RealGM

Since last game there has been a lot of talk about refs and call and flopping and what the league should do about it. Most people are saying that it needs to be cleaned up. Am I the only one who thinks that it's just part of the game?

I have no problem with it whatsoever. Many people are talking about how it's lazy, or cheap, or not manly. I say it's SMART. It's a gamble, just like going for a steal, it may not work and you may get burned, but sometimes it's your best course of action. A basketball player, or any person for that fact, should use all of their abilities to accomplish their goals.

Being a man is not just about strength, speed, and intencity, it's also about intelligence. Whithout intelligence a man is just an ape. So let's stop trying to flex our testicles all the time and recognize that outwitting somebody is just as legitimate as overpowering somebody.

imo, if you want to outwit someone in basketball you should do it within the bounds of the game. You execute well and play smart. I don't see flopping as something that takes much skill, nor is it really part of the game. It's a cop out.

track86 wrote:Since last game there has been a lot of talk about refs and call and flopping and what the league should do about it. Most people are saying that it needs to be cleaned up. Am I the only one who thinks that it's just part of the game?

I have no problem with it whatsoever. Many people are talking about how it's lazy, or cheap, or not manly. I say it's SMART. It's a gamble, just like going for a steal, it may not work and you may get burned, but sometimes it's your best course of action. A basketball player, or any person for that fact, should use all of their abilities to accomplish their goals.

Being a man is not just about strength, speed, and intencity, it's also about intelligence. Whithout intelligence a man is just an ape. So let's stop trying to flex our testicles all the time and recognize that outwitting somebody is just as legitimate as overpowering somebody.

First of all in game one Battier did get burned BAD by flopping like a fish out of water, almost before Kirilenko even got there. AK looked at him and then went in for an easy shot. Other than that I don't agree with flopping, however in this case it seemed like being a little overdramatic for AK was the only way those stupid refs were going to call anything.

And that wonderful 2nd bolded quote, do you...? Never mind, I don't wanna go there.

In the NHL, if you "dive" in order to draw a penalty, you can get a penalty for misconduct. The call is of course at the referee's discretion, and its subjectivity means it doesn't happen that often, but it does help. Persistent "divers" are fined and their names are actually circulated around the league.

I think if players risked getting T'ed up for flopping, the game would be better off for it.

As long as there is a corresponding penalty for those who initiate contact offensively. Ball fake, get a guy in the air & then jump in to him (& similar contact from the offensive side of the ball). How would you penalize that guy? That's the equivalent of flopping, IMO.

But more so, can't we get them to crack down on travelling & carrying first? Wouldn't that be a lot easier to police?

loserX wrote:In the NHL, if you "dive" in order to draw a penalty, you can get a penalty for misconduct. The call is of course at the referee's discretion, and its subjectivity means it doesn't happen that often, but it does help. Persistent "divers" are fined and their names are actually circulated around the league.

I think if players risked getting T'ed up for flopping, the game would be better off for it.

That's what happens in soccer too. Although flopping is much more common in soccer than in basketball, when you get caught doing it, you are penalized. If that happened in the NBA, people would probably think a lot more before doing it, since you have 3 referees with their eyes on you.

I could only see game 2 today and although AK did exaggerate, that was one of the most blatant fouls in the history of Western civilization. Scola had his arm clearly extended and was pushing AK away from T-mac. When AK tried to get away from Scola's arm, Scola clearly pushed him out of bounds. That fact that AK had to put his arms up and look at the referee that was standing right in front of him for him to call a foul is actually ridiculous. The referee should be fined for taking so long to make a call that obvious.

SkyHook wrote:As long as there is a corresponding penalty for those who initiate contact offensively. Ball fake, get a guy in the air & then jump in to him (& similar contact from the offensive side of the ball). How would you penalize that guy? That's the equivalent of flopping, IMO.

Agreed. Pretty easy to penalize: that should be an offensive foul, just like charging.

SkyHook wrote:But more so, can't we get them to crack down on travelling & carrying first? Wouldn't that be a lot easier to police?

That would be nice. However, it's mostly superstars that I see getting away with carrying, and mostly role players that I see flopping (there are exceptions to both, of course). And we all know just how intent the NBA is on curtailing the offensive freedom of its superstars.

loserX wrote:I think if players risked getting T'ed up for flopping, the game would be better off for it.

They do, I have seen one guy, I don't remember in which game this season getting a Technical for flopping.

It happens almost in every physical contact sport. Soccer is the king of it, Hockey is another good one, and on the NBA with such closeup views is where it is the most noticeable.

I wish my Utah team would know how to flop, since Fisher left, we have seen some sparks of the old flopping.

The flop is just part of the game, just like bad officiating. There is little you can do about it so get over it.

The NBA has much bigger problems to deal with, guaranteed contracts for one.

I don't think using flaws in the officiating is a desirable strategy from a fans perspective. Some players flop instinctively though, like a flinch. It's the refs job to just call the game as is.

They (nba) should come up with a rule, whoever does the worst flopping act, the other team gets an instant techincal free throw. Like an example, I don't understand how an 260 lb center can flop over when a 180 lb point guard barely bumps into him. It's quite pitiful to watch when it actually happens. >.> But it is part of basketball, especially when the playoffs comes around. And that's when the great flopping act starts.

IMO, there's a pretty substantial difference between selling a call like AK did and flopping like Battier, Doc Rivers, Divac and their ilk where they feel the slightest contact and fly backwards like they've just been punched in the nuts by Mike Tyson. It's one thing to take a charge and fall backwards, it's another thing entirely to try and create a foul call where no foul exists.

I hate players that do it, but I'm not sure the NBA can or should police it. Refs should be instructed not to reward it though.

As long as this doesn't become FIFA, flopping is fine. The reason I see it this way is because some flops are necessary to get the refs attention. I think we should leave it up to the refs to decide whether a flop was caused by contact or not. It's hilarious when a player flops without even being touched and should be penalized, but when a player is smart enough to use it after the contact has been made, it should be OK. The player also runs the risk of not getting the call and leaving an easy open shot as was mentioned before.

In my opinion, giving a penalty, like suspension, after the player flops without any contact, would reduce the amount of those. Exaggerating the fouls is understandable, but creating foul calls on non-foul plays is the disturbing part. Anyway, giving suspension would makes flopping acts similar to the technical fouls. And, it would definitely help teach the right way to the floppers.

I don't think that flopping is right, but it's part of the game and it's not gonna stop. They're never gonna put down a rule against it and players aren't gonna magically stop because it's wrong. End of story.

Seralin wrote:In my opinion, giving a penalty, like suspension, after the player flops without any contact, would reduce the amount of those... giving suspension would makes flopping acts similar to the technical fouls. And, it would definitely help teach the right way to the floppers.

If a retroactive suspension strategy based on video evidence were to be implemented as you suggest, the NBA could rightfully claim to be global pioneers. Not even FIFA has pursued this particular course, despite it being mooted for seemingly eons by people interested in the purity of football and its participants worldwide.

When I watched the last World Cup, I thought it was such a joke how much those guys were flopping. That's one reason why I can't understand why people love it so much. I mean, come on, some guy acts like he was just knifed when the ball gets taken away, but is up literally seconds after playing like nothing ever happened. And it happens ALL the time.

The NBA definitely has floppers, but it hasn't gotten that bad yet.