Diop..a veteran or rookie PG? Don't break up core!

[Da110n0rcutt]

DaSagana Diop would be a perfect fit to what we are looking for, cause every big man (meaning 6'11" or taller) that we pick up in the draft is always a project, and we are afraid to use them. Diop has been to the finals before, so he has the post season experience, and also he is still young and promising who would provide great energy minutes behind Okur alongside Millsap. Adding Diop means we would need to release Jarron "the tree" Collins.


The other debate is...I know how alot of us love Ronnie Price, but he reminds me alot of Dee Brown. If Brown didn't pan out here then do we just hang on to Price knowing he can at least spare us a few minutes...if what we do this offseason doesn't work, and release Hart. So then one of my ideas is we get a good veteran back up point guard like a Anthony Johnson who played for the Hawks and Kings last season and did farely well and got the Hawks to where they were at before the Bibby trade which was a .500 ball club, or if we don't like that idea then go after a decent PG in the draft. Really...I think that would be a the best idea to go after a PG in the draft because then Deron can mentor him.

[Reckless]

I agree that trying to sign Diop should be at the top of our priorities
Like you said he is a great fit

As far the PG position is concerned I think we should draft a PG(if and only if all the quality centers are taken ). Price was just given the backup position by default because Hart sucked so bad. Hart was our veteran hope, I don't wanna sign another veteran and have him perform like Hart did.

I like Mario Chalmers game. I can imagine him as a jazz backup coming in to hit the 3 at the end of quarters. Price hasn't been as successful with shooting 3's as I'd hope. Chalmers is a 3 point specialist.

[seejaydeja]

I think inexperienced youth is the last thing this team needs. IMO, our lack of experience and inability to come through in dire situations is the reason we're still not playing right now.

[carrottop12]

Exactly, if the Jazz draft anyone it needs to be a college veteran like Hibbert who has played in big games and won't need a lot of transition time.

I would love to see the Jazz sign a legit back up PG, I love the energy Ronnie brings, but some games he is a non factor when we need him.

[seejaydeja]

Locke described price best when he said that he's the kinda player that, every once in a while does something so amazing that he makes you forget the last 5 terrible possessions he had.

[carrottop12]

Locke described price best when he said that he's the kinda player that, every once in a while does something so amazing that he makes you forget the last 5 terrible possessions he had.

Exactly, if you remember the game in Utah against the Bulls this season, Price had been playing pretty poorly the past few games, then had a really good 5 minutes and it locked up the back up PG spot for him for the rest of the season.

I don't want to have to have those amazing 5 minute spurts just to secure a back up PG spot, I want solid play all the time.

[BG3eb]

Not sure if Diop is going to be interested in Utah. He has said he really would like to go back to Dallas. He has a home back in the area.

[troy]

Locke described price best when he said that he's the kinda player that, every once in a while does something so amazing that he makes you forget the last 5 terrible possessions he had.

I disagree with that statement. I definitely think that we have a great back up prospect with Ronnie Price.
Back up PG is clearly not an issue.

In the regular season , Price had an outstanding +/- of +7.3 . Easily the number 1 of the team.
It's amazing because it's extremely rare that the backup of the franchise player has a positive +/-. Not only he had a positive +/- but he actually had the best of the team !!
In the playoffs he was dead last on the team but i really don't think it is significiant because Price only played 68 minutes in those playoffs and the whole bench was off (Korver - 41.1% , Harpring - 39.7% , etc...)
He is a great defender , and his offense should get better with time. He is not a great passer but he can be an interesting spark when it comes to scoring.

Price is not perfect but the glass is definitely not greener elsewhere.
On those playoffs would you rather have Jordan Farmar (lakers' backup) jacques vaughn (spurs backup) for instance ?
Price is young , but he is already playing well. Howard Esley was known as one of the best pg's backup when he played behind Stockton , IMO Price has WAY MORE potential than Esley.


Regarding the center position , Diop is interesting as a somewhat experienced center. But i don't think it's a realistic idea , first of all he will probably get more than the MLE this summer , and second of all i'm not sure playing behind Okur would be one of his first choice. He was way more chance to come back to Dallas for instance.

In the end i agree completely with you seejaydeja when you say that what we lack is experience.
At the beginning of this season i said that Utah should do everything to get a guy like Brown (free agent). He was just what the team needed. An experienced big that plays defense and with some leadership. What we lost in leadership with the loss of Fisher we could have get it back with Brown.
Brown will be available again this summer. Kurt Thomas too. But i don't think those two guys will leave their respective teams.
Another guy that have significant experience is Francisco Elson of the Spurs. He played on a championship team and is an above average defender. I think he would be a positive addition .

[loserX]

Diop would be a great fit, but there are a lot of other teams who will be happy to throw their MLE at him too. We're just one of the pack, especially if we're also going to look at a PG, thus dividing the money we have to offer.

I do like the Anthony Johnson idea, and have stumped for it myself. I think Price is a 3rd PG.

[troy]

I think you underrate Ronnie Price.
He is only 24 years old and this year is the first year he's had some decent playing time , regarding the way he played this year how can limit his potential has a useless player (3rd PG).

Price stats per 36 minutes :
14pts , 4.8ast , 1.8to , 2stl , 1.6 threes , 43.1%

Johnson stats per 36 minutes :
9.1pts , 6.2 ast , 1.2stl , 2to , 1 threes , 43.7%

Statistically speaking the players are very close at worst. I don't deny Johnson's ability , but no way he is far better than Price.
And i'm not even talking about his level as a 24 years old where he was even worse.

Price is young and he is already playing quite well , he will only get better. He has truly a great attitude. I really don't think the back up PG is an issue. How many times has Deron praised Price's play this season ? That says it all IMO.

[HouseofBoozer]

Price definitely got better as the season went on with him as the backup. I stopped getting so nervous when they pulled Deron out. Remember management thought Hart would be a solid veteran and he sucked. He's a backup, were not necessarily going to have a solid player backing up always, but I do think Price is improving. As for Diop, we could really use him, but I don't think he's really interested in signing with the Jazz.

[loserX]

I think you underrate Ronnie Price.

That may be. I like him, but I still think he's a change-of-pace sparkplug type who isn't ready to run this team.

Price stats per 36 minutes :
14pts , 4.8ast , 1.8to , 2stl , 1.6 threes , 43.1%

Johnson stats per 36 minutes :
9.1pts , 6.2 ast , 1.2stl , 2to , 1 threes , 43.7%

Statistically speaking the players are very close at worst.

Man, do I hate per-36s and per-48s. They really have almost no application to guys who only play ~9mpg because they assume that production is linear, which it isn't. By that measure, Price would also have 5.25 fouls per game, which means he'd be getting yanked long before putting up those numbers.

There may be plenty of good arguments in favour of Price, but per-36s and per-48s are not among them.

[The Sheik]

No offense Troy but +/- and per stats are complete garbage. Any fan that watches the game knows the Price was just as inconsistent as Hart. The only difference was he could hit shots and from time to time blew you away for 3-4 mins. Deron needs a legit 8-12 min backup, nobody on our current roster is that. Price is near awful running the offense, the times he is successful usually involve him scoring.

I love his hustle and grit, but the Jazz need a real back up PG.

[troy]

I know that statistics can't tell the whole truth , in my previous post i wanted to say :
I don't deny Johnson's ability - he has more impact than his stat suggests because he has some true point guards skills (tempo control etc...)

Still the stats shows that Price is no slouch . Especially when you look at the +/- stats (number one of the team even though he never plays with our franchise player !!!) . YOu can say that 36 minutes are garbage , but the +/- stat is not garbage The Sheik , especially for the backup of the franchise player.

I agree with you all about Price's skills when it comes to setting an offense. He is not a great passer . Now The Sheik you're harsh when you say that he is as inconstistent as Hart.
First of all Hart was VERY consistent. Consistently awful , missing the end of quarters shot EVERY TIME. Actually missing all his shots every time.

Anyway back to Price . Maybe he is not always there on offense , but defensively he is ALWAYS very good. Offense is probably more important for a point guard , still it's important.
Harpring is praised for his toughness and hustle plays but Price is probably more a hustler than him now. He is a crowd favorite and can change the momentum of a game when he comes on the floor.
Maybe he is not a great passer , but a backup that can affect the momentum of a game every 5 or 6 games is still better in my eyes than Jacques Vaughn for instance.

A lot of players lacks intensity on this team. Price is a terrific competitor. I personally think that competitors , "warriors" , are important to win titles.
I'm sure when he gets a little bit more experience , Price will be very good in important games. You can just see he's here to make his team win. There is never enough players like that.

[DelaneyRudd]

-= original quote snipped =-



Man, do I hate per-36s and per-48s. They really have almost no application to guys who only play ~9mpg because they assume that production is linear, which it isn't. By that measure, Price would also have 5.25 fouls per game, which means he'd be getting yanked long before putting up those numbers.

There may be plenty of good arguments in favour of Price, but per-36s and per-48s are not among them.

Not to mention that he is more likely to be defended by a scrub.

[edfmx86]

I bet Jason hart is the veteran point guard we are looking for.

[Da110n0rcutt]

I love alot of your points...and agree with alot of them...and want to add to some of them. Price is good don't get me wrong so we keep him as a safety net if a rookie PG doesn't work, and Mario Chalmers is the dream back up point if we could land him and have Deron mentor him because he is from a championship team in Kansas where he has been on the biggest stage in college basketball almost every year, plus his defense (averaged 2.5 steals per game) is tremendous...along with his 3 point shooting (averaged 47% 3P%).

Another point I would like to make is about Diop, does he want to go somewhere, where he would be an intricle part of the team if he just did what he did in Dallas and be contending each year or go to a Dallas team where is clearly going to be rebuilding here soon, and has question on whether they will make it out of the first round of the playoffs, but with the Jazz we have a real legitimate chance of winning a championship if we get the right pieces without blowing up our whole roster, and whos to say that he might be that piece we need. So my question is why wouldn't he want to come to Utah if he is a true competitor and wants to give his best chance to win a championship? Because Dallas really has alot more problems then we do imho.

[carrottop12]

You have to realize if it's a matter of money Dallas is going to win out, and even if the Jazz offer the same amount as Dallas, it will be a lot easier for him to go back to Dallas, he knows all the players, he knows the system, and he knows the area.

The Jazz would have to outbid Dallas by a lot to get him I think, that is if Dallas is going for him.

But I agree, I like Price, but he is a far better 3rd string PG who plays 5-10 minutes a game every once in a while vs. a guy who gets 15 every night for 82 games. I love him to get the Jazz out and running when they are in a funk, but he's not good enough to have if Deron gets into foul trouble in the playoffs.

Hart should go overseas and be a star, or get comfortable with being a 3rd stringer who won't get any burn.

[CAE15]

I thought hart only signed a 1 year deal? or does he a have a player option? and if he does wont he opt out to actually get to playing? he wasnt so bad with the bobcats.

[gonzo]

what are your thoughts on anthony carter as a veteran pg back-up?
he did alright filling in for atkins in denver last year and is a free agent.