Ignore naysayers - city can attract free agents

[captain_cheapseats]

Still waiting to hear if you were a Supersonics fan McG; somehow you keep forgetting to respond to that. One would think that, given your concern over the objectivity of other posters, you would be anxious to address this point.

Oh, btw, looking over this little back-and-forth, I realized that you've still yet to explain the "MSA's are in fact what are used to determine the very fact that Cap is attempting to quantify" comment that started this whole thing. Before you feign indignation and totally retreat from this thread, could you please explain how MSAs quantify "how many people live closer to OKC than any other NBA city?" Or maybe it's finally time for you to admit that you were talking completely out of your *ss.....

Most certainly Cap. First of all, you weren't trying to quantify how many people live closer to OKC than any other NBA city (but in your own words nice try).

Are you serious? The quoted language is verbatim from my initial post in this thread. So again, please stop your sad attempts to straw-man and either (1) explain how MSAs are used to determine "how many people live closer to OKC than any other NBA city[,]" or (2) give it up, and admit that your response was foolish.

This was your change of subject but I will, once again, outline that MSA's are the primary indicator for FANBASE. It goes back to the simple (yet obviously confusing) fact that MSA's take into account the REALISTIC economic market for any metropolitan area. You are obviously under the impression that these areas have a substantial economic benefit from cities outside of their designated MSA's and the center of your confusion has been my disagreement with this misconception.

You seem to believe that people are unlikely to root for a sports team located farther from their home than they would be willing to commute to work on a daily basis. I think that your assumption is erroneous, and really quite foolish. A team's fanbase almost always extends well beyond the borders of the MSA where it is located.

[Rockmaninoff]

Hi. I'm a Milwaukee Bucks fan. You guys can throw out all the market size talk. Attracting free agents really comes down to:

A) Offering the most money. That includes overpaying your own UFA's and outside UFA's and RFA's. I'm guessing Presti will attempt to extend Durant rather than let him go into his RFA year. Superstar players are worthy of that. All other players should be paid market value or less. A small market team shouldn't overpay a 'star' player. Like what Milwaukee did with Michael Redd, a scorer who doesn't bring much else to the game. It just creates too many problems. A good organization will let those guys go if they are offered too much money. Anyway, the most important thing to PROFESSIONAL basketball players, is salary.

B) A reputation as a great organization. Players love to work in an environment where they are pampered and where they feel they are treated with class and respect. They want the best amenities and facilities.

C) A superstar player and a team on the verge of contention. Veteran players will sign for market value or below, in any market, if the team is contending for a 'Chip. That's the secret of the Spurs. They got extremely lucky with Tim Duncan, and they have managed it well from there. OKC has a leg up on a team like Milwaukee or even probably Memphis, in that they have a potential superstar player in KD. Superstars win in the NBA.

I doubt Presti will overpay. I don't know enough about the management and the facilities to comment on the organization. But, you guys got KD, and if he lives up to the hype, and if Presti is smart enough to find 2 'star' players (at or less than market value) to put beside KD, eventually veteran players will flock to OKC, regardless of market size and tax brackets. And, Presti will be able to sign them for bargain deals.

[durka]

Ask small market franchises in Salt Lake City and Memphis and Sacramento and Milwaukee and Indianapolis and New Orleans about their recent history with free agents.

I found this quote pretty damn funny. The only one of these franchises that has any success is New Orleans, and rightfully so. What this article has proven is that small market teams can keep the guys they drafted sometimes. The biggest name I saw dropped in that article that signed with another team is Peja, and he's not really an allstar. The only reason all these stars resign with these small market teams though, is that 20 million dollar difference. I don't thing Durant will have to worry about that though, he'll probably be swarmed with endorsment deals, so i guess you guys are screwed.

Go Supersonics!

* btw Mcg, you seem like a huge dick. You lost the argument and now you resort to personal attacks. I used that Dr. Phil **** when I was in grade 7 bruh.

[Fido]

Let's forget the technicalities of the market size for a minute and look at the factors many have thrown out and agreed as being the biggest factors in attracting free agents:
- $$$ - Good news: OKC sits under the salary cap (but what's going to happen with Swift?) and has several contracts totaling nearly $23 million coming off their cap after this season (Wilcox, Marshall, Mason, Smith). Bad news: Outside of Durant, there isn't a marquee player on the roster. OKC must hope for a Joe Johnson-type free agent signing of someone who wants to be the big fish. Those don't happen every season though.

- Opportunity - Good news: Without a roster packed with talent, there definitely is opportunity for skilled players. Bad news: The NBA is set up to help teams retain their best players so it will take compelling circumstances to land a big name.

- Success - Good news: ??? Bad News: The Sonics last season won 20 games--the worst record in the west and 2nd only to the Heat for futility. This also included giving up 138 points in regulation time to the Nuggets in a 42-point loss. The Thunder is obviously distancing itself from the Sonics so maybe these factors will be overlooked a bit. But then the challenge is being the "new team" (see the Charlotte Bobcats). OKC finds itself stuck between a legacy who is distanced from its glory days or no legacy at all. Neither of which is a huge plus.

I don't believe the fact that OKC is OKC will stand in the way of bringing in free agents. I believe there are greater challenges than that to overcome. Presti has a solid reputation as a GM but there is no quick fix to get out of this situation. The western conference continues to be tough so a modest improvement on the 20 win season (with all of its distractions around the lawsuits and potential move) will be a success this coming season.

[Fido]

... The only one of these franchises that has any success is New Orleans, and rightfully so...The biggest name I saw dropped in that article that signed with another team is Peja, and he's not really an allstar.

I didn't read the article but another and perhaps the biggest/most obvious free agent success for a small market team is the Jazz with Boozer. And yes, they had to drop more $$$ than either Boozer's old team or any other team could to land him. And have a rising young star for him to come play with (Deron Williams).

[Rockmaninoff]

Again, as I was getting at with my post above, my advice for OKC fans is to not worry about outside free agents. At least not at this time.

Presti will build the team through the draft, and through smart opportunistic trades. The free agents you'll be signing will be for the MLE or less. Excluding that is, the team's own free agents who will be signed for market value or less.

Now, if in a couple of years KD is a superstar and the team is one 'star' player away from contention, and has the cap space, then you will see them attempt to sign a big name outside free agent. Until then, be happy that you guys are loaded with draft picks and upcoming cap flexibility, which can be used to resign your own players, or can be used to take on excess in coming salary in a trade.

[Wizfan#1]

... The only one of these franchises that has any success is New Orleans, and rightfully so...The biggest name I saw dropped in that article that signed with another team is Peja, and he's not really an allstar.

I didn't read the article but another and perhaps the biggest/most obvious free agent success for a small market team is the Jazz with Boozer. And yes, they had to drop more $$$ than either Boozer's old team or any other team could to land him. And have a rising young star for him to come play with (Deron Williams).

The article was just as much about Durant not leaving OKC as it was about OKC being able to attract outside free agents to town...You're right about Boozer but wrong about Williams. Boozer signed on to play for the Jazz the season before they got D-Will. In fact, it was Boozer's injury -- he played in only 23 games his first season in Utah -- that gave the Jazz the opportunity to get Williams.

But to your point about Utah having to overpay, that is almost always the case to lure another team's top flight free agent. We saw that this summer with the Elton Brand and Baron Davis moves.

Other examples of big names moving on to or re-signing with smaller markets are Rashard Lewis from Seattle to Orlando and Mo Williams (re-signning) in Milwaukee last summer, Michael Redd (re-signing) in Milwaukee and the aforementioned Stojakovic in New Orleans in 2006, Mehmet Okur from Detroit to Utah in 2004 and Pau Gasol (re-signing) in Memphis and Andrei Kirilenko (re-signing) in Utah in 2004.

[McG]

* btw Mcg, you seem like a huge dick. You lost the argument and now you resort to personal attacks. I used that Dr. Phil **** when I was in grade 7 bruh.

Well good luck in high school bruh because Dr. Phil has only been making the $ on TV for about 4 years.

And if you are truly as smart as your posts imply it's not surprising that you gravitated towards the belief that the Thunder will soon be privy to the largest geographic market area of any professional sports team. Please do us all a favor and don't reproduce.

[McG]

More nonsense...

Cap you either have very little reading comprehension or can't stand not having the last word. Read my previous post again (and most likely again, and again, and again so that you understand it 100%) and your questions will be magically answered. And by the way, this is how I know you're dumb...

You seem to believe that people are unlikely to root for a sports team located farther from their home than they would be willing to commute to work on a daily basis. I think that your assumption is erroneous, and really quite foolish. A team's fanbase almost always extends well beyond the borders of the MSA where it is located.

I mean, do you really think that Bennett cares about people 200 miles away who are diehard fans and are one of about 45 people who signed up for NBATV? The minority doesn't constitute a market. If you're arguing that they'll make a weekend of it and go to 10 games a year, great. But that means diddlyf**k to ANY NBA owner. I'm talking about what drives an NBA franchise Cap, the $$$$. That $250 you are trying to argue for is just about as relevant as your posts. Come back and talk after you've completed a college level course or two (and community college doesn't count wiseguy!).

[Scoot McGroot]

Much like Indiana, you're simply never going to build through signing big money outside free agents. If a player is getting the same big money offer from Oklahoma City or Miami, they're going to pick Miami 9.5 times out of 10. Here in Indy, we simply haven't had a major free agent signing (well, excluding Travis Diener of course ) as far back as I can remember. Every player we had either came via the draft or trade.

Now, once you get guys, it WILL be easier to keep them than it was to get them. However, it's likely not smart to bank on big money free agent signings. They just won't happen, and if they do, they're VERY few and far between. Just draft well and make some smart deals using any cap space you have, and then build your talent up over a course of years and let them mature together.

[captain_cheapseats]

More nonsense...

Cap you either have very little reading comprehension or can't stand not having the last word. Read my previous post again (and most likely again, and again, and again so that you understand it 100%) and your questions will be magically answered. And by the way, this is how I know you're dumb...

You seem to believe that people are unlikely to root for a sports team located farther from their home than they would be willing to commute to work on a daily basis. I think that your assumption is erroneous, and really quite foolish. A team's fanbase almost always extends well beyond the borders of the MSA where it is located.

I mean, do you really think that Bennett cares about people 200 miles away who are diehard fans and are one of about 45 people who signed up for NBATV? The minority doesn't constitute a market. If you're arguing that they'll make a weekend of it and go to 10 games a year, great. But that means diddlyf**k to ANY NBA owner. I'm talking about what drives an NBA franchise Cap, the $$$$. That $250 you are trying to argue for is just about as relevant as your posts. Come back and talk after you've completed a college level course or two (and community college doesn't count wiseguy!).

More of the same from you McG.....still ignoring the bias question despite that you first raised the issue, still failing to explain your initial reply, still resorting to petty personal attacks.

As for your latest arguments: (1) the OKC MSA does not extend 200 miles; (2) your NBATV comment has nothing to do with what we've been talking about.....go back and re-read, I'm saying the games will be on local cable in areas where the Thunder are granted DMA rights; and (3) I'm sure Mr. Bennett will be happy to welcome Thunder fans into the fold regardless of where they may reside.

[McG]

As for your latest arguments: (1) the OKC MSA does not extend 200 miles; (2) your NBATV comment has nothing to do with what we've been talking about.....go back and re-read, I'm saying the games will be on local cable in areas where the Thunder are granted DMA rights; and (3) I'm sure Mr. Bennett will be happy to welcome Thunder fans into the fold regardless of where they may reside.

Again with the nonexistent reading comprehension. My advice: Put down the keyboard and pick up the Crayola's.