CJ Miles

Post #1 » by **jazzfan1971** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:22 am

I still say he isn't that great. I really don't know what the coaches see in him giving him a starting role. I'd rather give those minutes to Korver. Or Millsap. Or even Harpring. Where does that put CJ in my SF depth chart? 5th?

I know there are a lot of Miles fans on here. And I guess I'm one of the haters. But, lets hear how you feel about his 3 game stint as a starting SF.

I think he's mostly been invisible. Not bad. Not good. Just there.

Ming Kong! · Post #2 » by **Ming Kong!** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:48 am

Lots of our guys have started off well, he's just off to a slow start, but even then, he only has 1 to in 27 total minutes, so it's not like he's hurting us so bad. 4/12 FGs is not good either, but if he would have made 2 of those he missed he'd be sitting at .500. I think he'll show up soon, and if he doesn't it's not the end of the world with AK playing so well off the bench anyways, and getting starter minutes too.

The Sheik · Post #3 » by **The Sheik** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 7:43 am

I honestly dont know what you're expecting. The guy is only going to play 12-14 mpg. You shouldnt expect more then 6-8 ppg 2-3 rpg 1-2 apg.

Thats a hard position to put anyone in.

schneiderjazz · Post #4 » by **schneiderjazz** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 2:43 pm

I'm with you jazzfan. CJ has a beautiful shot and is pretty athletic, but his minutes should be going to Brewer and Korver or even Harp when he gets back. He makes bad decisions all the time, especially on the fast break. And he takes some shots he really shouldn't take. I think you can argue that he doesn't do anything better than Korver or Brewer, so there's no reason for him to get minutes, when Brewer and Korver are not getting even 30 minutes per game.

Soul Patch · Post #5 » by **Soul Patch** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:10 pm

It looked like he would break plays if he had a look at a jumpshot, but if he followed the system he'd get his. That's just based off of last night. Give him a couple more games under his belt and he'll improve. It won't be anything amazing because he's not getting large amounts of minutes.

jazzrock · Post #6 » by **jazzrock** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 6:18 pm

Its all about the rotation and he is good for the rotation. AK has been a stud so far coming off the bench. I want to keep it that way. AK's new role is perfect for him and it has improved our second team and thus our overall team a ton. Korver backs up Brewer. Plain and simple. You dont give CJ's minutes to Brewer cuz both of them are starting right now. And if you give those minutes to Korver, who backs up Brewer? CJ?

You say CJ hasnt helped us? He absolutely has. He allows AK to come off the bench in a new role that has dramatically improved AK's game. Thats how CJ has helped us. And with the other starters we have, who do you want to get less touches so that CJ or another starting SF can get more touches anyways? Right now, if he plays defense, he is great for the rotation. Even better for the rotation than Harpring when Matt comes back. Matt will demand more touches (that he will ulimately fumble or disrupt the flow of the offense) and will take away from the starters who should be touching the ball and making shots.

Oh, and by the way, I am not a CJ homer.

Post #7 » by **JStockLivesOn** » Sun Nov 2, 2008 11:57 pm

I'm with 71 on this. CJ has, yet again and not surprisingly, been very underwhelming. He's a poor decision-maker and too quick to break plays to jack up shots. I'm not giving up all hope on him, but I also don't have the undying faith in him that some of my fellow fans on here do.

Duiz · Post #8 » by **Duiz** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:11 am

I think he is a valuable player, as he can do many things on the court, from playing defense, go to block a shot, or collapse defenses. I don't think we question to much his talent here, so I don't want to restate what many people have. The problem with CJ is that he doesn't know what to do as an SF. He will foul-out easily, overpowered by bigger men, and his shot isn't too consistent. He has too much of a Smush Parker complex, which is a shame for his talent. CJ could have literally been a 16 PPG 7 RPG, 5 APG guy for Oklahoma, but here, he has to subdue to almost everyone, even Ronnie Brewer, and they aren't looking for him to score.

Honestly, I just don't think he understands his role. Better than Matt? Yes, Matt will be done with his career pretty soon, his best years are past him. CJ? We are gonna have him for 3 more years, so let's find him a place and let's have him get used to it.

I guess it is the curse of the SFs on with Sloan... Chenney, Kirilenko, Pavlovic... whoever starts for Sloan as an SF for some reason always fails to really understand their role and place to the team.

Reckless · Post #9 » by **Reckless** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:15 am

I'm not sure the jazz is the best team for CJ. I would have liked to see him move on to another team..

For one his strength is the 3 point shot. As you know the jazz are always near the bottom of the league in 3 point shot attempts

CJ hasn't shown any ability of having a mid-range game which hurts his offensive production

He still makes dumb mistakes out there.

all things considered he has to play a lot better if he wants minutes from Sloan

schneiderjazz · Post #10 » by **schneiderjazz** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:23 am

jazzrock wrote:Its all about the rotation and he is good for the rotation. AK has been a stud so far coming off the bench. I want to keep it that way. AK's new role is perfect for him and it has improved our second team and thus our overall team a ton. Korver backs up Brewer. Plain and simple. You dont give CJ's minutes to Brewer cuz both of them are starting right now. And if you give those minutes to Korver, who backs up Brewer? CJ?

You say CJ hasnt helped us? He absolutely has. He allows AK to come off the bench in a new role that has dramatically improved AK's game. Thats how CJ has helped us. And with the other starters we have, who do you want to get less touches so that CJ or another starting SF can get more touches anyways? Right now, if he plays defense, he is great for the rotation. Even better for the rotation than Harpring when Matt comes back. Matt will demand more touches (that he will ulimately fumble or disrupt the flow of the offense) and will take away from the starters who should be touching the ball and making shots.

Oh, and by the way, I am not a CJ homer.

You can take Miles out of the rotation without messing up with it. Let Brewer play 7 more minutes and Korver 8 more minutes. Brewer will be playing around 34 and Korver about 28 minutes. Start Korver and bring in AK for him with 5 minutes left in the first quarter. Let Brewer play until the 7 minute mark in the second quarter and bring Korver in. Make Miles earn his minutes. So far, he hasn't IMO.

idajazz · Post #11 » by **idajazz** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 1:57 am

I'd rather keep Mo Nut

erudite23 · Post #12 » by **erudite23** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 3:26 am

I am genuinely shocked at the eagerness of fans to jump on young players. The dude is getting 5-6 minutes of burn at the beggining of each half. That is not conducive to him posting good looking stats.

Does he throw the ball up prematurely from time to time? Sure. Does he make a steady stream of plays and change games? Of course not.

He has a jumpshot that should allow him to hit open Js. He can handle the ball if/when needed, and runs the floor well. He's a very good finisher at the hoop. He plays very solid defense.

All the things we need from a guy getting 12mpg with our starting unit. More importantly, we don't have to worry about feeding him the ball and keeping him happy, which is huge considering that he may be the only player on the starting unit you could say that about.

CJ is still a young guy who is developing. He's to the point where he is a real, genuine NBA player who doesn't look out of place and won't kill you if you play him for stretches at a time. That is progress. Has it been relatively slow? Yeah, it has. But its also been steady, and shows no sign of stopping.

I like him. I like what I'm seeing. And I don't know why you guys are jumping to hate on him.

Duiz · Post #13 » by **Duiz** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:25 am

By the way, just to make it clear... I am totally behind the decision of matching his contract.

schneiderjazz · Post #14 » by **schneiderjazz** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:34 am

erudite23 wrote:I am genuinely shocked at the eagerness of fans to jump on young players. The dude is getting 5-6 minutes of burn at the beggining of each half. That is not conducive to him posting good looking stats.

Does he throw the ball up prematurely from time to time? Sure. Does he make a steady stream of plays and change games? Of course not.

He has a jumpshot that should allow him to hit open Js. He can handle the ball if/when needed, and runs the floor well. He's a very good finisher at the hoop. He plays very solid defense.

All the things we need from a guy getting 12mpg with our starting unit. More importantly, we don't have to worry about feeding him the ball and keeping him happy, which is huge considering that he may be the only player on the starting unit you could say that about.

I don't think Korver or Brewer would mind playing more minutes, even if they were the 4th or 5th option on the floor. Hell, they normally are the 4th or 5th option on the floor when playing with the starters.

erudite23 wrote:CJ is still a young guy who is developing. He's to the point where he is a real, genuine NBA player who doesn't look out of place and won't kill you if you play him for stretches at a time. That is progress. Has it been relatively slow? Yeah, it has. But its also been steady, and shows no sign of stopping.

I like him. I like what I'm seeing. And I don't know why you guys are jumping to hate on him.

I'd say that although he doesn't look out of place, he's not doing much to make it look like he belongs either. No one is expecting for him to be Kobe in 15 minutes a game. We're just expecting him to play well and he's not really doing it. I know it's early and I'm completely overreacting after just 2 games, but we do have better options than him. Should we really be trying to develop a player when every win counts in a crazy Western Conference?
And call me crazy but I don't think he has made that much progress, if any, since he got here. He had some nice games last year and I was happy when the Jazz matched the OKC offer, but I'm starting to wonder for how long we're gonna keep saying that CJ is just young and needs time.

The Sheik · Post #15 » by **The Sheik** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:52 am

erudite23 wrote:I am genuinely shocked at the eagerness of fans to jump on young players. The dude is getting 5-6 minutes of burn at the beggining of each half. That is not conducive to him posting good looking stats.

Does he throw the ball up prematurely from time to time? Sure. Does he make a steady stream of plays and change games? Of course not.

He has a jumpshot that should allow him to hit open Js. He can handle the ball if/when needed, and runs the floor well. He's a very good finisher at the hoop. He plays very solid defense.

All the things we need from a guy getting 12mpg with our starting unit. More importantly, we don't have to worry about feeding him the ball and keeping him happy, which is huge considering that he may be the only player on the starting unit you could say that about.

CJ is still a young guy who is developing. He's to the point where he is a real, genuine NBA player who doesn't look out of place and won't kill you if you play him for stretches at a time. That is progress. Has it been relatively slow? Yeah, it has. But its also been steady, and shows no sign of stopping.

I like him. I like what I'm seeing. And I don't know why you guys are jumping to hate on him.

Thank you. I guess the just needed the annual Jazz board Realgm surveys best poster to tell them....haha.

Wolverine · Post #16 » by **Wolverine** » Mon Nov 3, 2008 10:46 am

I'd rather see more minutes for Korver, Brewer & AK

erudite23 · Post #17 » by **erudite23** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 7:40 am

Thanks for the props, Sheik.

And, schneider, I don't think you are paying attention. CJ Miles, in his rookie season, looked like a stray puppy who had happened to wander onto an NBA court and was running between players legs, trying not to get stepped on. He was a joke. He didn't belong.

Even his 2nd season, for most of it, he looked the same way. Last year he looked like a decent backup at times, and like a D-Leaguer other times.

This year, he looks like a real NBA player. Its been a steady growth curve, and he absolutely has improved by leaps and bounds. Whether that means he will or not is another story. Right now, he has the confidence and skill set to hang with the other 9 guys on the court. That wasn't there in previous seasons. That's progress.

My issue with him is his tendency to simply say "**** it, I'm shooting" and jack up shots. He needs to stop doing that, and let his movement away from the ball be what gets him looks. But he has been...I hesitate to use the word "tremendous", but let's just say "very good" on defense. He's moving his feet, playing with hustle and energy, and staying in front of his man. I love that. Aside from that, he's rotating the ball to the right guy, setting the occasional pick, running the floor, rebounding in his area, and spacing the floor for the big guys with the threat of his shot. He is doing his job.

However, with all that said, he's going to have to do better if he wants to keep his rotation spot. Harp is coming back and will push for PT. I don't see KK, Brew, or AK losing any of theirs to him as it currently stands. So CJ has got to do a little more. That means making more hustle plays, getting his hands on the ball defensively and not jacking up contested jumpers. I think he can do it. We'll see if he does.

But he isn't hurting our team at all. He's been solid.

Post #18 » by **JStockLivesOn** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:21 am

The truth, I feel, is as always in the middle.

CJ has not been terrible by any stretch of the imagination. He has also never done anything to deserve the boundless adoration and faith he gets from a lot of people either.

Duiz · Post #19 » by **Duiz** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:23 am

The guy barely gets 12 minutes, and no plays for him. Give him a break will ya? If Okur wouldn't have been a wimp today, CJ would have gotten a couple of assists.

Post #20 » by **JStockLivesOn** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:27 am

I should clarify:

I'm not upset with CJ or feelin' hate for him right now. I'm indifferent to him. I'd prefer to give his minutes to Brewer and Korver, or to Harpring when he returns. That's not an indictment of CJ. It's just a fact that Brewer and Korver are better, more productive players right now.

It's not as if I believe he'll never amount to anything, or ignore the improvements he's made. But I don't think he's progressed enough to be the team heartthrob, as he is with some.