If you could blow up the nucleus, would you?

3960HOOD · Post #1 » by **3960HOOD** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:09 pm

If you were KOC and you could get rid of let's say Okur, Millsap and AK for expiring contracts and players that wouldn't make a difference this season, would you? Would you be willing to sacrifice the current season, have two potential lottery picks and be well under the cap next season if you had it your way?

Post #2 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:15 pm

If I were doing that I'm not sure I'd get rid of Millsap. He has a very reasonable contract after this year. Having said that, if you're blowing up the team the only guy who is off the table is Deron Williams.

outerspacefella · Post #3 » by **outerspacefella** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:48 pm

Not Millsap yet.
I'd drop Kirilenko/Okur... and if Rockets say yes I'd bring in McGrady.... that's 50+M out of the books for next summer....
I'll say it again.... 50+M out of the books....

seejaydeja · Post #4 » by **seejaydeja** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:00 pm

AK/Okur/Brew are all more than expendable. Booz is gone after the season so I don't mind if he goes either. Give up sap if the price is right, but DWill is untouchable.

JDubJazz · Post #5 » by **JDubJazz** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:01 pm

It seems readily apparent that this team's core is not championship caliber, so I'm not opposed to blowing it up, as long as there is a plan beyond "lots of $$$ for free agents." The team needs to be restructured through trades and the draft, not through free agency.

Post #6 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:33 pm

hoops4life · Post #7 » by **hoops4life** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:29 pm

If the deal is right, sure I wouldn't mind it. I wouldn't even say Dwill is untouchable for the right kind of deal. What point guard-centric team was the last one to win a championship? Like others said, no if the plan is just to have a ton of money.

Montanajazz · Post #8 » by **Montanajazz** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:46 pm

Yes do it! Send Okur and Kirlinko for McGrady. Let Korver and Mcgrady go at the end of the year . re-sign Boozer and Brewer and Mathews and fes.

Williams Price
Mathews
Miles Brewer
Boozer Milsap
Fes Koufus

Ny #1 + # for 2 free agents This is not a complete blow-up, but it gets bulky contracts and players who gve hit their peak off the team.

majortripps69 · Post #9 » by **majortripps69** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:50 pm

Montanajazz wrote:Yes do it! Send Okur and Kirlinko for McGrady. Let Korver and Mcgrady go at the end of the year . re-sign Boozer and Brewer and Mathews and fes.

Williams Price
Mathews
Miles Brewer
Boozer Milsap
Fes Koufus

Ny #1 + # for 2 free agents This is not a complete blow-up, but it gets bulky contracts and players who gve hit their peak off the team.

We pretty much field a lineup like that at times and it doesn't work. Matthews is a nice young talent, but he's hit the proverbial rookie wall. He has had one good game out of his last 5-6. We need production at the 1, 2 and 4 spots. We can live with role players at the 3 and 5. If we had a good shooting guard and a center that could look like he played defense, we would be pretty formidable. To blow things up, I don't think we need to. We just need to re-evaluate what works and what doesn't on this team. As it stands now, we are a low playoff seed team with no shot of making it out of the first round. That's being realistic.

outerspacefella · Post #10 » by **outerspacefella** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:34 pm

By the end of this season:

- Jazz get under the cap with Williams, Price, Miles, Brewer (if resigned), Matthews, Boozer, Millsap, Fesenko, Koufos. They still can work out trades or take contracts from other teams (because they will be under the cap) and even get great flexibility to go into multiteam trades if they appear.

- They get NYK pick (probably even Jazz own pick if the thing does not work out).

- They shake 65-66M off the books and get money space to sign people

Now... if I'm not crazy, thats just the dream of an NBA front office... lots of flexibility, cap space, Williams/Boozer/Millsap in... and you get all of it going out of from nightmare money situation and an expensive roster that will not make the cut basketball wise...

Give me a better scenario and I will agree with it... but I bet my pet right now KOC is having a nice chat with Rockets front office...

Post #11 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:47 am

^^^ If you're going to blow up the team I can't think of a better option than trading AK/Memo to Houston for T-Mac.

jazzrock · Post #12 » by **jazzrock** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:57 am

outerspacefella wrote:Not Millsap yet.
I'd drop Kirilenko/Okur... and if Rockets say yes I'd bring in McGrady.... that's 50+M out of the books for next summer....
I'll say it again.... 50+M out of the books....

Your math is wrong. If we trade Kiri/Okur and their ~$25MM contracts, we will still bring back Tmac and his $23MM. We only have $23MM off the books with a trade like that. However, if you include the expirings of Boozer (~$13MM) and Korver (~$5MM), that puts us at $41MM and we are probably under the salary cap and can become a player for one guy in the 2010 free agent market. Plus if NY stops winning games and we end up with a high draft pic, we could have a pretty friggin good team next year.

What about Kiri/Okur/Brewer for McGrady/Battier?

Post #13 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:17 am

jazzrock wrote:
outerspacefella wrote:Not Millsap yet.
I'd drop Kirilenko/Okur... and if Rockets say yes I'd bring in McGrady.... that's 50+M out of the books for next summer....
I'll say it again.... 50+M out of the books....

Your math is wrong. If we trade Kiri/Okur and their ~$25MM contracts, we will still bring back Tmac and his $23MM. We only have $23MM off the books with a trade like that. However, if you include the expirings of Boozer (~$13MM) and Korver (~$5MM), that puts us at $41MM and we are probably under the salary cap and can become a player for one guy in the 2010 free agent market. Plus if NY stops winning games and we end up with a high draft pic, we could have a pretty friggin good team next year.

What about Kiri/Okur/Brewer for McGrady/Battier?

AK and Memo are owed money for more than just this year.

outerspacefella · Post #14 » by **outerspacefella** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:10 am

jazzrock wrote:
outerspacefella wrote:Not Millsap yet.
I'd drop Kirilenko/Okur... and if Rockets say yes I'd bring in McGrady.... that's 50+M out of the books for next summer....
I'll say it again.... 50+M out of the books....

Your math is wrong. If we trade Kiri/Okur and their ~$25MM contracts, we will still bring back Tmac and his $23MM. We only have $23MM off the books with a trade like that. However, if you include the expirings of Boozer (~$13MM) and Korver (~$5MM), that puts us at $41MM and we are probably under the salary cap and can become a player for one guy in the 2010 free agent market. Plus if NY stops winning games and we end up with a high draft pic, we could have a pretty friggin good team next year.

What about Kiri/Okur/Brewer for McGrady/Battier?

Nothing wrong. I was talkin 50+M off by next summer.

outerspacefella · Post #15 » by **outerspacefella** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:11 am

DelaneyRudd wrote:AK and Memo are owed money for more than just this year.

That's why you erase 50+M for next season, and 10M more for 2011-12.

carrottop12 · Post #16 » by **carrottop12** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:12 am

Okur is on the top of my hit list right now. He's downright awful, and making 10 mil a year and he's only in the first year of his deal... Yikes.

drivewayball · Post #17 » by **drivewayball** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:58 pm

The Jazz have already blown up the nucleus of the team. Boozer was informed that he was not in the Jazz plans after this season. The nucleus was DWill and Boozer.

Management of the Jazz has been so bad that the trade assets are extremely limited. However, I think you move Kirilenko, Okur, and Korver's expiring for sure, if you can. But, then again, this is just foolish talk on my part, as the Jazz just made a new commitment to Mehmet Okur a few months ago. You only move DWill if you get C. Paul or a package like D. Rose and J. Noah in return.

The one available player I would grab in a second in one of these "deals" is Maggette from GS. His productivity numbers just continue to climb and would really give the Jazz what they are lacking ... that wing that can attack the rim at will.

HolyToledo · Post #18 » by **HolyToledo** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:15 pm

It does not matter what the Jazz do! As long as Sloan is head coach, they cant win it all. If SLoan coached the Lakers they would not have won it last year. He is simply a bad leader and coach.

So blow up the team??? If Sloan is the coach, then at least we save the owner some money!!

rick333 · Post #19 » by **rick333** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:24 pm

HolyToledo wrote:It does not matter what the Jazz do! As long as Sloan is head coach, they cant win it all. If SLoan coached the Lakers they would not have won it last year. He is simply a bad leader and coach.

So blow up the team??? If Sloan is the coach, then at least we save the owner some money!!

You're kidding right? Hell I could have coached the Lakers to a championship last season, let alone a HOF coach in Sloan.

erudite23 · Post #20 » by **erudite23** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:33 am

Holy Toledo is the resident (fill in the blank). Don't listen to anything he says.

As for blowing up the nucleus....what IS our nucleus? Answer me that question and I'll answer you back. Right now, this team has no nucleus. Boozer's status as maybe/maybe not has thrown everything out of sorts. Is he staying? If so, we need to cement him and Deron as the two guys we're building around and then marshal all our assets to take advantage of their strengths and hedge their weaknesses. That means getting a wing that his a very good-to-great shooter who can also do some creating. That means finding a guy on the interior that can help mask Boozer's deficiencies and erase some mistakes from the perimeter guys as well. Okur's shooting is/was nice, but he is clearly the A1 problem on this team. After him, we need to either move or find a cure for what is ailing Ronnie Brewer. Both have been awful this year. We need to find a real wing player that can do the things wings have to do in the NBA, and quit **** masquerading these slashers and unconventional types out there. Its a **** joke.

Millsap is part of the solution. He's a really good player, but more importantly, he's the right TYPE of player. If Boozer isn't in the plans, he's a nice 4 to go to bat with. We have plenty of assets. There isn't a player on our team that no one will touch. Even Okur, in his reduced state and with 21m left on his deal after this season, is a guy that other teams would want around. We need to retool. This year has been so disheartening, as its the first year since 2002 that I've felt like we had no direction, that we were just floating down the river with no plan and no one at the helm. Its a bad feeling.

Do we need to blow up the nucleus? No. We need to retool and get pieces that fit together more coherently. As bad as its been out there at times, we aren't really that far away.