Olympic Ball - AK vs Scola

[bsutefan]

Andrei Kirilenko vs Luis Scola
Russia and Argentina met in each team's final game of pool play. Here's how the two faired against each other after being matched up most of the night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/ ... gameId=789

AK:
37 mins
23 points
9 rebs
1 block
2 steals
3 assists
33.3% from 3pt
42% from field

Luis Scola:
40 mins
37 points
8 rebs
2 blocks
1 steal
3 assists
75% from field

Does this shed any light on AK playing in the post in the NBA? Euro ball is supposed to be perimeter oriented and built for AK. Scola didn't take a single 3 pointer, and dominated around the basket.

[Duiz]

lol... It doesn't matter who it was... Russia had a terrible olympics... from JR Holden, to Viktor, to AK... I am amazed he even got to 18 points.

[carrottop12]

Wow, huge game by Scola.

And no, it doesn't change my opinion about AK playing PF, especially if you look at who the Russians had on their team, which is exactly nobody.

I'd still rather keep Boozer though.

[The Sheik]

Being as he had a small amount of Rebounds(meaning he didnt have a lot of put backs) he must of earned all of those the hard way.

Im honestly so fed up with AK that I would trade him straight up for Wally worlds expiring contract.

[carrottop12]

Being as he had a small amount of Rebounds(meaning he didnt have a lot of put backs) he must of earned all of those the hard way.

Im honestly so fed up with AK that I would trade him straight up for Wally worlds expiring contract.

If there is one thing I hate about the Jazz brass it's that they refuse to admit their mistakes, cut their losses and move on. Sometimes the cards just don't fall right, so you have to fold your hand and hope the next deal you get something better.

You can't make a 4/7 off suit into a straight flush no matter how hard you try. Sometimes you have to swallow it, and move on.

The Jazz need to rid themselves of AK's contract and move on otherwise they are just throwing their chips into an unwinnable hand.

They've got an ace in Deron, a King in Boozer, and a Queen in Memo, they need to toss out AK cause he ain't worth Jack and hope something better comes along.

And that's enough with the Poker lingo for tonight.

But seriously, ditch AK before it bites you in the ass.

[erudite23]

Don't admit their mistakes and cut their losses?

Um, we traded Kirk Snyder after his first season as a Jazz man. Humps after his second, exposed Sasha to the expansion draft, traded away Arroyo while he still had some value (got a 1st in return, a massive coupe in retrospect)....need I go on?

The Jazz have always been ready to move on from a mistake. I just don't think its as easy as you make it out to be in this case. No one is out looking to take on AKs massive contract, least of all by giving us something great in return. I think the Jazz have done well in handling it, rather than doing a Toronto or Philly and giving him away for 15 cents on the dollar.

[ColdBlue]

They've got an ace in Deron, a King in Boozer, and a Queen in Memo, they need to toss out AK cause he ain't worth Jack and hope something better comes along.

[d-will8]

Don't admit their mistakes and cut their losses?

Um, we traded Kirk Snyder after his first season as a Jazz man. Humps after his second, exposed Sasha to the expansion draft, traded away Arroyo while he still had some value (got a 1st in return, a massive coupe in retrospect)....need I go on?

The Jazz have always been ready to move on from a mistake. I just don't think its as easy as you make it out to be in this case. No one is out looking to take on AKs massive contract, least of all by giving us something great in return. I think the Jazz have done well in handling it, rather than doing a Toronto or Philly and giving him away for 15 cents on the dollar.

Obviously, teams have good reason to be reluctant about trading for AK's contract. However, according to the rumor mill, we could have gotten either Vince Carter or Shawn Marion for him. Of course, rumors have to be taken with a grain of salt, but, while trading AK won't be the easiest thing in the world, there are probably some solid possibilities out there.
If we actually could have gotten Marion for him, in retrospect, I think we should have done it, unless it would have required giving up Brewer, as some rumors suggested that it would have. Best case scenario, he could have given us the same production he gave Phoenix (which would be more than AK's given us the last two years) and a shorter contract than AK's. Worst case scenario, he'd be unhappy (like AK), he'd underproduce (like AK), but we'd only have to deal with his contract until the end of this year. Or, if he was really unhappy, he could have chosen not to exercise his option and we'd already be rid of him and we wouldn't have to worry about the luxury tax. Of course, the Suns probably were asking for Brewer.

[bsutefan]

4 years left on Carter at nearly $15M per season, thats too much
Marion is going to pull a hissy-fit until he gets similar money. I honestly believe he will make himself as difficult to work with as possible until he either gets paid or goes elsewhere (see ManRam).

The question I have is simple:
Will the Jazz be willing to take a contract that expires NEXT year instead of this year?
If LHM would be willing to pay the tax for 1 season, then we may be able to keep Boozer, Memo, Millsap, and Korver...which I see as a long-term plus. Once the contract expires, we're back under the tax threshold. (An example would be Ben Wallace, who has the same contract, but expires next season).

[cjs55]

The big problem about just dumping AK is that Boozer and Memo make absolutely no sense whatsoever in the front court. AK is the only glue that holds that defensive mess together in the starting line up. Unless you can get Josh Smith or another shotblocking SF somehow, I don't see how you can dump AK and just expect to keep winning at the same rate. I would expect a 5-7 decrease in wins over the season and less success in the playoffs if we were to just dump AK.

That box score is pretty gross though.

[The Sheik]

"AK is the only glue that holds that defensive mess together "

Have you watched any Jazz games? What exactly does AK do to hold it together? Everybody gives AK a free ride, our entire front court is terrible defensively.

[The Sheik]

Don't admit their mistakes and cut their losses?

Um, we traded Kirk Snyder after his first season as a Jazz man. Humps after his second, exposed Sasha to the expansion draft, traded away Arroyo while he still had some value (got a 1st in return, a massive coupe in retrospect)....need I go on?

The Jazz have always been ready to move on from a mistake. I just don't think its as easy as you make it out to be in this case. No one is out looking to take on AKs massive contract, least of all by giving us something great in return. I think the Jazz have done well in handling it, rather than doing a Toronto or Philly and giving him away for 15 cents on the dollar.

You have some good points, but at the same time all the trades that have been made as of late(excluding the Fisher and Knight trades) have been made at Sloans behest. He clashed with Gira, Arroyo, Hump and Snyder. LHM also had no attachment to any of these players. On the other hand he has had a chubby for AK for quite some time. When you look at it, all of these moves were positive except perhaps the Humphries one(a few more yrs down the line).

I agree that it isnt as simple as trading him, but here is the bottom line. Keeping AK means saying bye to at least 2 outta 5 of these players:

Boozer
Memo
Korver
Millsap
Brewer

IMO AK is the weakest player(mentally) on this team. He isnt glue, he is nothing more then a huge pampered baby that plays when he wants to, or when he feels "involved". The fact that he needs offensive touches to play defense pisses me off.

and again IMO I dont think this core team is gonna win a ship. I do however think that minus AK we can still make the playoffs. If we build around a core of Memo, Boozer and D-Will...while having a secondary core of Korver, Brewer, Miles and Millsap, while developing Kosta and Fess. I think we can be title contenders in 2-3 yrs.

AKs entire contract practical re-signs CJ, Millsap and Brewer. Lets just pull the cord and move on. I hope they prove me wrong and win a ship, but thats gonna be hard to do.

[cjs55]

Have you watched any Jazz games? What exactly does AK do to hold it together? Everybody gives AK a free ride, our entire front court is terrible defensively.

AK is only bad guarding SGs on the perimiter. Why anyone expects a 3/4 combo player to be able to defend the best 2 guards in the game is beyond me. AK and Milsap are the only two players who play any good defense in the paint. And yeah, I think AK does play good defense in the paint and is an above average defender overall. He's the only person who can provide help defense other than Milsap on the team. He obviously hasn't been playing 100% the last few years, but the fact is you take him out, you need to replace his shot blocking, deflections, and help defense. Both of which Memo and Boozer are absolutely atrocious at.

I'm fine with getting rid of AK, but I'll tell you that the Jazz will never win a championship without frontcourt help right now.

And of course I watched every game last season. Why would I be on a jazz message board if I weren't a fan?

[d-will8]

4 years left on Carter at nearly $15M per season, thats too much
Marion is going to pull a hissy-fit until he gets similar money. I honestly believe he will make himself as difficult to work with as possible until he either gets paid or goes elsewhere (see ManRam).

The question I have is simple:
Will the Jazz be willing to take a contract that expires NEXT year instead of this year?
If LHM would be willing to pay the tax for 1 season, then we may be able to keep Boozer, Memo, Millsap, and Korver...which I see as a long-term plus. Once the contract expires, we're back under the tax threshold. (An example would be Ben Wallace, who has the same contract, but expires next season).

I didn't mean to suggest that I would trade AK for Carter. I just wanted to illustrate the point that it probably won't be impossible to trade him. As for trading AK to the Cavs, for either Big Ben or Wally World, while both deals are intriguing insofar as they would improve our cap situation and, in either case, purely from a basketball standpoint, would be a steal for Cleveland, I don't think they would be interested in taking on AK's contract since they'll want to have cap space in 2010 to re-sign LeBron and perhaps bring in some (cheaper) help for him.

[schneiderjazz]

You have some good points, but at the same time all the trades that have been made as of late(excluding the Fisher and Knight trades) have been made at Sloans behest. He clashed with Gira, Arroyo, Hump and Snyder. LHM also had no attachment to any of these players. On the other hand he has had a chubby for AK for quite some time. When you look at it, all of these moves were positive except perhaps the Humphries one(a few more yrs down the line).

I agree that it isnt as simple as trading him, but here is the bottom line. Keeping AK means saying bye to at least 2 outta 5 of these players:

Boozer
Memo
Korver
Millsap
Brewer

IMO AK is the weakest player(mentally) on this team. He isnt glue, he is nothing more then a huge pampered baby that plays when he wants to, or when he feels "involved". The fact that he needs offensive touches to play defense pisses me off.

and again IMO I dont think this core team is gonna win a ship. I do however think that minus AK we can still make the playoffs. If we build around a core of Memo, Boozer and D-Will...while having a secondary core of Korver, Brewer, Miles and Millsap, while developing Kosta and Fess. I think we can be title contenders in 2-3 yrs.

AKs entire contract practical re-signs CJ, Millsap and Brewer. Lets just pull the cord and move on. I hope they prove me wrong and win a ship, but thats gonna be hard to do.

I honestly don't buy this AK is the weakest mentally on the team thing. Yes, he makes dumb mistakes. Sometimes more than we'd like, but how is he weaker than the others? Is it because he cried?
I find it funny that when the Jazz were doing terribly in December and Deron was making dumb mistake after dumb mistake with games on the line, nobody said a thing. Boozer had a terrible playoff performance, and although he was heavily criticized, nobody said he was mentally weak. Now AK, on the other hand, had some difficulty adjusting to a smaller role and he's the weakest guy (mentally) on the team.
I guess what people are failing to realize is that AK is a role player. Have you ever seen a Spurs box score? Bruce Bowen sometimes goes for 20 points, and sometimes doesn't score at all. He does the little things that help the team win. That's what AK does. He's not supposed to put the team on his back. That's Deron and Boozer's job.
I agree that trading AK would be good 'cause it would allow the Jazz to re-sign Korver, Memo, Sap and Boozer. I doubt that we're able to keep all of them, with or without AK on the team though. I agree with bsutefan that Larry Miller paying the tax for a year would be the best solution for the team. It'd give the Jazz more options down the road. And although it's becoming impossible to keep AK on the team because of his salary, my guess is he'll be really missed when he's gone.
Oh, and judging AK's performance at the PF based on only one game, when Russia was already out of the tournament, and he was playing against a guy that made his living as a low post presence under FIBA rules is just ridiculous. Hell, let's grab one of Boozer's first game in the Olympics and say he sucks, because he's being dominated by scrubs.

[Batu7]

I honestly don't buy this AK is the weakest mentally on the team thing. Yes, he makes dumb mistakes. Sometimes more than we'd like, but how is he weaker than the others? Is it because he cried?

I guess what people are failing to realize is that AK is a role player. Have you ever seen a Spurs box score? Bruce Bowen sometimes goes for 20 points, and sometimes doesn't score at all. He does the little things that help the team win. That's what AK does. He's not supposed to put the team on his back. That's Deron and Boozer's job.

I agree that trading AK would be good 'cause it would allow the Jazz to re-sign Korver, Memo, Sap and Boozer. I doubt that we're able to keep all of them, with or without AK on the team though. I agree with bsutefan that Larry Miller paying the tax for a year would be the best solution for the team. It'd give the Jazz more options down the road. And although it's becoming impossible to keep AK on the team because of his salary, my guess is he'll be really missed when he's gone.

Oh, and judging AK's performance at the PF based on only one game, when Russia was already out of the tournament, and he was playing against a guy that made his living as a low post presence under FIBA rules is just ridiculous. Hell, let's grab one of Boozer's first game in the Olympics and say he sucks, because he's being dominated by scrubs.

1) I agree. IIRC, T-Mac cried at the press conference when we eliminated the Rockets. Why isn't he called weak?
2) I think we all understand this. The problem is, role players shouldn't play for the max.
3) If LHM pays the tax for that year, how much is he going to pay?
4) Yes, if you want to criticize him based on international play, keep in mind that he was the MVP of Eurobasket 2007 and played great in that tournament.

[JStockLivesOn]

I thought AK was really good for us this year for the most part. The problem is just, as has been noted, that the price tag is impossibly high for what he gives us.

[The Sheik]

What does crying have to do with it? Who cares if AK cried, that has nothing to do with this. He is weak, because thats the kind of player he is. He is a pre Madonna role player getting max money. The worst part of AKs game is that he isnt even a role player. Unlike the Bowens of the world, AK wont take one for the team. Instead he whines and complains about touches and needing to be active on offense to be able to play defense. This team in general is weak mentally, and I have stated that in the past. Why do you think we constantly get worked my SA and LA? Lack of confidence and weak mentality are the big reasons we fell behind 20 at LA in the playoffs.

Like Ive said before, my favorite example is one that Locke has given. There are people that are ballers and then there are those that play basketball because of their body and height. AK is the latter. I dont see the desire or the heart to win games in AK(among many others on this team). He continues to regress and I think this organization is moronic for not trading him for Marion(supposedly).

Im honestly flabbergasted that people are calling him the glue guy on this team. Or the Bowen of this team. If you want a role player, look up Brewer, Ronnie. Ronnie gets no plays ran for him, never complains and still scores more then Andrei, why? Because he works his tail off getting open on offense. He clearly deserves to play more then the 24 mpg he plays, but he doesnt complain.

Lastly people will come on here and talk about AKs run of double doubles and multiple flirts of triple doubles(succeeding once). Realize those were in the beginning of the season and then anything similar to that in the box score faded away. This is because Deron deferred to AK and he and sloan let him handle the ball more. All Im saying is our record wasnt pretty during that time, all of that wasnt AKs fault, however, its a rather interesting coincidence. I even recall making mention to that throughout December. Something to the effect of "if this is what we get for having AK happy, then Im out."

[schneiderjazz]

What does crying have to do with it? Who cares if AK cried, that has nothing to do with this. He is weak, because thats the kind of player he is. He is a pre Madonna role player getting max money. The worst part of AKs game is that he isnt even a role player. Unlike the Bowens of the world, AK wont take one for the team. Instead he whines and complains about touches and needing to be active on offense to be able to play defense. This team in general is weak mentally, and I have stated that in the past. Why do you think we constantly get worked my SA and LA? Lack of confidence and weak mentality are the big reasons we fell behind 20 at LA in the playoffs.

Like Ive said before, my favorite example is one that Locke has given. There are people that are ballers and then there are those that play basketball because of their body and height. AK is the latter. I dont see the desire or the heart to win games in AK(among many others on this team). He continues to regress and I think this organization is moronic for not trading him for Marion(supposedly).

Im honestly flabbergasted that people are calling him the glue guy on this team. Or the Bowen of this team. If you want a role player, look up Brewer, Ronnie. Ronnie gets no plays ran for him, never complains and still scores more then Andrei, why? Because he works his tail off getting open on offense. He clearly deserves to play more then the 24 mpg he plays, but he doesnt complain.

Lastly people will come on here and talk about AKs run of double doubles and multiple flirts of triple doubles(succeeding once). Realize those were in the beginning of the season and then anything similar to that in the box score faded away. This is because Deron deferred to AK and he and sloan let him handle the ball more. All Im saying is our record wasnt pretty during that time, all of that wasnt AKs fault, however, its a rather interesting coincidence. I even recall making mention to that throughout December. Something to the effect of "if this is what we get for having AK happy, then Im out."

Funny thing is when AK was averaging 5.6 assists in November the Jazz were 12-5. I don't believe the Jazz record in December was AK's fault. There were a lot of road games and the team, as a whole, was mentally weak.
I agree that, sooner or later, the Jazz will have to trade AK. But a rotation of Miles, Brewer, Korver and Harp doesn't look that good to me. Trading AK for expirings just to re-sign everyone, IMO, is a bad move. Do you honestly believe the team will be better with him gone?

[cjs55]

Does AK wish he was playing for Russia as the first option instead of the Jazz every night? Yep.
Does AK not give his best? No doubt. (although I still think he cares more than Boozer about basketball, who doesn't even seem to care when he butchers a playoff series)
Is AK mentally weak? Sure

Is AK one of the only two players on the team who can provide any sort of help defense in the paint, with two of the worst bigmen in the league at it starting? Yes.


I honestly believe that if we take out AK, we lose just as many games as if we took out Boozer. Our record is 7-2 without Boozer the last 2 years, and the best game we played last season was against L.A. at home was without Boozer or Okur.