Trade Proposal from Pistons fan...

bstein14 · Post #1 » by **bstein14** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:09 pm

Detroit trades: RIP($11.625) + Prince($10.324)
TOTAL SALARY($21.949)

Detroit receives: Ak47($16.425) + Korver($5.26) + Miles($3.7) + Jazz 2010 First(or NY Pick)
TOTAL SALARY($25.358)
Thoughts?

Saves Jazz a few million in tax and gives them a very solid 2/3 rotation on the wings wtih RIP/Prince/Brewer.

Post #2 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:12 pm

NO! You can't have Harpring. I luvs him.

Post #3 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:31 pm

Can you give us an honest opinion of where you think Rip's game will be two years from now? I've really disliked any proposed Rip Hamilton trade in the past because of his hefty and lengthy contract.

Basketball-wise I think he'd be a great fit for this team. In the past every Rip deal that was proposed involved Boozer. If the Jazz org is really trying to make one last push with this team then adding Rip and Tayshaun at the cost of AK, CJ and Korver, while also getting under the tax threshold may be a very attractive option.

jazzrock · Post #4 » by **jazzrock** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:35 am

Remember when we traded for that old guy from Golden State and he had like 4 years and $25mm left on his contract and everyone was up in arms cuz we didnt want some old guy that would be past his prime by the time this contract ended and would take minutes away from Deron......... Yeah, that worked out ok.

This is exactly what we need. We need guys who know how to win. I dont care if they are 52 years old if they can bring some leadership and cohesiveness to this locker room. And we are gonna pay another year for AK's crap anyways. Whats the big deal adding another year with Rip? Two guys that are proven winners for AK's and CJ's inconsistency. And I guess to beef up the trade we have to throw in Korver's expiring and the late lottery pick of NY........

HELL YA I DO THIS. No way Pistons do it though.

bstein14 · Post #5 » by **bstein14** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:53 am

Most Pistons fans would say no to this I believe... but if Brewer/Miles were switched I'd think 85%+ would do this deal.

I'm on the fence personally... I think Detroit gets less but that AK47 would be a better fit and free up room for BG to get more minutes.

carrottop12 · Post #6 » by **carrottop12** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:03 am

Jazz lose 3 rotational players, their best shooter, and a top 10 draft pick for two guys that have proven nothing when not playing next to Chauncey Billups?

Post #7 » by **StocktonShorts** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:07 am

bstein14 wrote:Most Pistons fans would say no to this I believe... but if Brewer/Miles were switched I'd think 85%+ would do this deal.

If the Jazz do this they're probably not re-signing Brewer anyway...

Post #8 » by **StocktonShorts** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:09 am

Bat wrote:Jazz lose 3 rotational players, their best shooter, and a top 10 draft pick for two guys that have proven nothing when not playing next to Chauncey Billups?

Korver isn't currently a rotation player, is doubtful to be brought back after this season and has had nagging injuries. Miles SHOULDN'T be a rotation player.

I agree there's no way this deal should touch that NY pick.

carrottop12 · Post #9 » by **carrottop12** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:15 am

Either Korver or Miles have to be in the rotation, and both are capable 15-20 minute a game players. Korver has looked good since his return and is starting to look like he might actually have a really solid place on this team. Now that he looks to completely understand the offense he's playing much better. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him return next season.

I like both Rip and Tayshaun's game, but I wouldn't give up AK, two bench players and a top 10 pick for them and their huge contracts.

babyjax13 · Post #10 » by **babyjax13** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:24 am

Detroit needs to dump their veterens for some young talent and cap space. I think that fair value is Miles+Korver+filler for Hamilton. And while your at it, can we please get Jerebko???? Please???? We'll send you Brewer too....

CJ Miles
Kyle Korver
Ronnie Brewer

FOR

Richard Hamilton
Jonas Jerebko

Depth chart:

Memo/Boozer
Boozer/Millsap
AK/Jerebko
Hamilton/Mathews
Deron/Price

ocellatus921 · Post #11 » by **ocellatus921** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:59 am

How about this one. Prince, Wilcox & future 1st round pick(Top 14 protected) to the Jazz for Kirilenko & their 1st round pick(New York).

HammerDunk · Post #12 » by **HammerDunk** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:17 am

I would do either trade you have proposed.

blackham9258 · Post #13 » by **blackham9258** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:19 am

Jazz will never give up a pick in any scenario involving Rip. His is possibly the most toxic contract in the NBA when you consider every team knows he is a) coming off an injury b) will be 35 when the contract ends c) no team offers anything but shorter term junk when they know you have to get rid of someone....everyone know you just signed Ben... and there will be no rush to take off your hands an aging SG who is slight of build... and definately overpaid. d) the new CBA will make his contract even more toxic after next season e) Did I mention he is owed 3 years and $38 million?

It is a league maxim... if they know you need to get rid of guy because your guy is trouble (Gilbert Arenas, Ron Artest back in the day), injured, overpaid, or your team needs to cut payroll and your guy is in the last year of his deal and won't be resigned, or your player is duplicative to another player on your roster (Hamilton, Millsap/Boozer).......Team just don't offer fair value.

I would do:

Okur/AK/Miles for Prince/Hamilton/Your pick

Boozer/AK/Miles/Koufos for Prince/Hamilton/Your Pick and then we send Prince to LAC for Camby and their Pick.

Williams, Price
Hamilton, Mathews
Brewer, Korver
Boozer, Millsap
Camby, Fesenko

NY's, Det's, LAC's first round picks.

drivewayball · Post #14 » by **drivewayball** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:53 am

Trade discussions about Detroit and Utah really should cease. There is no match there.

carrottop12 · Post #15 » by **carrottop12** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:32 am

Why do you say that?

One team is extremely young and needs veterans with playoff experience.

One team is extremely old and needs to get younger.

Both teams play similar basketball that value the same types of players. Both have large contracts that are hard to trade with other teams. Both are teams that aren't quite in the basement of their conferences but are only a few pieces away from having very solid competitive cores.

They actually seem like a perfect match to me. :dontknow:

HammerDunk · Post #16 » by **HammerDunk** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:46 pm

If you look at only the negatives of any trade, they will all look terrible.

TheDB2 · Post #17 » by **TheDB2** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:38 pm

jazzrock wrote:Remember when we traded for that old guy from Golden State and he had like 4 years and $25mm left on his contract and everyone was up in arms cuz we didnt want some old guy that would be past his prime by the time this contract ended and would take minutes away from Deron......... Yeah, that worked out ok.

This is exactly what we need. We need guys who know how to win. I dont care if they are 52 years old if they can bring some leadership and cohesiveness to this locker room. And we are gonna pay another year for AK's crap anyways. Whats the big deal adding another year with Rip? Two guys that are proven winners for AK's and CJ's inconsistency. And I guess to beef up the trade we have to throw in Korver's expiring and the late lottery pick of NY........

HELL YA I DO THIS. No way Pistons do it though.

Yeah that trade did work out but only because by a miracle we were able to get out of his contract. He played well the one year he was here but he would still be here right now making 7 million dollars a year at his current production, 7 points and lowest % he has ever shot. No thanks. We are in luxury tax hell now just imagine if he was still here. It was good for the Jazz in the long run to get out from under that contract.

And thats exactly what would happen in 3 years with RIP but worse cuz he gets paid even more. Thanks but no thanks to any RIP deals.

jazzrock · Post #18 » by **jazzrock** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:44 pm

TheDB2 wrote:Yeah that trade did work out but only because by a miracle we were able to get out of his contract. He played well the one year he was here but he would still be here right now making 7 million dollars a year at his current production, 7 points and lowest % he has ever shot. No thanks. We are in luxury tax hell now just imagine if he was still here. It was good for the Jazz in the long run to get out from under that contract.

And thats exactly what would happen in 3 years with RIP but worse cuz he gets paid even more. Thanks but no thanks to any RIP deals.

And what have we done since he has been gone? And what have the Lakers done since he got there? Yeah sure they got Pau too. But I guarantee, every single person on the Lakers and in that organization will say that Fisher has helped out a ton to get where they are. All I am saying is that if we have the chance to get proven winners on our team that can help provide some leadership and knowhow, we absolutely do it. Especially at such a small price of AK and a late lottery pick.

Post #19 » by **StocktonShorts** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:51 pm

Derek Fisher has about as much to do with the Lakers' success this year as Jack Nicholson.

TheDB2 · Post #20 » by **TheDB2** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:28 pm

jazzrock wrote:
TheDB2 wrote:Yeah that trade did work out but only because by a miracle we were able to get out of his contract. He played well the one year he was here but he would still be here right now making 7 million dollars a year at his current production, 7 points and lowest % he has ever shot. No thanks. We are in luxury tax hell now just imagine if he was still here. It was good for the Jazz in the long run to get out from under that contract.

And thats exactly what would happen in 3 years with RIP but worse cuz he gets paid even more. Thanks but no thanks to any RIP deals.

And what have we done since he has been gone? And what have the Lakers done since he got there? Yeah sure they got Pau too. But I guarantee, every single person on the Lakers and in that organization will say that Fisher has helped out a ton to get where they are. All I am saying is that if we have the chance to get proven winners on our team that can help provide some leadership and knowhow, we absolutely do it. Especially at such a small price of AK and a late lottery pick.

Its not a small price though. Yeah you give up AK (whose contract does expires before RIP's giving you much needed space to work earlier) and a pick that decreases in value every week, but you have to look long term. Its a HUGE price paying that much money in 3 years with absolutely nothing to show for it.

And Fisher is not the key to that team winning last year. Even if we had Fisher last year we still arent beating a team of Kobe, Pau, Bynum, and Odom. Those are the reasons they win, not Fisher. Now if the Jazz had Kobe instead of CJ, and Pau instead of Boozer than we probably are the top team in the league even without Fisher.

You can find winners and leaders for way less than $13 bills a year like RIP will be making.