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I used to be a huge Okur detractor. After last year's playoffs i just couldn't stand his softness , inconsistent offense , bad defense and horrible +/- statistics over the past three years.
All year long i was certain that the Jazz had no chance with such a player next to (already bad defender) Boozer.

After those playoffs though , i gotta change my mind , the stats are not up to date yet , but according to 82games.com , Okur has the best ON/OFF court statistics of the team in this postseason. +14.8 !!
His offense has definitely improved from last year's playoffs , but more importantly i think he did a very decent job defensively.
This is especially interesting because Okur is playing out of position.

We all knew that Okur wasn't a real center and his natural position is power forward. From time to time somebody reminds us of this when we tend to forget. Actually i think it's the biggest problem for the Jazz right now.
We DO NOT have a real center at the moment.

Okur :
- Doesn't protect the basket. He is not a shot blocker , never draws any charge but more than anything he just doesn't have the mindset. You can see he is not a typical center because he just isn't used to protect the paint. To be the last defender of the team. He defends like a PF at the center position.
Furthermore he is really soft. And at the 5 position he is often overpowered by his opponent .
- Offensively he has no back to the basket game and more importantly he is a HORRIBLE finisher inside . He converts only 49.1% of his baskets inside according to 82games. The only big men that are worse are : Tyrus Thomas , Johan Petro and Ben Wallace ! For instance he is behind Adonal Foyle !!
Okur is much more at ease on the perimeter or taking the midrange shot. Once again that's not a center , that's a power forward.


For those reasons i didn't like Okur at all. But i'm starting to understand that if he were used as a PF (like in the 05/06 season) he would actually be a very good asset.
Body wise , he may have an advantage at this position unlike at center. At 6'11 he would be taller and bigger than most PFs. He wouldn't be very quick , but let's not forget that Boozer is not much quicker than him defensively. Fact is it would be way harder for a PF to shoot over Okur than over Boozer. Odom got a lot of easy baskets by shooting over Boozer , i do not think he would have been able to do that with Okur.


In the end i think that Utah needs to trade Boozer or Okur for a real center.
Boozer/Center : We would have a better offensive team
Okur/Center : We would have a better defensive team

WHAT A REAL CENTER COULD DO FOR US

1/ First of all if we had somebody to clog the paint it would do wonders for our defense. Having an intidimator under the basket would force the opponent's perimeter players to think twice before driving to the basket. The defense of Kirilenko , Brewer and Deron would be boosted.
Our bigs doesn't defend the basket . It's not a question of ability but more a question of mindset. Okur is not used to playing center. He defends like a PF. Having a true center defending the basket at all times would be terrific.

2/ If we keep Okur i think it would be very hard to score over a tall interior duo . That's almost two seven footers inside and you just have to look at the Spurs to know that even if the players are slow , the size can be determinant. Maybe Okur can't cover guys like Odom on the perimeter , but he would just have to dare him to shoot. Clog the paint and make them beat you from the perimeter , that's good defense (and that's how Boozer was stopped).

3/ Offensively having a true inside threat would also help our game a lot. Okur is not an inside player. Boozer is taking more and more jumpshots (53% of his baskets were inside last year , 46% this year...)
They are not that complementary anymore. how many times have we seen one of those two launch a jumpshot with nobody inside to get the offensive rebound ?
With a real center , the offensive team would have to guard the paint at all times and to box out for the offensive rebound.
Okur obviously would be very complementary with such a player , but so will Boozer.If you can't double him inside he would be able to score much more easily (just ask Amare with Shaquille O'neal).
In the end a winning team has to have a good inside/outside game. Lately Boozer is spending more and more times out of the paint , so we need to get a guy that actually stays under the basket to put pressure on the opponent's defense.



A fews days ago i thought that a guy like Okafor would be enough to take us to the championship. He is a good defender and a good shotblocker.
Unfortunately he is yet another power forward.
What we need is a true center , somebody that will defend the basket defensively , clog the plaint and somebody that will stay in the paint offensively not attempt jumpshots.
Boozer or Okur at the 4 position : Utah can win with either one of them , but they need to use a true center next to them.

What kind of center may be avalaible ?
- Chris Kaman of course
- Andrew Bogut
- Brendan Haywood

This are really the only three centers i would like Utah to go with , especially the first two.

He's a free agent this year also and the Jazz could give him a decent chunk of change with the MLE. He's so much better then Collins it's unbelievable and he's a great shot blocker.

I don't really see Diop as a starting caliber center , mainly because he is close to useless offensively.
Even defensively i'm not a huge fan. He is listed as a 7 footer but strangely i do not think he takes a lot of space under the basket.

Diop would be an improvement for out team but i don't see him as a viable solution because he is not good enough offensively to be used for starter minutes.

I'd rather see the Jazz go for a big trade : Kaman or Bogut.

I don't think there's any chance the Jazz can get Bogut. He's arguably the best player on the Bucks and still improving, he actually wants to play in Milwaukee, and he's the only inside defender the Bucks have. Yi and Villanueva are a pair of marshmallows, and Gadzuric is a 15 mpg role player at best.
The Bucks cannot afford to lose Bogut without getting a solid starting C in return, and the Jazz don't have one of those to offer.

Troy I hate to disagree with you but with all do respect we need an athletic shot blocking big man not another slow white guy. I just would rather sign a player like Diop who can be had for the MLE then to break up part of the core and trade for a player like Kaman or Bogut. Remember guys this is still a young team that is still inexperienced they will only get better with more experience playing together give them time and add the pieces to make a championship run.

I don't think we need a guy who can play starter minutes. Just rotation minutes, especially in the playoffs.

Diop is tempting, but all we have to offer is part of the MLE, and I suspect there are an awful lot of teams willing to do that.

I don't see any of the guys you listed being available except at prices that would tear our team apart. Why on earth would the Clips trade Kaman now? And the Bucks and Wiz need Bogut and Haywood more than we do.

I know I've beaten this horse to death, but a trade for Jeff Foster would be enough for me. He, Okur, Booz and Millsap make a fine 4-man power rotation, and we don't have to adjust our schemes or style. Maybe Etan Thomas if he's healthy...we could get him for about nothing. Maybe even Kurt Thomas in FA.

I'm hoping Fez can step in and be a productive rotation guy.

I don't think we need a guy who can play starter minutes. Just rotation minutes, especially in the playoffs.

The problem i have with this theory , it's that at the end of games , starters are on the floor.
At the end of close games , Okur and Boozer will have to handle our interior defense not the "rotation player".
We saw this year and last year that defense is terrible when those two are together on the floor.
They're in their prime right now , i don't see why they would suddenly become good defenders.

A quick fix like Diop or Foster is not enough. We need a guy that can play real minutes and more importantly that can close games for us. Foster and Diop are not good enough offensively IMO to warrant starting (and finishing) minutes.

You seem to think that this core has the potential to win a title and that's where i disagree with you. As good as Deron become , this team will always be limited by their bad interior defense. Okur and Boozer can't even get a block per game combined, they never draw charges. They are just bad defensive players and that will never change.
Most of all , they are both Power forwards. Okur is not a center.


The question is now "can the Jazz get Kaman or Bogut ?" Like you said Milwaukee and LAC have no reason to trade those kind of players.
ON the other hand , Utah has A LOT to trade. If a team has a lot of assets to make a big move it's the Jazz :
Kirilenko
Okur or Boozer
Ronnie Brewer
CJ Miles
Morris Almond
Kyle Korver
The Knicks pick

Utah has a lot to offer, and i'm sure the Clippers would be interested in a Okur + Brewer + pick trade.

I think we trade Boozer, not Okur.

Signing Diop may not be "the answer" but would add alot of depth. What he could be is a replacement for Collins, who we could then release. He's much more athletic and a good shot blocker. He would take a load off Millsaps back, having to compensate for Boozer and Okur's pathetic defense.

On top of all of that, he's a realistic acqusition. I mean I would give up Boozer, Kirilenko, Almond, a draft pick and my spleen for Dwight Howard, but that's not going to happen!

jazzfan1971 wrote:I think we trade Boozer, not Okur.

It depends on what's available in return, but I agree. I like the thought of moving Okur back to PF and getting someone else to play both ends in the paint.

It depends on what's available in return, but I agree. I like the thought of moving Okur back to PF and getting someone else to play both ends in the paint.

I'd also prefer that the jazz move boozer rather than Okur problem is i can't see why the Clipps or Bucks would like to get a guy like Boozer , especially the Clippers who already have Brand.
That's why trading Okur has more chances of happening.

Anyway i know that a Kaman or Bogut chance is not going to happen especially when you know the jazz history regarding trades.
But sometimes you need this kind of dreams :p
I think the more realistic scenario was pointed out by jazzfan1971 : we need to hope that Fesenko improves this summer and can make an impact next year.

I just think that if the jazz wants to win the title , they will have to get another starting center (and have Boozer or Okur playing PF). Can Fesenko be that starting center ? It's really a long shot , that's why i'd like the jazz to go for Kaman or Bogut because Boozer and Okur's trade value are fairly high. It's the right time.

can we somehow get elton brand? maybe boozer+protected NY pick?


his injury problems concern me but if he pans out he can play both C and PF positions which would give us flexibility to use Okur.

troy wrote:The problem i have with this theory , it's that at the end of games , starters are on the floor.
At the end of close games , Okur and Boozer will have to handle our interior defense not the "rotation player".

See, I disagree. There were a lot of games this year when Korver (who is not a starter) was on the floor in the final minutes so that we could take advantage of his free-throw shooting, the lack of which is what killed us so many times in December. Skillset sometimes matters more than talent...Kyle doesn't defend well enough to be a starter, but he still gets to finish games because we need what he provides.

The reason Boozer and Okur are on the floor at the end of games is because Holy Hannah, does Jarron Collins suck. We don't HAVE an alternative inside the way we do with Korver on the wing. I think if we actually had a Foster/Thomas type guy, we might see him at the end of close games if we needed him.

troy wrote:You seem to think that this core has the potential to win a title and that's where i disagree with you.

That's fair enough. I'd prefer to at least try patching the leak before buying a whole new boat, but I certainly understand if not everyone agrees with me.

See, I disagree. There were a lot of games this year when Korver (who is not a starter) was on the floor in the final minutes so that we could take advantage of his free-throw shooting, the lack of which is what killed us so many times in December. Skillset sometimes matters more than talent...Kyle doesn't defend well enough to be a starter, but he still gets to finish games because we need what he provides.

First of all i do not think Korver's defense is that big of an issue. Actually i think he's been a better defender than Brewer. In the playoffs Brewer's opponents scored 31.1pts per 48min. Korver's scored "only" 26pts per 48 min.

And Korver is much more than a mere free throw shooter. He spaces up the floor. Brewer is not even guarded most of the time that's why he doesn't play in the 4th. That's the real reason imo. Free throw shooting is not as important . Anyway , Korver is the real starter in my opinion. Just like Vujacic is more of a starter than Radmanovic in LA because he finishes all the games.

The reason Boozer and Okur are on the floor at the end of games is because Holy Hannah, does Jarron Collins suck. We don't HAVE an alternative inside the way we do with Korver on the wing. I think if we actually had a Foster/Thomas type guy, we might see him at the end of close games if we needed him.

I'd like to agree with you here , but i don't think this is the way Sloan operates. Even on Boozer's worst nights he didn't bench him for Millsap who is arguably one of the best backup PF in the league.
Sloan is really loyal to his players and he doesn't make a lot of changes to his rotation. I really don't see him benching Okur or Boozer in late game situations , because he has never done it even with Millsap.


That's the reason why Utah has to trade one of its two bigs as far as i'm concerned.

milicic?

collins,almond/miles,08 1st for darko

Chris Mihm for Jason Hart

Two final year players (if they both opt in) making similar $. Lakers have four players who can play C already and Price is the clear backup pg now for the Jazz.

Both teams get backups at positions of need.

A couple of the mocks out there have us taking Roy Hibberd from Georgetown.
7'2" 278 lbs

His Bio........
Strengths: Center with great size and strength ... Has soft hands, excellent touch on his shot ... Strong rebounder ... Very good free throw shooter, (around 80%) which is especially important for a center ... Post moves are developing well ... Smart player, has a good understanding of his role and what to do on the court ... Strong character guy ... Hard worker, has shown great improvement in his skill level, body and conditioning in his time at Georgetown ... Has transformed himself into a legitimate prospect ... More athletic than he appears ... His quickness in decision making has improved ... Body strength and agility seems to still be developing, his upside is very intriguing considering how much he improved in the past year ... Good vision and passing ability ... Calm demeanor, never gets out of control or loses his cool ... Has the size to block shots inside without jumping ...

Weaknesses: Limited athletically: Lacks quickness, speed in the open floor, and explosiveness ... Has trouble against big and athletic centers, must work on ball fakes and becoming less predictable offensively ... Runs very stiff, slow transitioning from half to full court ... Has decent shot blocking skills due to his size, but lacks great quickness and reflexes vertically ...


That might just be what we need.

alot of people seem to be down on hibbert, but honestly who else do we draf? another shooting guard? unless we trade the pick i'm thinking Roy is our best option.

Keep in mind though that sloan won't have him really contributing for one to three years. We need help now...

The problem with Okur playing the 4 is the same problem with Kirilenko playing the 4, neither are prototypical Sloan power forwards. We've always had guys like Malone and Carr down low that you know can post people up. That definitely isn't the strength of either Okur or AK. They're going to keep Boozer, but I would love to have Diop as a rotation guy and let Collins walk next year, or trade him.