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Spurs just got Jefferson for nothing in a salary dump. Spurs care about winning and understand that their core players are getting old, so they take a risk on Jefferson and his contract to win a championship even though it may cost them in the future.

Jazz rarely have done so in the past. Jazz play it safe and build through the draft and sign low level free agents. Boozer and Memo were risks one year when Jazz had alot of cap room. Jazz are at a cross roads in their organization where they either try to win it in next two years or go back to rebuilding hoping NYK pick helps them in the future.

If I were GM I trade for Amare and give up the NYK pick with Millsap. Thats is what it would take to get Amare. Let Boozer walk, and resign Korver and Memo. Amare may leave in a year or two but one championship is better than 10 years of mediocrity.

I totally agree with you that the Spurs are better than the Jazz because they are willing to take the risks necessary to have a legit shot at a title, while the Jazz just sit back in conservativeville and hope it just breaks their way. You make you own breaks.

But that being said I do not think Amare is the answer. First of all its hard to say if he will ever be totally the same after this eye surgery. Its a pretty big surgery. But most importantly I don't think his offense is that much better than Boozer's, he is not the rebounder Boozer is, and Amare isn't even an upgrade on defense of Boozer.

So while I agree the Jazz have to do something to push the organization forward, im not sure Amare is the direction to go to do that.

bad day for the Jazz.. that spurs lineup is looking pretty good now.

In other news, the sun is expected to set in the West this evening.

The Jazz are too risk averse to ever make this kind of high profile trade that could shake the balance of power in the west. Its sad/funny just how outclassed by the Spurs the Jazz have become. At least we can all think back fondly on those days when Mailman used the Admiral as his own personal heavy bag. I miss those days.

The Jazz played pretty risky when they signed Boozer/Okur; sadly enough the Boozer/Okur/Kirilenko experiment didin't pan out. Now the Jazz find themselves in a hard crossroad, which is exactly what happens when you take risks and things just don't go the way you expected.
What is clear for me is that Boozer, Okur, Millsap and Kirilenko won't get it done, and that Williams need backcourt help... so Jazz will have to take risky action no matter what.
We have to part with Boozer/Kirilenko by next midseason tradeline; and we have to get help for Williams now.

The Jazz could not have pulled off this trade as they do not have the expiring contracts to have made it work. Seriously people, unless you are dealing with the Grizzlies, both teams need to get something out of the trade.

Part of this is that the Spurs always seem to have their payroll/roster in a position to make deals to try to improve. Condsider that they were paying Bowen and Oberto each about the same we are paying CJ. This trade may or may not work: Jefferson is a better player but sometimes he doesn't keeop his mouth shut.

Spurs > Rest of league. Best front office in the game.

They used to be. Presti is now with OKC making some shrewd moves. The Spurs got their championships by drafting smart. This is just a regular trade that may not actually make the Spurs better, and hurts them cap wise.

jazzfan1971 wrote:Spurs > Rest of league. Best front office in the game.

Yeap, I think that's about right.
I'm starting to feel that nothing major will happen with Utah roster aside from, may be, Boozer silent departure (I hope...).

The Jazz may have very well asked for every trade you all want to happen, and got laughed off the phone.

Spurs just got scarier. Something intrigues me though. They traded Oberto and Thomas away. Who's their frontcourt now? Duncan and Bonner?

Imagine if they sign Sheed for the MLE? I don't even wanna think about it.

Of course, the Spurs are better than the Jazz, but most of that is attributed to the lucky bounces in two lottery draws ten years apart that landed them Robinson and Duncan. The Jazz have one top ten pick in the last 20 years, so maybe it will break right for the Jazz in next year's lottery with the NY pick.

Regarding this trade, does anyone else see the Spurs now as a very, very small team? They have a total of three players over 6'7" now in Duncan, Bonner and Gooden, and neither Bonner or Gooden are more than average role players. If Duncan were to miss 7-10 games or more next year, I don't see the Spurs as much of a threat. Parker, Jefferson and Manu are all fine players, but that team reminds me a little of recent Nets or Warriors teams that are high-scoring machines with no discernible frontcourt presence. Duncan has no insurance or a net behind him. If SA ends up resigning Thomas or Oberto for little to nothing, then I understand this a little more. This seems pretty risky to me..

On the other hand, I was questioning how Chauncey would fit in Denver, so what do I know?

I was wondering about their frontcourt, too, and if this means there's another deal in the works.

Duncan/Bonner/Gooden doesn't really frighten me.

MAybe this means Ian Mahinimi or however it's spelled will get his shot.

The Spurs are still just OK if you ask me. I think this isn't the best move in the world for them. I'll eat crow if they make it to the 2nd round next year with Jefferson, but I don't see this improving their team that much. Makes you wonder if we could have unloaded AK on them though...

Over on the Spurs forum the speculation is that Oberto and Bowen will be waived by Milwaukee and return to SA.

This could also be the year the Spurs convince Tiago Splitter to come over.

Then there's the chance of them signing Rasheed Wallace.

This trade for them reminds me of when they first got Findley. Unfortunately for the Spurs, Duncan is getting old and Manu is always injured. Let's be honest, Duncan isn't nearly the player he once was.

*sigh*...this board is so ridiculous sometimes, and as long as we're using symbols, I like this one:

Fence Post>Holy Toledo



Shall we look at what the Spurs just got? They bailed out on all their financial flexibility for a 29 year old SF who has been injured and clearly on the decline for the last 3 years. We are not getting the guy who shot nearly 50% from the field, picked up 7rpg (for a 10+ rebound rate, which would annualy place him among the best rebounding SFs in the game) and was still an excellent passer generating nearly 4 apg.

That guy would have been a solid addition, indeed. The current model has been a chucking machine, shooting 45, 46 and 44 percent on FGs during each of the last 3 seasons while shooting the ball in quantities normally reserved for a superstar, all the while sporting a dwindling FT rate, posting his career worst FTA/FGA during last season. On top of that, he has passed the ball less and less and gotten increasingly apathetic on the defensive end.

Oh, and he's getting 14m next season and 15m the season after that.

This means the Spurs are at roughly 72m in payroll with only 9 players for next season, making them surefire luxury tax payers, even before they fill out their roster with stray vets. If the Spurs are willing to go into the upper 70s or lower 80s in payroll, this is a very good move, indeed. However, in the past they have maintained an unyeilding aversion to paying it. If this ties their hands from making any further moves, most notably for someone to play in the frontcourt with Duncan and provide adequate defense and team play, they are just spinning their tires.

Its all about distribution of resources here. In the past, the Spurs have had opportunities to make moves like this and always turned them down. Why? Because their model was to build a team around 3 guys who handled the lion's share of the load offensively and then form a defensive-minded group of role players around them. This is a clear departure from that model, and to me looks like an act of desperation. RJ is a good player. He is not a difference maker, though. This is a last ditch attempt at making a run at the big one before the window closes. Unfortunately for them, its too late. Duncan is not the same guy he once was, and Manu can't stay healthy and is declining anyway. The backbone of their suffocating defensive teams, Duncan's interior D and Bowen's perimeter D, is almost entirely erroded. That team will be lucky to win 53 games next year. They will be good, but their window closed a couple of years ago and they just didn't know it.



The Jazz could have made this exact move. And what would the lemming types on this board say? "OMG THIS IS TEH BEST!!!!fTW!!!!" But the reality is this move would have killed the Jazz. Either we move AK for him and make--at best--a lateral move my trading one overpaid, underachieving SF for another, except one with more of an offensive skill set which I'm pretty sure we can all agree is not our problem, or we could have made the move by giving up, say Harpring and Korver (it would have had to be consummated after the opt out deadline, of course). Then we no longer are able to sign Ronnie Brewer to an extension, and we have to give up two of the three big guys (memo, booz and millsap). Now we are getting overpowered inthe paint on a regular basis, getting hammered on the boards and are unable to establish an inside outside game. That team wins between 44 and 48 games if everyone is healthy, and the following summer we are talking about the trade the same way we now talk about the Ostertag contract or AK contract.


If we are the Lakers or the Knicks, we can afford to make moves like this and simply shrug our shoulders when they don't work out, because it doesn't kill us to have a guy making 10m sitting on the bench or playing backup type minutes. As bad as AK's contract has hurt us, he's still clearly a top 3, 4 or 5 guy on our team. He plays starters minutes, and remains among the best players at his position in the league. But he's getting paid like a franchise guy, and isn't producing like it, is all.

Bottom line is we just can't afford to make too many high risk moves here in Utah. It's easy for fans to sit back and see the shiny free agents on the shelves---or draft picks, prospective trade acquisitions, whatever--and say "I want that!" and second guess the hell out of every move the Jazz do or don't make...and then on the odd chance they're right, come back and toot their horn to high heaven to remind everyone.

But I have a question: where is everyone that was so insistent that the Jazz cave and give Mo Pete that extra year and $$ for a full 4 year MLE deal in the summer of 07? WHERE ARE YOU!?!? Because about 75% of this board was up in arms for Mo Pete and were horrified that the Jazz refused that when it would have just taken an extra mil per season and one extra year to get a guy that we needed so badly. I don't see anyone around here standing up to take the blame for being so full of **** on that one. No, its glossed over and we move on to the NEXT reason why the Jazz brass are so afraid to do this and don't have the balls to do that, etc etc. Meanwhile, New Orleans is now desperate to auction off its 2nd or 3rd most valuable asset, an excellent defensive minded center and rebounder on a reasonable contract during the prime of his career, to the highest bidder at 30 or 40 cents on the dollar as a result of spending their MLE on two guys who are of little essential importance to the success of the team.

CAN'T YOU SEE HOW THIS GAME WORKS?

The Jazz, as much as you might like them to be, are not ever going to be a big spender. That means if you want to see a contender take the floor at the ESA, Jazz management have to take extreme care in order to maximize every dollar they spend or this thing will go the other way exceedingly quickly. You don't do that by trading for guys like RJ, Jamal Crawford, Corey Maggette, Jason Richardson or anyone in that vein, because they don't help you win games. They put up stats on bad teams, get paid more than they're worth and make just enough highlight reel plays to convince fans who haven't seen them on a daily basis that they would like to have them on their teams. But the proof is in the pudding. Ask fans of the teams those players have been on if they are upset that their team traded them and they will all tell you the same thing: no.

Now look at the Jazz roster. We won 48 games in a nightmarish season plagued by injuries, with the 5th LOWEST PAYROLL IN THE LEAGUE. The previous year, iirc, we were the 7th lowest, and clearly one of the top 5 teams in the league. Something tells me that the guys running the show should be given a little more credit for what they do than some of the people on this board are willing to dish out. They have hit 4 or 5 legitimate home runs in the personnel department over the last 5 years (Boozer contract, Okur contract, D-Will pick, Millsap pick, possibly Brewer pick) while avoiding a single crippling one (obviously AK's extension looks the worst, but its really not that bad when you look around the league, and the extension for Matty and CJ are mildly bad, though understandable and not really that prohibitive...and the botched choices of Snyder and Humphries are mild disappointments in a league where the average mid first rounder lasts 3 or 4 years).

All in all, I think there's a reason why they are running the show of a perennial playoff team and Holy Toledo is living in his mom's basement eating cupcakes and wearing out the google search engine.

Do not try this at home.