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While many people are making this a Boozer or Millsap issue think about this for a second.

We have had 2 succesful seasons. Now for some reason when both are healthy Memo and Boozer can not sustain their peak averages together. Everyone knows they're terrible defensively together, but Im not talking about that.

Look at our last 2 seasons.

Yr 1:

Boozer gets hurt and as everyone remembers Okur became clutch and the money man and played out of this world and averaged 20.5 ppg and nearly 7 boards over 2 months, playing so well he is invited to the all-star game.

Boozer comes back, Memo has a baby and we all know how it ends. Boozer has a great 2nd half...Memo struggles into the playoffs and Boozer excels.

Yr 2:

Memo has a terrible start to the first 3 months of the season. Boozer put up MVP consideration type stats 23.9 ppg 11.4 rpg and even ****ed around and got a triple double.

Boozer goes down and out of nowhere the money man returns and has a strong end to the season averaging 17.5 ppg and 11 rpg. He even continued it into the post season and averaged a double double throughout and as most of you remember Boozer disappeared through the 2nd half and the playoffs (thus establishing the all star curse)

Now here we are in yr 3 and Memo and Booz have only played 5 games together, but considering the trend Im sure one would be struggling. Meanwhile with Boozer out Memo has been averaging:

18.2 ppg
8.7 rpg

48.7 FG%
40.7 3P%

and as all Jazz fans have noticed Millsap is not struggling by any means.

I dont know why it is the way it is, these 5 yrs have been fun, but its time for Carlos or Memo to hit the road. Considering Memo will probably cost 5 million less I think Booz needs to go.

Clearly there is no bias here because everyone knows I rag on both of these players from time to time and more so on Memo. Then again that nutless wonder is injured and we cant do anything about it now or maybe even this season.

I didn't watch a lot Jazz games, so my opinion would be not objective enough, but I do think that Millsap game is more completing Okur role on the O-side (by letting him work more closely to 3-pt line) and let him guard slow centers and guarding offensive threats. Plus, Okur showed, that he is capable of pushing around with some big guys like Yao and O'Neal.
So, I do agree with Shiek. Even if we are loosing Boozer we are going to have some good personalties. I will take Millsap hard work and Okur good guy-appearance over Boozer talant. But that just me.

I completely agree, and nice Icecube quote.

i would love to somehow use memo at pf considering that s his natural position. but that wont happen since millsap too undersized to play at 5.

but i agree, i would part ways with boozer before memo, not only because of money issue but also memo is bit more durable.

boozer is a lock to be out of salt lake city this offseason, so jazz dont have to make a decision about boozer or okur...

Please do share with us how you know that...

I think they work quite well together offensively. Let's just put it this way: Do KG, Allen and Pierce not work well together because their numbers are down from what they used to be? Memo is an outside threat and Boozer is an inisde threat. Offensively, I think you couldn't ask for a better duo. Their struggles IMO are more just slumps than one interfering with the other. Defensively though, they kinda suck. Neither is a shotblocker and both are kinda slow footed. Memo does well guarding slower guys, Boozer is average or below average against anyone.
I wanna say that we don't need Boozer, since I was never a big fan of his, Sap has been awesome and Memo's inside game has gotten better, but until we start winning consistently, I'm not sure Boozer should be the one to go.

^ I agree for the most part. The only part I don't agree with is calling Boozer an average defender. He could possibly become average, if he actually tried... maybe.

I really don't think either player "really works" with the jazz. Okur is nice, but teams are just putting smaller faster players on him to guard his jumpers. This being the case Okur can take the smaller players inside, but I would consider his inside game to be average. The idea of a 3pt shooting center is novel, but ultimately, I would rather have a shot blocker inside. Boozer, like all of you mentioned, is too expensive and injury prone, otherwise he is a very good fit for this team.

I think boozer saying he will opt out, combined with his injuries and milsap's strong play almost guarantees that he will not be playing basketball in a jazz uniform next year. I say let boozer go. He is more talented than milsap, but does not demonstrate a consistent effort on the defensive end of the court. At least with sap, you know the effort is going to be there.

russ1 wrote:At least with sap, you know the effort is going to be there.

That's what it comes down to for me. Boozer is a more talented and polished offensive player, but Sap gives it everything he has on every single possession on both sides of the ball.

I'm tryinr to recall if any "average" pf has gone off for big numbers since Sap has been starting....that was consistently the case with Booze

jazzed77 wrote:I'm tryinr to recall if any "average" pf has gone off for big numbers since Sap has been starting....that was consistently the case with Booze

This is an outright fabrication and lie, born of hazy remembrances and the need to find a scape goat.

The 3 best games by a PF against us this year are:

Zach Randolph: 9/20, 25 points, 14 reb
In this game, he played mostly center anyway, wasn't guarded by Boozer, and had a typical game for what he was producing at the time. David Lee, who played alongside him for much of the game and was guarded by Carlos as much or more than Zach was 2 for 8 with 8 point and 8 rebounds.

Jamison: 6/15, 21 points, 8 rebounds, 8/9 FTs
Not much to look at here. Actually a below average game for Antawn, although his 9 FTAs were a big key. Actually, Javale McGee was the bigger problem for us in this game, as he posted 13 and 11 on 4 of 5 from the field and 5 of 8 from the line. Hard to pin that on Carlos, though, as he certainly wasn't assigned to guarding him. The fact that Memo missed this game and Kosta was doing his deer-in-the-headlights routine certainly was a big part of it, along with having to play ultra small ball with a Boozer/Millsap and AK/Millsap frontcourt. More of a matchups issue here than anything.

Amare: 10/17 FG, 30 points, 8 rebounds
Pretty good game from Amare, but could you honestly say this was Boozer's fault? Even if it is, this is the best game by an opposing PF in the entire time Boozer played. Considering that its barely above average for the guy, I can certainly live with it. Not even note worthy.

Bogut: 6/13, 16 points, 20 rebounds
And this wasn't even a PF. Just thought I would throw it in.




As you can see, there are no mystical big games from random people here. Javale McGee was the closest thing to it, and he is a freakin' giraffe playing on a night when we had no viable centers to throw at him, on just the right night for McGee himself, when everything was going his way.

Its not a true statement.

Not just that, but if you look at last season's rankings, the Jazz had the best combined interior defense of any team in the league, according to the PER charts sorted by opponent position. The Jazz were 7th in opposing PER vs the PF position and 1st overall against Centers. So your argument has no weight. I detailed this during the off season. Carlos' defensive issues are overblown.


What no one has been mentioning is that our defensive rebounding has been horrific this year. Typically, we dominate the boards, but with Boozer out this season we have struggled to clean up the defensive glass. We are among the 3 or 4 worst teams in the league in defensive rebound rate. Millsap is a beast on the offensive glass, but he is only "pretty good" on the defensive end. We have to get better there, as its killing our defensive rating, which would otherwise be vastly improved from last year.

Enter Carlos, who is arguably the premier defensive rebounder in the NBA right now, posting equal DRR with Dwight Howard. He was a monster on the glass before getting injured. Just a monster.

The fact is that we are 8-4 with Carlos Boozer this year, even sans Deron Williams. Without him we are 13-11. Why isn't anyone talking about this in their hurry to crucify the guy for "dogging it" and being a lazy, heartless, dishonest piece of ****? I don't get it. We are obviously missing the guy tremendously, even with Millsap killing it like he has been.

Why doesn't everyone stop trying to remake the Jazz roster and let the season play out. This season has f***ing sucked, yes. But there's nothing we can do about it except watch it play out. We're not trading Carlos this year. Live with that, please. When the off season comes, we will see how the chips fall. But in the meantime we need to concentrate on Deron Williams' health, watch the evolution of Paul Millsap's offensive game (we already know he can rebound, hustle and play D) and get everyone on the same page in time to make a late season run.

This year was supposed to be the wire-to-wire show off with the Lakers, and we had a team that was capable of it.

That's gone now.

Quit trying to find someone to enact your vengeance upon, and lets dial down the expectations, watch the developing storylines that are there, and then see if we can put it all together at the end.

As for the Millsap/Boozer/Okur/AK dilemma.....its important, its crucial to our future, and it will likely hinge on one or two factors that are completely impossible to predict and will change the landscape of the NBA's FA market. Don't sweat it.



Oh, and Boozer and Okur work great together, btw. I do acknowledge that they haven't really both got it going at the same time, yet, but I think its about 80% coincidence and 20% mental for Memo.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to last year, when yes, some very average PFs would have career nights, and it seemed to happen a lot. This year Booz hasn't been around long enough to play really bad D, it actually seemed like he was playing much better D before he got injured, maybe due to a contract season. Who knows. But I absolutely remember a good number of sub-par to average PFs going off on us, such as Gooden. Can't think of any others off the top of my head, but yeah, I agree with jazzed77.

HammerDunk wrote:I'm pretty sure he was referring to last year, when yes, some very average PFs would have career nights, and it seemed to happen a lot. This year Booz hasn't been around long enough to play really bad D, it actually seemed like he was playing much better D before he got injured, maybe due to a contract season. Who knows. But I absolutely remember a good number of sub-par to average PFs going off on us, such as Gooden. Can't think of any others off the top of my head, but yeah, I agree with jazzed77.

i was talking about his time in utah as a whole....I'm thinking Scola, Gooden, whoever that guy that plays PF for SA(not Duncan) as far as their PER by position..I'll take your word that they score high on the chart, but if you're trying to argue that the team in general and Booze in particular play "good" interior defense then you've either missed alot of games or you're delusional......

A Richard Jefferson for Carlos Boozer trade is being discussed on the Bucks page, would you guys be interested?

^^^

That isn't the best trade, but I like Millsap so much that I would accept that trade above.That's probably the best we could get for him.

jefferson is useless for this team not to mention he has a contract that runs through 10/11 which would negatively effect upcoming free agency discussions. i rather keep boozer and hope for him to comeback for a solid playoff push and let him expire at the end of the season if jefferson is the best available option out there.

I thought RJ's contract ended this offseason. NVM i wouldn't do it.

I'd honestly rather have Marion knowing that he expiries, and have a starting line up of...

Deron/Brewer/Marion/Millsap/Okur

With a bench of...

Knight/Korver/AK/Koufos

And just switch off Marion, Millsap and Okur in the back up PF role. That's a very good team, the starting line up's defense is money. That team could be poised to make a run, and everyone knows the Jazz system is very beneficial to players with Marion's skills.

I would pull the trigger on this deal in a heart beat.

Boozer and Harpring

for

Marion and a second rounder, or rights to swap second rounders.