, and I like the Jazz's chances to win 1 of 4 on anyone else's home court.

troy · Post #15 » by **troy** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:35 pm

How much money would you bet on a jazz title then ?
4000$ ?
I know i woulnd't. Ask me again in two years. If by then a good defensive interior is in our starting lineup (and i think Okur would be the one who has lost his place) then i would bet definintely 4000$ at the beginning of the season (or playoffs) on a Jazz title.

This year , not even 100$.

carrottop12 · Post #16 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:43 pm

I wouldn't bet any money on any team to win it this year.

Look at the Spurs, you claim they are the dominant team this year. But look at their losses to the Hornets this year, 2 by 25 plus. What happens if they meet in the playoffs this year? But would you bet on the Hornets to win it this year?

Look at the Lakers. They have a great team on paper, but who knows what will happen with Gasol and Bynum when they come back.

If there is one thing the Jazz have it's experience and a great home court. Those are two very good strong points that very few others in the West have for sure coming into this post season.

troy · Post #17 » by **troy** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:53 pm

Personnally the Lakers and Spurs are the two teams that i would bet on.
They are the two teams that would be favorite in every of the series (if gasol is healthy) except the one in which they meet.

The Hornets won't beat one of these two teams. Same with Phoenix and Utah.

Do not look at a regular season game as an indication for the playoffs. Those Spurs'loss agaisnt the Hornets do not mean anything AT ALL.
Regular season is regular season , the playoffs are the playoffs.

utah has a great point and a strong home court , but they are very bad on the road , do not have homecourt advantage so far and play bad defense.
you do not find as many flaws with the lakers and Spurs.

Duiz · Post #18 » by **Duiz** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:05 pm

We have the ranked 1st offense, and the ranked 13th defense in the league.

The Jazz depend on Okur to have the high precision and high octanage offense. Stop being silly, the Jazz are contenders, and just like the Mavs and the Warriors affair, they have their issues.

Post #19 » by **JStockLivesOn** » Tue Apr 1, 2008 12:36 pm

There are five legitimate contenders in the West:

1. San Antonio
2. Los Angeles
3. Phoenix
4. Utah
5. New Orleans

Probably in that order, but Utah and Phoenix are interchangeable. The Spurs kick it up two notches every year in the playoffs, and I see no reason to believe they won't do the same this year. If LA has Gasol back and healthy, they'll be a legitimate force and I'll want nothing to do with them. Phoenix and New Orleans are very beatable, however. We'd be lucky to draw them, even though they're good teams who shouldn't be overlooked.

There's two things that are sort of untenable for me...
1) The Jazz responded to playoff pressure extremely well last year.
2) The Jazz have played on national television like pathetic, whimpering bitches this year.

Hopefully we see a return to number one, rather than a continuation of number two.