Is it just me or is Kyle Korver a...

[3960HOOD]

Ball hog? The guy is the ultimate chucker, anytime he has the ball in his hands he looks to shoot it, ive seen him do it on fastbreaks as well, were he wont give up the ball! Anyone else notice this?

[Lava Rock Kid]

He has been shooting more, but I think he needs to. He needs to shoot in rythm and quit worring about if their is a better shot. When he begins thinking he misses.

Is this CJ MIles?

[DelaneyRudd]

No, he is a shooter. He isn't dribbling through packs, he isn't unwilling to pass. He shoots when he is open. The Jazz system short changes him I think, as a rythem three is not ofter the call. It is always a second or third option. I think Kyle gets credit for that fact from the coaches, but it doesn't translate to those who aren't in the huddle.

[hoops4life]

Hasn't Sloan basically given him the green light?

[carrottop12]

He shoots a lot, but on this team I am happy to have him shoot a lot, there just aren't many players on this team capable of hitting the long ball which you need to win.

He's going to be much improved when Boozer returns.

[DelaneyRudd]

Hasn't Sloan basically given him the green light?

He doesn't have the system though. Not that that is a bad thing, but he is a garbage player in the system. I think that effects his rhythm a bit.

[jazzfan1971]

I've seen him quite willing to pass the ball. Not sure we see the same player.

[Jazzman20]

You know, I think that the Jazz should take advantage of the fact that Korver is a pure-shooter, not just a pure-three-point-shooter. We could gain a lot by just having him shoot a lot more of those short-range jumpers...Calbert Cheaney anyone?

[The Sheik]

Kyle is the new Giricek. He is 2x the shooter, teammate and all around player of Giri, but Sloan treats him the same.

Sloan biggest problem IMO is that he doesnt find the best role for his players to play. His philosophy is just be ready to play. Look how long it took him to find a role for AK, and he had as much to do with the Giri drama as Giri did.

I think the worst thing that happened to Kyles career was getting traded here. He has definitely been streaky with his shooting, but he has never had to be in this kind of role. I just dont get why Sloan doesnt wise up and start Korver and bring CJ off the bench.

I think Korver gets better looks and it adds more versatility in our play calling to start the game. Pick n Roll with Booz, Pick and pop with Memo, baseline curl for Korver, D-will creating open shots with dribble penetration and Ronnie Roaming.

CJ and AK together would be great off the bench and it allows CJ to be a scorer.

[erudite23]

Um, no, no and no.

He isn't a ballhog. He doesn't shoot too much and this system is absolutely perfect for him.

The dude has serious limitations. He can't stay in front of his man on defense, he is a horrible--though willing--passer, an awful ball handler, and a mediocre at best rebounder. That's why he's not playing more.

What he IS is smart, tough, and unselfish, besides being a great shooter when healthy. His problem has been his wrist. Last I checked, you needed it to shoot the basketball, and his hasn't been close to normal all season long. He might as well be out for the year, because with the hit he's taken to his shooting #s, he's barely even playable.

When he WAS healthy last year, this system that you guys are rushing to blame led to--by far--his best shooting numbers of his career, though it also came with a marked decrease in his 3 point attempts. In other words, he WAS getting a lot of good midrange looks, and making them. He was also getting a lot of good 3 point shots, but he just has never quite settled in as a dead-eye 3 point shooter on the Jazz. Its weird and inexplicable that he didn't last year. This season, I suppose you have to blame the wrist. If he doesn't opt out, and still isn't shooting at least 42% from 3 by next years deadline, I say we trade his ass. I've gotten worn out with the lack of stroke from beyond the line.

[JStockLivesOn]

You seem very positive about the wrist being at fault in the second paragraph, but then switch to "I guess" in the third, E. I think we're just going to have to learn to accept that Kyle's a streaky shooter.

I would also dispute the point that he can't stay in front of his man on defense. I would argue he's a better defender than most of our other options, and as far as him being a "mediocre at best" rebounder, I think that's sort of harsh. In 23.2 minutes, he averages 3.1. CJ Miles, in 23.8 minutes, averages 2.5. In 31.8 minutes (8.6 mpg more than Korver), Brew averages 3.5.

Now, you could make the argument that all three are mediocre rebounders, but given the options we have to work with, Kyle is a very solid rebounder at his position.

[Jazzman20]

I agree with Korver starting- just get him in the action right away and get him some good looks. He's a good asset I think the Jazz should and could use much more. CJ and AK coming off of the bench looks pretty good to me....

[erudite23]

You seem very positive about the wrist being at fault in the second paragraph, but then switch to "I guess" in the third, E. I think we're just going to have to learn to accept that Kyle's a streaky shooter.

I would also dispute the point that he can't stay in front of his man on defense. I would argue he's a better defender than most of our other options, and as far as him being a "mediocre at best" rebounder, I think that's sort of harsh. In 23.2 minutes, he averages 3.1. CJ Miles, in 23.8 minutes, averages 2.5. In 31.8 minutes (8.6 mpg more than Korver), Brew averages 3.5.

Now, you could make the argument that all three are mediocre rebounders, but given the options we have to work with, Kyle is a very solid rebounder at his position.

BINGO! Our lack of rebounding from the wings this year has absolutely killed us. Understand that Brewer and Miles are both among the very worst rebounders at their positions. Brewer is at 6.6, while Miles is 6.2. Korver, on the other hand, is at 8.0, which is much better. Actually, if you classify Korver as a SG, then he would be among the better rebounders at his position, ranking 17th. But I think we all know that, at 6-7 with his movement abilities, he is more of the SF end of the swingman spectrum. Were he a SF, he would rank about 45th out of 64 SFs. CJ Miles, though he is probably more of a SG than a SF, comes in 59th among SFs....yes, that would be 5th worst in the league among all SFs. Brewer is 35th among 70 SGs, and I would place him right in the middle of the SG/SF position.

The point? Yeah, Korver is a decent rebounder. Bad if you count him as a SF, pretty good if you count him as a SG, overall just pretty mediocre. Ronnie and CJ are both terrible rebounders, something that is 100% completely and utterly inexcusable given their size and athleticism. Its a point I've been harping on all season long. The added playing time from CJ in particular has really killed our rebounding numbers, in addition to the loss of Carlos, obviously.



My point on Kyle is that we were supposed to be getting a dead-eye from long range. Instead we got a dude who was mediocre from 3 last year (though quite good inside the arc) and has been downright awful this year. There's no doubt its the wrist, but the bottom line is that we aren't getting the return on our investment. Without his shooting, Kyle Korver is not an NBA player. He just can't move well enough, nor does he have the requisite skill with the ball in other aspects of the game. His rebounding isn't what holds him back, granted, but it doesn't help make up for any of his weaknesses, either.

[carrottop12]

The dude has serious limitations. He can't stay in front of his man on defense, he is a horrible--though willing--passer, an awful ball handler, and a mediocre at best rebounder. That's why he's not playing more.

That's funny, I actually disagree with you on all of that. When the Jazz have a low post presence he's is probably the third best passer into the post the Jazz have on the team next to Williams and AK. And also, his rebounding is a breath of fresh air. His athleticism and size limit him, but he always is in the mix for rebounds, and I love that about him. He always goes for the board which is a huge asset. If everyone on the Jazz crashed like he does we'd easily be the top rebounding team.

His ball handling is just so so, which I wish was better because he'd be far more valuable, but he definitely has a solild role on this team.

[CAE15]

kyle korver seems to be a mid range shooter now and cant hit the deep ball aswell anymore. free throws are coming along to.

[ColdBlue]

My main problem with Korver is that if he isn't open, he is a black hole on offense. When his shots are contested, and he doesn't have the time to square up, than I would rather have other guys shooting it.

Although, I think his quick shot of the screen is getting better... not quite as good as Harp but getting there.

[HouseofBoozer]

I think all of us are real quick to jump on the players of this team (like the backup pgs, and now Korver) when truth is we have not seen a fully loaded, in rhythm Utah Jazz team. I'm really curious to see how they all play 10 games into the return of Boozer and Kirilenko. Most likely starting 5 is Williams, Miles, Brewer, Boozer, and Okur. Then who is the first guy off the bench? That to me is the most deadly thing about the Jazz. Sloan can instantly throw in 3 other guys and we don't lose much (in some cases gaining more with AK). This team with those three (Sap, KK, and AK) will be the most deadly bench in the league.

[erudite23]

The dude has serious limitations. He can't stay in front of his man on defense, he is a horrible--though willing--passer, an awful ball handler, and a mediocre at best rebounder. That's why he's not playing more.

That's funny, I actually disagree with you on all of that. When the Jazz have a low post presence he's is probably the third best passer into the post the Jazz have on the team next to Williams and AK. And also, his rebounding is a breath of fresh air. His athleticism and size limit him, but he always is in the mix for rebounds, and I love that about him. He always goes for the board which is a huge asset. If everyone on the Jazz crashed like he does we'd easily be the top rebounding team.

His ball handling is just so so, which I wish was better because he'd be far more valuable, but he definitely has a solild role on this team.

What you have to understand is that Kyle is not a creator. He never takes his man off the dribble, he doesn't create shots, he either spots up or rotates the ball. Considering this, he should have a TO rate in the range of about 7 or 8. He's at 10.4. Compare to CJ and Ronnie (both of whom take more chances with dribbling the ball and penetrating, etc) who are at 9.2 and 8.8 respectively, and you see that he is suprisingly TO prone. Then compare him to similar players who are spot-up guys only like Peja (6.0), Daequan Cook (5.6), Sasha Vujacic (5.9), Butler and Mo-Pete in NO (6.4 and 6.7), Michael Redd (7.0), Keith Bogans (7.6), Raja Bell (8.4), Battier (9.2) or even Matt Harpring (8.4).

The guy is TO prone, when he should have the lowest TO rate of any regular rotation player on the team, considering what he's asked to do. He has the least responsibility (along with maybe Matt) as far as dribbling and passing go, and he rarely gets the ball in traffic--which are the things that principally lead to TOs--yet he ranks right in the middle of all SGs in TO rate, with pretty much every player underneath him being someone who is a slasher/penetrator or just plain not very good.

I agree he plays his ass off, especially in rebounding, which is the only reason I haven't lost patience with him entirely. But he's still just "meh" as a rebounder for a swingman. When we play him at SG and AK at SF, along with Boozer at PF, we will have a pretty damn good rebounding lineup.

[red4hf]

I think Korver has been solid...... He plays defense, not great defense, but much better than a lot of our players, he'll dive on the floor, he hits big shots, he's not afraid to take big shots, he doesn't back down from a challenge.......

He's like what Harpring would be if Harpring had any talent left....... He's a better shooter than Matty, better passer/dribbler than Matty and plays better defense than Matty........

[jazzfan1971]

I wish I had seen the Laker game. I listened to the last 6 minutes on the radio and it sounded to me like CJ was playing like ass. Threw the ball out of bounds, missed a 5 footer, I think turned it over again, might have missed a free throw...

I was screaming for Korver. At least he can make a free throw.

But, I'm glad to hear CJ was actually playing well. Good stuff. You don't always get the whole picture on the radio, especially in 6 minutes.