Comparing Jazz vs West power teams

[FJS]

Utah Jazz
At Center
Mehmet Okur, Kosta Koufos, Kyrylo Fessenko, Goran Sutton
At Power Foward
Carlos Boozer, Paul Millsap,
At Small Foward
Andrei Kirilenko, CJ Miles, Matt Harpring??? Wes Matthews or Ronald Dupree
At Shooting Guard
Ronnie Brewer, Kyle Korver,
At Point Guard
Deron Williams, Eric Maynor, Ronnie Price

Los Angeles Lakers
At Center
Andrew Bynum, DJ Mbenga
At Power Foward
Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Josh Powell
At Small Foward
Ron Artest, Luke Walton, Adam Morrison
At Shooting Guard
Kobe Bryant, Sasha Vujacic
At Point Guard
Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown

San Antonio Spurs
At Center
Theo Ratliff, Antonio McDyess
At Power Foward
Tim Duncan, DeJuan Blain, Matt Bonner
At Small Foward
Richard Jefferson, Keith Bogans
At Shooting Guard
Manu Ginobilli, Michael Finley
At Point Guard
Tony Parker, Roger Mason, George Hill

Dallas Mavericks
At Center
Eric Dampier, Jake Voshkul
At Power Foward
Dirk Nowitzky, Drew Gooden, Krhis Humprhies
At Small Foward
Shaw Marion, Tim Thomas, James Singleton
At Shooting Guard
Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Quinton Ross
At Point Guard
Jason Kidd, Juan José Barea

Denver Nuggets
At Center
Nene Hilario, Chris Andersen, Johan Petro
At Power Foward
Kenyon Martin, Malik Allen, Renaldo Balkman
At Small Foward
Carmelo Anthony, Joey Graham
At Shooting Guard
JR Smith, Aaron Afflalo
At Point Guard
Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter

Portlan Trail Blazers
At Center
Joel Przybilla, Greg Oden, Jarron Collins
At Power Foward
LaMarcus Aldridge, Juwan Howard
At Small Foward
Nicolas Batum, Travis Outlaw, Ime Udoka
At Shooting Guard
Brandon Roy, Rudy Fernández, Martell Webster
At Point Guard
Andre Miller, Steve Blake

Phoenix Suns
At Center
Amare Stoudemire, Robin López, Earl Clark
At Power Foward
Channing Frye, Jared Dudley
At Small Foward
Grant Hill, Louis Admunson
At Shooting Guard
Jason Richardson, Leandro Barbosa
At Point Guard
Steve Nash, Dan Dickau

New Orleans Hornets
At Center
Emeka Okafor, Hilton Armstrong, Sean Marks
At Power Foward
David West, Ike Diogu, Darius Songaila
At Small Foward
Peja Stojakovic, James Posey, Julian Wright
At Shooting Guard
Morris Peterson, Devin Brown
At Point Guard
Chris Paul, Darren Collison


How many roster are clearly better than us????
It's curious but Lakers have a great team, but a weak bench, and some of their starters Fisher for example it's a liability.

[FJS]

I will begin:

At Center Position:
We are weaker than Portland, weaker than Spurs and Lakers if the use Gasol and Duncan as C. Hornets have better Centers in defensive aspect.
Our starting C is the best shooter of any team, but always, deffense is our problem.

At Power Foward:
Boozer and Millsap are the best starting/bench duo with Gasol/Odom. Still Boozer have problems in deffense and Millsap is undersized.

Small Foward:
Marion, Artest, Jefferson, Anthony.. not all teams are better than us un SF but they have better players than us (If AK have nothing to say)

Shooting Guard:
We have two different guards in Brewer and Korver and they are a great duo for us. Still something is missing for us. They cannot slow down Bryant, Roy or Ginobillis, and they cannot score like them..

Point Guard:
Deron vs Paul is the fight. Still Parker, Nash and Billups are really great.

I think we have a great roster, but we miss the superstar other teams have. I like our players game individually, but we are missing something.

[outerspacefella]

- PG: Williams belongs with Paul, Parker, Billups, Nash and Kidd
NO REAL EDGE HERE FOR ANY OF THEM

- SG: In my eyes Korver and Miles are our SGs... Bryant, Roy, Ginobili, Howard, Terry, Fernández, even JR SMith belongs in an upper legue here... WE ARE PROBABLY BETTER ONLY THAN THE HORNETS HERE

- SF: Anthony, Artest, Jefferson, Marion, Hill... are better players and by far tougher dudes than Kirilenko/Brewer... WE'RE IN THE SAME LEAGUE HERE WITH PORTLAND AND HEW ORLEANS... AT LEAST UNTIL BATUM GROWS UP A LITTLE BIT MORE

- PF: Boozer/Millsap don't have a clear edge over a healthy K-Mart, while Gasol, Duncan, Nowitzki, Odom are clearly better; THEY CAN BEAT POR AND NO PFs THOUGH... Phoenix is very intriguig here because of athleticism and range (I think Clark can really be huge if Gentry gives him a chance... this rookie mismatch potential can be huge and he shows all the signs of a real combo 4-5 with a good range...)

- C: Jazz really don't hacv a real classic center playing meaningfull minutes, so this is a complicated position to compare. Yet, given Okur's abilities I dare to say the Jazz fare well here.

I'm withholding any prediction for the Jazz season until I watch more preseason games; what I know at this very moment, is that I'm liking more the basketball I'm seeing in some other teams than the Jazz basketball I'm seeing...

What I think is missing is not a superstar; IMHO it's more of a couple guys with the ability to make things happen for themselves, with abilities to crete his own shot and make it, with the ability to attack the zone and get a foul/finish at the rim... that sort of things are missing if you ask me...

No matter what, you can bet I will enjoy the Jazz season!

[GP]

First I'd say one key position to take into consideration is: Coaching

Coaching is an undervalued part of each team success. I'm not going to venture on where Sloan is ranked as far as coaches in the west. It seems you either love him or hate him.

Chemistry is more important that the actual talent of players there are, so while the lakers bench might seem at first to be very weak, they all fill their roles and complement each other. The jazz have a great deal of talent, I think their chemistry/coaching might be the real issue.

[Ming Kong!]

- PG: Williams belongs with Paul, Parker, Billups, Nash and Kidd
NO REAL EDGE HERE FOR ANY OF THEM

- SG: In my eyes Korver and Miles are our SGs... Bryant, Roy, Ginobili, Howard, Terry, Fernández, even JR SMith belongs in an upper legue here... WE ARE PROBABLY BETTER ONLY THAN THE HORNETS HERE

- SF: Anthony, Artest, Jefferson, Marion, Hill... are better players and by far tougher dudes than Kirilenko/Brewer... WE'RE IN THE SAME LEAGUE HERE WITH PORTLAND AND HEW ORLEANS... AT LEAST UNTIL BATUM GROWS UP A LITTLE BIT MORE

- PF: Boozer/Millsap don't have a clear edge over a healthy K-Mart, while Gasol, Duncan, Nowitzki, Odom are clearly better; THEY CAN BEAT POR AND NO PFs THOUGH... Phoenix is very intriguig here because of athleticism and range (I think Clark can really be huge if Gentry gives him a chance... this rookie mismatch potential can be huge and he shows all the signs of a real combo 4-5 with a good range...)

- C: Jazz really don't hacv a real classic center playing meaningfull minutes, so this is a complicated position to compare. Yet, given Okur's abilities I dare to say the Jazz fare well here.

I'm withholding any prediction for the Jazz season until I watch more preseason games; what I know at this very moment, is that I'm liking more the basketball I'm seeing in some other teams than the Jazz basketball I'm seeing...

What I think is missing is not a superstar; IMHO it's more of a couple guys with the ability to make things happen for themselves, with abilities to crete his own shot and make it, with the ability to attack the zone and get a foul/finish at the rim... that sort of things are missing if you ask me...

No matter what, you can bet I will enjoy the Jazz season!

Are you kidding me?

[outerspacefella]

No Ming... I'm not kidding anyone!

- You can probably make a case about Williams dominating Paul at PG a little bit, but that's as far as my eyes can go; this is a point I admit as debatable; but there's no clear or huge edge...
- If we had Harpring playing I would have not mentioned Artest as better than our wings... but Matt is not there anymore...
- AK and Brewer can play very good basketball, but Jefferson, Artest, Marion, Hill are not worst players than them, and Anthony has the clear edge...
- Boozer's game has been decrypted by most good teams a long time ago, so I think Millsap is our best card there right now... and I really like him very very much, but Gasol, Duncan, Nowitzki are the beter crop there without a doubt, and IMHO there's still no reason to give Millsap an adge over K-Mart or Odom (it's at the very a higly debatable thing)
- Okur I think give us something special, so IMHO we are there at center with any of the other teams.

So... not at all... I'm not kidding! I'm really withholding right now any opinion about the Jazz season.

On a side note, Dallas has been playing impressive preseason basketball (BTW... what the hell was Humphries been drinking? is this the same Kris?); I think they can be right there with Lakers, Spurs...

[qman]

PG- Deron/Price vs the field- The Jazz have an advantage at PG every night. Against Billups and Paul it is only slight advantage but against everyone else this is a big plus for us.

SG Brewer/Miles vs the field- We are commonly out classed at this position but hopefully with Brewer and Miles improving a little more it will go from a large disadvantage to a small one.

SF Kirlenko/Korver- We usually hold our own at SF. Hopefully AK has a good season and Korver has a better shooting year.

PF Boozer/ Millsap- here is where we have the biggest advantage night and night out against everyone but the Lakers Gasol/Odom combo.

C Memo/Koufos- During most of the game we give up a little here, but Okur's clutch shooting swings things back into our favor usually by the end.

[outerspacefella]

PG- Deron/Price vs the field- The Jazz have an advantage at PG every night. Against Billups and Paul it is only slight advantage but against everyone else this is a big plus for us.
...

Well, I remember Tony Parker killing us big time (I remember Roger Mason on fire too) and Derek Fisher going under Deron's skin; I don´t remember Williams making it a free ride against Nash or Billups. In fact Paul has been the better matchup for Deron. And Price is an energizer from the bench, but I remember him really running the team well only in a couple games. From what I watched recently I think Maynor will run the team better sooner than later.

[outerspacefella]

...
PF Boozer/ Millsap- here is where we have the biggest advantage night and night out against everyone but the Lakers Gasol/Odom combo....

Against Duncan and Nowitzki have the Jazz had advantage night in night out too?

[StocktonShorts]

All I can say is I'm glad it's a team game and not a series of 1-on-1 matchups.

[DelaneyRudd]

The Jazz continue to be an enigma. Young with lots of potential but no proof they can put it all together.

[erudite23]

Is this the rub?


If you really look at it, the Jazz have been a half step away from "elite" at various points during the last two seasons. Coming down the stretch in 07-08, we were playing as well as any single team in the league. Hollinger's statistical power rankings had us as the #1 team in the league going into the playoffs. Since they use a combination of recent margin of victory along with the full season MOV, adjusted for opponents winning% and home/road splits, I think that is something that should be given some serious weight. Amazingly, during the home stretch of April and into the playoffs, Boozer's game deserted him. To this day, no one has been able to give me a reason for it. For such a consistent player as he's been throughout his career (not prone to wild swings in production, but always between 20 and 25 in PER from a month to month perspective) it was a shocking development and something that no one could have foreseen.

Just imagine if Kobe went from his normal 26-30 PPG on 45-46% numbers to 18-20 PPG on 32% shooting. People would be freaking out wondering WTF was wrong with him and it would be a state of national emergency. You simply hardly ever see a player of All-NBA caliber fall off that much, especially during the playoff run when everyone is so desperate to be at their best. And high scoring guards are much more prone to wild fluctuations in production than efficient scoring bigs.

This really cannot be over stated. In a series which was decided by a few bounces here or there--especially what ended up being the decisive game 5 which came down to a last second Gasol shove in the back on Okur for a FT putback--the difference of your best scorer producing 1.16 points per shot and .98 (iirc) is a HUGE thing. Yet everyone simply remembers it as a routine Laker beatdown that was never close.

Whatever.



Then, last season, we were clearly a team with swagger and confidence, a team that was ready to assume its place among the NBA elite...before an unbelievable swell of injuries derailed the season and killed the teams confidence. At one point Deron Williams actually said the words "it makes you step back and ask yourself if you were ever really on that elite level", to give you an idea of what he was going through. For a team that was at such a fragile state in their development, this was an absolutely killer. It threw the team into disarray. The consequent breakout year that Millsap enjoyed along with Boozer's inability to get healthy (and his ineffectiveness when he came back) threw the status of Carlos' as a foundational peice into question (along with a few boneheaded comments on his part). Deron Williams took half the season to get going. Kyle Korver's shooting, his only true advantage as a player, was destroyed by a pre season wrist injury. AK, after a very hot start that saw him sporting a 20+ PER (only 24 players posted such last year) past the mid season mark, had his season derailed by weird ankle injury that lingered and lingered, despite multiple cortisone injections and eventually required surgery. Memo's dad was ill all season, to the point of death....and once D-Will was out (or limited follwing his return) I believe that both Brewer and Miles were pressing in an effort to make up for his ineffectiveness...and in return killing their own games and the confidence that comes from playing well.

After preaching the "just hang on til Carlos and the boys get back" mantra all season, we watched as the team not only failed to make a surge, but actually went backwards due to Carlos' limited mobility, along with fatigue on the part of his replacement Millsap (who had been ridden hard and put up wet in Carlos' absence), AK's ankle injury, Miles lack of confidence, Brewer's perplexing habit of taking long two point shots (and his inability to hit them)...and horrid, HORRRID backup PG play. Really on Dwill and to a lesser extent Memo were playing anywhere near their potential at the end of the year.


So where does that leave us this year? The answer is your guess is just as good as mine. I see the potential for this team to vault into the 60 win elite this year. Carlos looks to be back to his 22 PER level of play. Millsap's game has taken another step. Memo is in his prime. Korver's wrist is better. Brewer is a young player that should be able to improve upon his previous level of play. DWill is a legend in the making. AK has finally followed his calling and put on enough weight to play as a true 4 man. Koufos looks ready to get some real burn. And Maynor has the poise and savvy to potentially become a real answer as the backup to DWill. All the peices are in line to contend now, and if things don't work out for this season, we have a huge potential chip in NYK's unprotected #1 coming to us. A pick that could net a real, honest to goodness, dominant big man to hold down the middle for the first time in franchise history. So it's a good time to be a Jazz fan.


Still, it bears mentioning as well that all the potential discord from the Millsap/Boozer fiasco could easily derail the season and knock us out of the playoffs entirely. Not just that, but our chronic lack of interior defense and--more perplexing still--our inability or indifference to making 3 point shots (or guarding them) also stand as a real barrier to us taking that step up.

While last season the expectations were that--barring injury--we'd win anywhere from 54 to 60 games and make a real run at the top spot in the West, this year the possibilities are endless. Few people understand just how seriously we were hammered by the injury bug. For any team to lose two top 15 players for what amounts to at least half a season apeice and still post a playoff showing is really impressive. Who thinks that had Gasol missed 44 games and been terrible for the last 20 upon returning or had Kobe missed 15 games and taken half the season to get back to where he is used to being that LA would have won more than 50 games? I certainly don't, and comparing Kobe/Gasol to Deron/Boozer isn't a long shot, imo. And that doesn't count the barrage of OTHER injuries as well.

So where do we go? I see 49 wins as the barometer for success this year. We're a really good team. We are one of the best in the NBA offensive, which is a mixture of maximizing the number of shots as well as converting those shots once you get them. Defensively, we have hovered between 8th and 12th for most of the past two seasons (despite the perception here that we are one of the bottom 10 teams in the league, wtf) and have shown occasional flashes of "getting it" only to be followed by long stretches of mediocrity, ineptitude and apathy.

Percentage wise, I could just as easily see us losing 50 as winning 60. While I think the likelihood is a 50ish win season, I see a strong possibility of us vaulting to contender status or falling prey to the peripheral issues and falling apart sometime in the middle of the year. My personal preference, is we aren't going to be a 55+ team, is for us to tank and get two top 10 (preferably top 5) picks with which to reload. That is a pipedream, of course, but its something to keep you warm at night.


....so, yeah. I just dropped a massive post. Sorry bout the length. I really didn't intend this when I started.

[@ndrew]

You never intend such long posts, but in the end they are massive

[qman]

PG- Deron/Price vs the field- The Jazz have an advantage at PG every night. Against Billups and Paul it is only slight advantage but against everyone else this is a big plus for us.
...

Well, I remember Tony Parker killing us big time (I remember Roger Mason on fire too) and Derek Fisher going under Deron's skin; I don´t remember Williams making it a free ride against Nash or Billups. In fact Paul has been the better matchup for Deron. And Price is an energizer from the bench, but I remember him really running the team well only in a couple games. From what I watched recently I think Maynor will run the team better sooner than later.

I wonder if this was when Deron was still hobbled by his ankle?

Also what is all the Maynor love about. He is yet to shoot about 40% in any kind of NBA game. I understand he is an excellent penetrator and passer against scrubs but he has to be able to score to be effective.

[outerspacefella]

PG- Deron/Price vs the field- The Jazz have an advantage at PG every night. Against Billups and Paul it is only slight advantage but against everyone else this is a big plus for us.
...

Well, I remember Tony Parker killing us big time (I remember Roger Mason on fire too) and Derek Fisher going under Deron's skin; I don´t remember Williams making it a free ride against Nash or Billups. In fact Paul has been the better matchup for Deron. And Price is an energizer from the bench, but I remember him really running the team well only in a couple games. From what I watched recently I think Maynor will run the team better sooner than later.

I wonder if this was when Deron was still hobbled by his ankle?

Also what is all the Maynor love about. He is yet to shoot about 40% in any kind of NBA game. I understand he is an excellent penetrator and passer against scrubs but he has to be able to score to be effective.

I hope you're right and a healthy Wiliams end up having a breakout superstar season dominating the other PGs out there.

The Maynor thing is not about love... it's just Maynor seems to have a better understanding of the PG position than Price... of course he will have to shoot the basketball and finish penetrations better... and he has yet to prove he can mantain his PG skills against the real dudes...

[PETEY PABLO]

Hello every one . I apologize for dropping in on your discussion but as a fellow Clippers fan, I would like to make a simple case for their respective roster.

Clippers have what I feel is a formidable group of bigs and smalls

Center - Chris Kaman 7' 265 lbs, Marcus Camby 6'11" 230 lbs , DeAndre Jordan 7 ' 260

Power forward - Blake Griffin 6'10" 255LBS , Craig Smith 6'7" 265 and 3rd string Brian Skinner

Small forward - Al Thornton 6'8" 225, Rasual Butler 6'7" , Ricky Davis 6'6", Steve Novak 6'10"

Shooting Guard - Eric Gordon 6'3" 215, Rasual Butler,Ricky Davis, Steve Novak

Point Guard - Baron Davis 6'4" 215 lbs , Sebastian Telfair 6'0" , Mardy Collins 6'5"

[FJS]

It's not a bad roster individually, but they don't use to play as a team.

[Soul Patch]

Hello every one . I apologize for dropping in on your discussion but as a fellow Clippers fan, I would like to make a simple case for their respective roster.

Clippers have what I feel is a formidable group of bigs and smalls

Center - Chris Kaman 7' 265 lbs, Marcus Camby 6'11" 230 lbs , DeAndre Jordan 7 ' 260

Power forward - Blake Griffin 6'10" 255LBS , Craig Smith 6'7" 265 and 3rd string Brian Skinner

Small forward - Al Thornton 6'8" 225, Rasual Butler 6'7" , Ricky Davis 6'6", Steve Novak 6'10"

Shooting Guard - Eric Gordon 6'3" 215, Rasual Butler,Ricky Davis, Steve Novak

Point Guard - Baron Davis 6'4" 215 lbs , Sebastian Telfair 6'0" , Mardy Collins 6'5"

But you're the Clippers.

[PETEY PABLO]

" They're the Clippers " ha ha . Good stuff. True that, But this season should mark the begining of a new era. Although it is only pre season at the moment , they are 3-1 , Spurs,Trailblazers and Warriors fell to LA so far. The defense is Much better, the depth is there and the offense is flowing.

Not here to be a homer ( actually I am ) but all I am saying is keep an eye on this team.
When the Lakers vs Jazz play off series was going on recently, I was cheering for Utah. I live here in LA , and while watching one of the games at a hooters with a buddy, I was the only one clapping among a sea of Lakers fans.

Deron Williams is an awsome PG. Boozer is very good but at times does not seem like a consistent All Star type. The Jazz game is well structured and they are very sound on defense.

I am looking forward to a good pre-season game Between Utah and LA next week. Cheers!

[Soul Patch]

I expect good things from the Clippers but nothing comes to fruition. You need to get rid of Dunleavy and get some one that can make them play as team. Maybe Avery Johnson.