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I know how much of a lightning rod he's been in the past, and to some extent its much deserved, but it kind of pisses me off how everyone has been avoiding talking about how great he's looked thus far. He's scoring at the same prodigious rate he did before last year's injury, his rebounding is back to its incredible rate of the past as well, and he has been trying much harder on defense, in line with his very vocal approach to improving that part of his game this season. No one could have imagined things going this well before the team came together, but at this point there doesn't seem to be any negative tension from his situation, and he looks primed for an absolute monster season. He should get credit for coming in and taking such a professional approach and getting his game together. He looks as good or better than he ever has.

erudite23 wrote:He should get credit for coming in and taking such a professional approach and getting his game together.

So Boozer should get credit for waiting until the final year of his 6 year contract to do what he is paid 12 million dollars a year to do?
Anybody who expected otherwise is outside their mind! I don't think he deserves credit as much as a simple question of "why now?". Its not like there was some big reveal last year that showed some flaw in Boozer's D. It's always sucked. Its just that now he is notorious for letting anyone score on him. Note Linas Kleiza's 30+ point night, who isn't even in the NBA anymore.

Did you only look at the stats for the past 2 games or something? He has looked terrible so far with the exception of his numbers in the last 2 games. Millsap has been much more solid throughout the pre-season thus far. I think your crazy....

BTW I have a theory that Boozer will play well on the road and terrible at home for the year.

I hope he beasts like crazy until we trade him.

Boozer is a allstar caliber PF, simple as that. Does he have problems with injuries? Yes. Does he play great defense? No. That doesn't change the fact that he IS our best option at PF. So its nice to see Boozer having a good start, hopefully he has a great year and stays injury free.

nothing new, im used to it after all these years. it's not even november yet, i've learned.

QuantumMacgyver wrote:

erudite23 wrote:He should get credit for coming in and taking such a professional approach and getting his game together.

So Boozer should get credit for waiting until the final year of his 6 year contract to do what he is paid 12 million dollars a year to do?
Anybody who expected otherwise is outside their mind! I don't think he deserves credit as much as a simple question of "why now?". Its not like there was some big reveal last year that showed some flaw in Boozer's D. It's always sucked. Its just that now he is notorious for letting anyone score on him. Note Linas Kleiza's 30+ point night, who isn't even in the NBA anymore.

Um....no? Let's get real here. All told, if we never get another single game out of him, that 6yr 68m deal was a bargain for this team. He may have missed almost 100 games since he's been here, but when he's played he's given us max contract worthy production nearly every single night. Professional and consistent to the extreme in his approach. So just stop with the "waited until the last year of his contract" stuff, its shameful and its a downright damn lie.


As for him not playing well until the last two games...have you watched at all? He's been terrific every time I've seen him play, and his numbers have been very strong in all but one or two of the games. He's looked great and I have noticed the increased activity on defense. If he can provide a monster 1st half of the year we could be looking at a real windfall in return for him come the trade deadline.

My biggest problem with Boozer is not that he cant play, as he is one of the best post up PF in the league. His defense is terrible but you can live with it. The biggest problem I have with Boozer is that he doesnt want to be here now and definitely not at the end of the year. So, you Boozer fans want to keep him to just have him leave for nothing at end of the year. I would be ok with that if the Jazz were a championship contender, but they are not mainly because of their lack of defense. Keeping Boozer might allow the Jazz to win 52-53 games instead of 48-50 games. Is that worth 12 million dollars, especially sense he is gone at end of year.

Keeping Boozer also stunts the growth of our future starter at PF, Millsap, as well as take time away from Kosta. I would also like to see AK-47 get minutes at PF to improve the Jazz interior defense which is more likely if Boozer is gone. So, I see little benefit in keeping Boozer and prefer some young player and cap space relief instead.

HolyToledo wrote: So, you Boozer fans want to keep him to just have him leave for nothing at end of the year.

Isn't this what most fans wanted to happen before he opted in? Had he opted out, you would have gotten just that. Nothing. I doubt the Jazz would have done a S&T with him.

Letting Boozer go at the end of the season won't be for nothing. The Jazz will have $12 million off of the books. The NBA is a business and letting Boozer go at the end of the year would be a wise business decision.

IMHO Boozer has shown each year he's been here to be a great player at the start of regular seasons, in most regards. He steadily declines as the season wears on....and our team usually struggles down the stretch. There's maybe and exception one year...but overall that's been Boozer's stories. That, and injuries....

Ya a monster first half like he had against Portland...2 points...wow...he is a monster. No he has been terrible. I have been to all the home games and to the open scrimmage and he looked horrible, nothing like I was hoping for. Even the NBA TV guys are saying he is playing with no heart or effort. Boozer = fail.

I am glad he appears to be committed to be a part of the team. Hopefully this being a definite contract year he plays well all season until the Jazz trade him, or up until the playoffs.

erudite23 wrote:Um....no? Let's get real here. All told, if we never get another single game out of him, that 6yr 68m deal was a bargain for this team. He may have missed almost 100 games since he's been here, but when he's played he's given us max contract worthy production nearly every single night. Professional and consistent to the extreme in his approach. So just stop with the "waited until the last year of his contract" stuff, its shameful and its a downright damn lie.

WTF are you talking about? We are talking about the same Carlos Boozer right? Professional to the extreme?!!!!!! Are you foreign? Because if English is your second language I'll forgive the blatant misuse of the term. I am honestly baffled... and if you mean putting up 20 and allowing your man to put up 30 as "max contract worthy production" then yes, you are absolutely right.

Boozer is the complete opposite of professional. He's proven it over and over throughout his career. The sad thing is that I have always been a Boozer supporter up until the "I'm getting a raise" debacle. The guy is a selfish money hound. He is probably the most efficient offensive low post PF in the league at the moment but that doesn't change the fact that he has never, EVER made any effort on D for the Jazz, until the PRESEASON this year.

If you think this is a "downright damn lie" then show us the proof. When was it that Boozer was a good defender? Or even made a realistic effort to play D? You know what the answer to this question is... His last year in Cleveland, which was, oh thats right, a contract year. Hmmmm, must just be a coincidence. My bad. I apologize Boozer. Please forgive me. You are the the definition of professional with your radio interviews talking about how you'd love to play for this team or that team while you opted to play for another team. Professional to the exxxtreme! I wish the Tim Duncans, David Robinsons and John Stocktons could've taken a page out of Boozer's book and learned how to be more professional. Because they were professional but only to about the... expert level. Nowhere close to being extreme in their professionalism.

Boozer has stuck his foot in his mouth more times then I'd like to admit, but it's never bled onto the court which is a real testament. How many players can you say that about?

He could easily turn hismself into a Steven Jackson like player if he wanted to and intentionally foul out of games to prove a point and to show that he doesn't want to be here, but he always shows up to training camp, apparently works hard in practice and when he is on the floor he gives you what he can.

Has he milked injuries? Maybe, I can't prove it either way, but when he suits up he plays hard.

erudite23 wrote:I know how much of a lightning rod he's been in the past, and to some extent its much deserved, but it kind of pisses me off how everyone has been avoiding talking about how great he's looked thus far. He's scoring at the same prodigious rate he did before last year's injury, his rebounding is back to its incredible rate of the past as well, and he has been trying much harder on defense, in line with his very vocal approach to improving that part of his game this season. No one could have imagined things going this well before the team came together, but at this point there doesn't seem to be any negative tension from his situation, and he looks primed for an absolute monster season. He should get credit for coming in and taking such a professional approach and getting his game together. He looks as good or better than he ever has.

What?
Dang I usually agree with you, you generally bring common sense and logic to the board.

But this time I have to shake my head and wonder if maybe you were wasted when you posted this, or you are just intentionally stirring the pot???

He may have missed almost 100 games since he's been here

Unless my memory is completely whacked, I think that statement is outright crap.
I'm thinking that he has missed a few more than 100??? want to look it up or should I?

Since Boozer's time in Utah, he has played in 65% of the games. When he plays, he does play hard- on one end of the court, which amounts to half his minutes played. So, since signing his $68 M contract, he has put forth real, professional effort on the floor about 35% of the time. One can't fault him for suffering injuries, yet at the same time I fail to see how he has earned his money. Look at it this way- would the Jazz have signed Boozer to that contract knowing beforehand exactly what they would have gotten out of him over the course of six seasons?

As far as this season is concerned, its far too early to draw any meaningful conclusions- he's looked good in a couple of games, but will his defense be a revelation? I really hope so, and I'll be happy to acknowledge it if that's the case. Many on this board however, will resist praising Booz even if he's an MVP candidate. It should be remembered the part he has played in creating that negative sentiment.

I agree Boozer took a decent approach and attitude being back with the team.
It doesn't mean a thing though....
The real issue is the same as ever: can he stay healthy and stand on his own against Duncan, Gasol, Nowitzki, Stoudemire et all... in the end that's all that matters...
If he win that battles the fan base will be with him.
Of course if he shows himself unable to win at his position on a consistent basis... well... I don't think his approach or attitude will help his case...
As for playing hard, there'a s lot of dudes playing hard out there... but it doesn't matter how hard you play if you don't win your battles on the court. I'd be ok with my frontncourt playing soft if based solely on talent they beat the opposing frontcourt by 10 or 15 points every night...

idajazz wrote:

erudite23 wrote:I know how much of a lightning rod he's been in the past, and to some extent its much deserved, but it kind of pisses me off how everyone has been avoiding talking about how great he's looked thus far. He's scoring at the same prodigious rate he did before last year's injury, his rebounding is back to its incredible rate of the past as well, and he has been trying much harder on defense, in line with his very vocal approach to improving that part of his game this season. No one could have imagined things going this well before the team came together, but at this point there doesn't seem to be any negative tension from his situation, and he looks primed for an absolute monster season. He should get credit for coming in and taking such a professional approach and getting his game together. He looks as good or better than he ever has.

What?
Dang I usually agree with you, you generally bring common sense and logic to the board.

But this time I have to shake my head and wonder if maybe you were wasted when you posted this, or you are just intentionally stirring the pot???

He may have missed almost 100 games since he's been here

Unless my memory is completely whacked, I think that statement is outright crap.
I'm thinking that he has missed a few more than 100??? want to look it up or should I?

He missed 44 last year, one the year before, 7 the year before that, and i seem to recall him missing 60 something in the first two years....so, yes, that would be over 100. Just threw a number out there, wasn't really focusing too much on that part of it.

QuantumMacgyver wrote:

erudite23 wrote:Um....no? Let's get real here. All told, if we never get another single game out of him, that 6yr 68m deal was a bargain for this team. He may have missed almost 100 games since he's been here, but when he's played he's given us max contract worthy production nearly every single night. Professional and consistent to the extreme in his approach. So just stop with the "waited until the last year of his contract" stuff, its shameful and its a downright damn lie.

WTF are you talking about? We are talking about the same Carlos Boozer right? Professional to the extreme?!!!!!! Are you foreign? Because if English is your second language I'll forgive the blatant misuse of the term. I am honestly baffled... and if you mean putting up 20 and allowing your man to put up 30 as "max contract worthy production" then yes, you are absolutely right.

Boozer is the complete opposite of professional. He's proven it over and over throughout his career. The sad thing is that I have always been a Boozer supporter up until the "I'm getting a raise" debacle. The guy is a selfish money hound. He is probably the most efficient offensive low post PF in the league at the moment but that doesn't change the fact that he has never, EVER made any effort on D for the Jazz, until the PRESEASON this year.

If you think this is a "downright damn lie" then show us the proof. When was it that Boozer was a good defender? Or even made a realistic effort to play D? You know what the answer to this question is... His last year in Cleveland, which was, oh thats right, a contract year. Hmmmm, must just be a coincidence. My bad. I apologize Boozer. Please forgive me. You are the the definition of professional with your radio interviews talking about how you'd love to play for this team or that team while you opted to play for another team. Professional to the exxxtreme! I wish the Tim Duncans, David Robinsons and John Stocktons could've taken a page out of Boozer's book and learned how to be more professional. Because they were professional but only to about the... expert level. Nowhere close to being extreme in their professionalism.

Boozer has said some stupid ish off the court, but ON the court he has been very professional and has come to play every night in which he's worn a Jazz uni. These complaints about his defense has no factual basis, but come mainly from the perception that he doesn't hustle--mainly on HELP D, btw--and thus are only partially true. Boozer, with the notable exception of last year after he was coming back from injury, has always been just an average defender. He does some thing very well, actually. He anchors his post position as well as any PF in the league, you never see him get backed down by an opposing big man. He does an exceptional job of poking the ball out on the way up, and generally uses his hands very well, he's above average in man-to-man defense, although he can certainly be had by smaller, quicker PFs who can take him out on the perimeter, and he gets through/around cross screens as well as any big in the league. Oh, and lets not forget his defensive rebounding, which is the best in the NBA for any PF and which he does at an All-Time level, that is a part of defense as well, and the way the Jazz struggled to defensive rebound once he went down with injury should tell you something about his value to the team.

All that said, he is a very, very bad help defender. In the past he hasn't talked well on that end, and is so bad at getting his body in front of a penetrating guard that it is at times laughable to watch. This is mainly where his lack of hustle shows up and where a big part of the "Boozer doesn't play D" rhetoric comes from. It's also the main reason why Utah has posted top 8 finishes in PER AGAINST at the PF position for the last 3 consecutive years, which flies directly in the face of all this "yeah, he'll get you 20 a night but his guy is getting 30" bull ****. He doesn't block shots, or alter them, and only does a mediocre job of challenging jump shooters. But the only real glaring problem with his D has been his help D....which for a big is a huge deal, I'll admit.

You need to learn to differentiate between your rabid feelings as a fan and what actually happens with your players in the realm of reality. If you want a good peice of commentary on Boozer, just take Jerry's opinion. We all know coach doesn't tolerate players who aren't prepared, who don't give good effort, and who aren't dedicated to their craft. We've seen him at odds with a ton of players in his years here over this very thing. If there was any truth to Carlos being unprofessional and lackadaisical as a basketball player, it would come out in his relationship with Sloan. Jerry, though, has never done anything but support and praise Carlos for his work ethic and commitment to being the best player he can be. That should tell you all you need to know.

erudite23 wrote:..... Jerry, though, has never done anything but support and praise Carlos for his work ethic and commitment to being the best player he can be. That should tell you all you need to know.

I have to admit this is a huge point in favor of Boozer. Coach has been there backing him up no matter what, and has even put Boozer several times in the same breath with Malone. It should tell us something.
I won't be liking Boozer any time soon, but I will be ok as long as he win his battles on court on a ocnsistent basis.