RealGM

Hey, Raptors fan here.
Sorry to barge in on your team's board but im curious about CJ Miles and how much you guys value him and how much you think your franchise values him.
Most of the times that i watch him play he seems pretty solid, but i dont watch him as often as you guys do so im not sure how "good" he is.

I looked at the stats and was surprised at how poor they were. His stats are worse than our 20 year old rookie, demar derozan. Only 8/2 on 40%fg shooting.

So i have a couple of questions.

First, is he a good defender? From what i have seen, he is, but that's a small sample size.

Second, would your franchise be willing to trade this 23 year old lefty for expirings and shed some salary THIS year? Or is he too valuable for that?

Yes, who's expiring?

He is all-star caliber, what can we get?

What about his defence?

As a raptors fan id like to see a deal where some raptors expirings go to utah in exchange for CJ's 3.7M contract.

So i was asking if that's plausible or if im simply underrating him.

Lock-down defender. Let's do it, we'll take the expirings...

He's wildly inconsistent. He can be a good player but I don't think Utah is the team for him. He's had really good showings both offensively and defensively. He likes to take jumpshots more than he likes to drive. I'd trade him for expirings.

He shows flashes every year but never puts it together. They matched OKC's contract offer based on those flashes but it hasn't really worked out that well. Brewer, Korver and Matthews have all been better and more consistent than him.

At 3.7 M per year he is fair price now and will be a steal in next two seasons. His consistency will grow with improved strength and conditioning. He has skills to be playmaker and it will suit him better than just a catch-and-shooter.
Lionel Messi, don't get mislead by some clueless Jazz fans. All teams in Orlando summer league expressed interest in C.J. (they heard he is unpopular in Utah) so KOC knows his trade value is far higher than expirings or late 1st round picks.

Lionel Messi wrote:What about his defence?

As a raptors fan id like to see a deal where some raptors expirings go to utah in exchange for CJ's 3.7M contract.

So i was asking if that's plausible or if im simply underrating him.

What would you say to C.J. Miles/Ronnie Brewer for Marcus Banks/Demar Derozan?

Derozan has the highest ceiling out of these players no doubt, so the Jazz may be getting the better deal longterm. However, Derozan isn't going to help you win right now, and winning now is all that should matter in Toronto. Win now and Bosh stays in Toronto.

You'd be getting C.J. and his potential, if you can pull it out of him. Potential to be a solid starter, probably never all-star, but solid starter. He definitely has the body to be a great defender, just lacks the drive at the moment.

Brewer is really what I think would make this deal worth while for you all. Brewer brings all of the things that the Raptors seem to be lacking this year. A quick slasher with a great set of hands when it comes to pressure passes down low, a good rebounder, and most importantly perimeter defense. Ronnie is great at playing the passing lanes, which often leads to fast break points. I'd hate to see him go but with Mathews surprising play and Korver seemingly back to form, I'd consider it. Also, his shot has really improved over the last few years. Definitely not a sharp-shooter, but not a liability anymore either.

(We'd also be taking Marcus Banks' contract off your hands. I haven't seen him play in Toronto but he's been pretty underwhelming everywhere else he's played)

Your thoughts?

By all reports, CJ was going to have a breakout season. He put on some muscle, has been working out hard, and got his head on straight about where he is as a player and what he needs to do to improve.
However, it has never materialized. In fact, he is really the same player he has been his entire career so far:
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 UTA 27 10 20.0 0.405 0.306 0.652 0.4 1.6 2.0 1.2 0.7 0.2 1.0 2.8 8.2
Career 219 108 15.6 0.436 0.333 0.787 0.5 1.2 1.7 1.1 0.5 0.2 0.7 2.0 6.2

Brewer plays better defense, Korver and Mathews shoot better. Miles just keeps getting lost in the shuffle. I definitely think Miles could be had in trade. But if the trade is going to happen before the trade deadline it needs to help their playoff run. If not, it will have to wait until the offseason. The Jazz don't have any urgency to move him right now.

jozef wrote:At 3.7 M per year he is fair price now and will be a steal in next two seasons. His consistency will grow with improved strength and conditioning. He has skills to be playmaker and it will suit him better than just a catch-and-shooter.
Lionel Messi, don't get mislead by some clueless Jazz fans. All teams in Orlando summer league expressed interest in C.J. (they heard he is unpopular in Utah) so KOC knows his trade value is far higher than expirings or late 1st round picks.

thats what jazz fans have been saying for the past 3 years with this kid. give it up, cj is the worst player in a jazz uniform right now. if jazz received an offer that would offer them cap relief for miles you can't tell me they wouldn't seriously consider it.

Fido wrote:But if the trade is going to happen before the trade deadline it needs to help their playoff run. If not, it will have to wait until the offseason. The Jazz don't have any urgency to move him right now.

I disagree with this. Trading CJ for draft picks doesn't really hurt the team on the court, IMO. It means more minutes for Matthews and Korver, who have been much, much better contributors. In addition it would save the organization ~$7.4M.

jozef wrote:At 3.7 M per year he is fair price now and will be a steal in next two seasons. His consistency will grow with improved strength and conditioning. He has skills to be playmaker and it will suit him better than just a catch-and-shooter.
Lionel Messi, don't get mislead by some clueless Jazz fans. All teams in Orlando summer league expressed interest in C.J. (they heard he is unpopular in Utah) so KOC knows his trade value is far higher than expirings or late 1st round picks.

Classic overvaluation of CJ. He has been God awful this year, except for 3 or 4 games. His value is much less now than it was in the off-season. There is no way we are getting a first round pick out of him.

If there were a black hole on this team, CJ is it.

I'd move him for an expiring.

That being said, I think he could flourish in a fast paced 3 point shooting team. He's got some good one on one skills and an outside shot, but, those skills are likea square peg in a round hole here in utah.

HappyProle wrote:

Fido wrote:But if the trade is going to happen before the trade deadline it needs to help their playoff run. If not, it will have to wait until the offseason. The Jazz don't have any urgency to move him right now.

I disagree with this. Trading CJ for draft picks doesn't really hurt the team on the court, IMO. It means more minutes for Matthews and Korver, who have been much, much better contributors. In addition it would save the organization ~$7.4M.

How many teams have the cap room to absorb CJ for draft picks? Nobody these days.
So that means it would have to be a team with a trade exception. The only ones with a TE large enough to absorb CJ is:
Denver -- $3.7 million (Steven Hunter)
Miami – $4.3 million (Marcus Banks – expires February 15)
New Jersey -- $3.8 million (Vince Carter)
New Orleans -- $4.0 million (Rasual Butler)
Orlando -- $6.9 million (Hedo Turkoglu)

Of these, the only one who is under the luxury tax level is New Jersey. I've not heard any feedback on the topic but it would be an interesting question to ask the Nets forum if they would be interested in CJ for their trade exception. If they aren't, then we're out of luck. The Jazz would have to bring in someone else close to CJ's salary but then you no longer have the benefit of salary/luxury tax savings that made it attractive in the first place.

seejaydeja wrote:
thats what jazz fans have been saying for the past 3 years with this kid. give it up, cj is the worst player in a jazz uniform right now. if jazz received an offer that would offer them cap relief for miles you can't tell me they wouldn't seriously consider it.

They would consider it, but I doubt they do it. Seven Million is a lot of money, but it still doesnt get you out of the luxury tax. They have already decided that its boom or bust with CJ and I doubt they will trade him. However, if the right deal comes along and CJ is packaged with someone else then I see him being dealt.

QuantumMacgyver wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:What about his defence?

As a raptors fan id like to see a deal where some raptors expirings go to utah in exchange for CJ's 3.7M contract.

So i was asking if that's plausible or if im simply underrating him.

What would you say to C.J. Miles/Ronnie Brewer for Marcus Banks/Demar Derozan?

Derozan has the highest ceiling out of these players no doubt, so the Jazz may be getting the better deal longterm. However, Derozan isn't going to help you win right now, and winning now is all that should matter in Toronto. Win now and Bosh stays in Toronto.

You'd be getting C.J. and his potential, if you can pull it out of him. Potential to be a solid starter, probably never all-star, but solid starter. He definitely has the body to be a great defender, just lacks the drive at the moment.

Brewer is really what I think would make this deal worth while for you all. Brewer brings all of the things that the Raptors seem to be lacking this year. A quick slasher with a great set of hands when it comes to pressure passes down low, a good rebounder, and most importantly perimeter defense. Ronnie is great at playing the passing lanes, which often leads to fast break points. I'd hate to see him go but with Mathews surprising play and Korver seemingly back to form, I'd consider it. Also, his shot has really improved over the last few years. Definitely not a sharp-shooter, but not a liability anymore either.

(We'd also be taking Marcus Banks' contract off your hands. I haven't seen him play in Toronto but he's been pretty underwhelming everywhere else he's played)

Your thoughts?

DeRozan is almost untouchable. At least in my eyes.

The kid is an absolute stud. He probably puts in more work than anyone else on our team and has tons of potential. He's shown flashes of really great play and when he is confident he has a nice mid-range game.
Im pretty much 100% sure this kid's gonna be a star in the NBA.

I really like Brewer and have thought about him on the raptors and how great of a fit he would be, but i wouldnt include DeRozan for him.

seejaydeja wrote:

jozef wrote:At 3.7 M per year he is fair price now and will be a steal in next two seasons. His consistency will grow with improved strength and conditioning. He has skills to be playmaker and it will suit him better than just a catch-and-shooter.
Lionel Messi, don't get mislead by some clueless Jazz fans. All teams in Orlando summer league expressed interest in C.J. (they heard he is unpopular in Utah) so KOC knows his trade value is far higher than expirings or late 1st round picks.

thats what jazz fans have been saying for the past 3 years with this kid. give it up, cj is the worst player in a jazz uniform right now. if jazz received an offer that would offer them cap relief for miles you can't tell me they wouldn't seriously consider it.

Somewhere Kosta is reading your words and thanking you. CJ is not the worst guyy on the team he is probably close but thats not really saying a whole lot this team is deep. Also I think the Jazz Brass value CJ much more then most fans here. What does Sloan always say? It's not who starts the game it's who finishes it, last I checked CJ has been playing 4th quarters lately. IF he could get consistent playing time he would most likely be having a better year plus he was hurt early in the year. What player can just jump off the bench for a quarter and light it up on most nights? I would say none. Also CJ is on a very reasonable contract.

Mathews is the guy who is playing late in the 4th. CJ would put up better numbers IF he played well enough to earn more consistent playing time. Not the other way around. You have to earn your way in this league and CJ hasn't proven to be better than the others at his same position enough to keep the time to himself. I'd love to see him do it but he just hasn't been there yet. His stats bear that out.

CAE15 wrote:Somewhere Kosta is reading your words and thanking you. CJ is not the worst guyy on the team he is probably close but thats not really saying a whole lot this team is deep. Also I think the Jazz Brass value CJ much more then most fans here. What does Sloan always say? It's not who starts the game it's who finishes it, last I checked CJ has been playing 4th quarters lately. IF he could get consistent playing time he would most likely be having a better year plus he was hurt early in the year. What player can just jump off the bench for a quarter and light it up on most nights? I would say none. Also CJ is on a very reasonable contract.

None?! Manu, Antawn Jamison, Mike Miller, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, Leandro Barbosa, Jamal Crawford. All players that could jump off the bench for a quarter and light it up on ANY night. This is such a common thing in the league that the Sixth Man Award has been around since '82.

And all this Kosta hate is a little (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Big men almost always have a few horrible first seasons. His play was a lot better last year cuz he had a lot more minutes and and a much different body. Big men take time to adjust to the NBA. Very rarely does a big step into the NBA and make an impact during their first few seasons. That being said, Kosta does look awful this year, but give the 21 year old kid some time.