All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here!

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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#61 » by slick_watts » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:56 pm

richboy wrote:I don't see Westbrook like Rondo at all. Rondo is a pure PG. Past first. Has always been great and running offense. Westbrook IMO has to go as far as just about any player to really show he can be a PG. Almost nothing about Westbrook says PG except his height.


i agree with you. westbrook didn't do much last year to prove that he's a real point guard to run an offense. certainly not on the level of a guy like rondo.

richboy wrote:The thing I don't understand is why can't Westbrook be the SG. Why are the Thunder trying to force the PG tag. Westbrook is nearly as tall as OJ Mayo. His reach makes him longer than Mayo. Westbrook plays best when he is trying to score. He has very little PG instincts. Really if you ask me Westbrook looks like a guy that wants to score 25 ppg and not someone that wants to dish out 10 assist per game. He was second on the team in shots per minute a year ago. I would bet he nearly shot as many shots per minute as Durant the second half of the year.


here's my feeling about it, and i think it is similar to what the organization thinks. russell westbrook came into the year with very little point guard skill or instinct. he's still probably not a 'pure point' player, but he improved visibly as the year went on and really tried to run the offense more especially in march/april when he was putting up 6-7 assists a game and he was struggling with his shot.

i don't have a problem with presti sticking with his guy and giving him the opportunity to prove that he's an nba point guard. the thunder aren't in win now mode and can afford to see if their roster clicks as they build it. i don't think it would have been fair to westbrook to give him one year to prove he can run the show.

richboy wrote:The problem I see now is you have 1 ball and you have 4 guys that I see being players that want to score. No team has 4 guys averaging 20. Rarely you see teams even with 4 guys above 16. Someone is going to have to pull there game back. You don't have anyone that is thinking I need to pass first. Getting Rubio would have stated that no one would have to pull back on looking for there offense. Instead Durant, Green, Westbrook could actually be what they look like they are. Which are all scorers.


i share your concern about sharing the offense. it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. even though all these guys can score, they all do it in different ways. this is why i think it has a chance to work offensively. westbrook's a guy who wants to get to the basket, durant wants to stay on the perimeter more, jeff green is more of a mid range guy, and harden fills the role of the much needed 3pt shooting 2 guard who will probably get a lot of looks with this roster. i think westbrook showed enough toward the end of the year running the offense and (especially) wanting to get better at running the offense that it's worth it trotting out this combination one more time. rubio is intriguing but seems like way more of a project than harden, who can slip in and produce at his position right away. i don't think this team needs another young guy who needs years to get it.

richboy wrote:I'm not hating on Harden. I just get the feeling I had when the Hawks passed on Chris Paul. Not saying Rubio will be Chris Paul. I remember the day of that draft I said why not take Paul because he was going to allow players like Josh Smith to be better players. I'm wondering if the Thunder blew an opportunity to make Durant, Green, Westbrook better players.


i think if rubio was selected lots of people would have felt bad that westbrook wasn't really given a shot. the thunder were horrible most of last year but got a lot better toward the end of the year, and their offense especially started to get more efficient. the thunder have the pieces to re-organize the roster around durant if they have to, and get a point guard to play next to westbrook if that's the direction they want to go after this year. i don't think there will be any high expectations of this roster until 2010, they'll probably have another two lotto picks in that draft, so in this circumstance i don't mind presti sticking to his guns.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#62 » by dre_1614 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:36 am

richboy wrote:The only reason Rubio is even in the discussion of going back to Europe is because the Minny GM was stupid and took another PG right after him. Suddenly the Rubio camp can see Flynn and Telfair on the roster. Now they have to wonder will the playing time be there. Rubio isn't going to pay 3 million dollars to sit on the bench. That issue wouldn't have been here. Also they suddenly talking about Rubio playing SG on defense. Another issue that I think has disturbed Rubio's people.

I don't see Westbrook like Rondo at all. Rondo is a pure PG. Past first. Has always been great and running offense. Westbrook IMO has to go as far as just about any player to really show he can be a PG. Almost nothing about Westbrook says PG except his height.

The thing I don't understand is why can't Westbrook be the SG. Why are the Thunder trying to force the PG tag. Westbrook is nearly as tall as OJ Mayo. His reach makes him longer than Mayo. Westbrook plays best when he is trying to score. He has very little PG instincts. Really if you ask me Westbrook looks like a guy that wants to score 25 ppg and not someone that wants to dish out 10 assist per game. He was second on the team in shots per minute a year ago. I would bet he nearly shot as many shots per minute as Durant the second half of the year.

The problem I see now is you have 1 ball and you have 4 guys that I see being players that want to score. No team has 4 guys averaging 20. Rarely you see teams even with 4 guys above 16. Someone is going to have to pull there game back. You don't have anyone that is thinking I need to pass first. Getting Rubio would have stated that no one would have to pull back on looking for there offense. Instead Durant, Green, Westbrook could actually be what they look like they are. Which are all scorers.

I'm not hating on Harden. I just get the feeling I had when the Hawks passed on Chris Paul. Not saying Rubio will be Chris Paul. I remember the day of that draft I said why not take Paul because he was going to allow players like Josh Smith to be better players. I'm wondering if the Thunder blew an opportunity to make Durant, Green, Westbrook better players.


Harden has a pass first mentality, who just happens to be really good at scoring the ball. Sort of like Derrick Rose, he has the ability to get his shot off at any time but opts to play unselfish basketball most of the time. Durant has shown he can pass, and has said he needs to continue to improve looking for teammates. Jeff Green is a good passer, and Russell will develop his passing game. I think its an advantage when you have 4 guys who can all score, not to mention none of them are selfish basketball players.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#63 » by Durantist » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:06 am

OKC gets a B+
-Presti didn't give up PHX 2010 1st rounder to get BJ
-Hasheem was drafted by Memphis
-Took Harden over Tyreke Evans
On Rubio- This whole "true PG" about Westbrook is blown out of proportion. IMO having a dominate true PG lead team is quite overrated. Since the 90's here are the starting PGs that have won titles:
BJ Armstrong,Kenny Smith,Sam Cassell,Ron Harper,Avery Johnson,Fisher,Tony Parker,Billups,Jason Williams, and Rajon Rondo. Out of these 10 PGs only 1 is considered to be a true PG lead team (Billups).
I should point out that Parker is a good comparison to what Westbrook should be able to mold his game into...hmmm (Presti did scout TP). Parker is a 18ppg 6apg 3 rpg 2.5tov player....and Westbrook (rookie) is a 15ppg 6apg 5rpg 3.7tov player....oddly similar numbers, and if you watch Westbrook play, oddly similar gameplay tendencies!!!
IMO Franchise PGs win regular season games due to the fact that they are the ones on the court running the team's system/plays on a nightly basis, but when Playoffs come around the key ingredients are Defense and a superstar player that gets superstar calls!
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#64 » by It_Was_Typed » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:02 pm

I played with James Harden in high school and followed him at Arizona State, so I know a lot about his game. All that that talk about Russell Westbrook not being a pure PG, is a reason why the Thunder drafted James. He can bring the ball up, set up the offense and make the open pass, while Russell plays off the ball. James has no problem doing that. He's not selfish nor does he need to have the ball in his hands to be effective.

James does have several things he needs to improve on. Namely, his ball-handling and mid-range shooting. He does a good job of getting to his spots and drawing contact (think Paul Pierce). His catch and shoot from 3 point distance is fine, and should get better over time. I think he'll be a reliable defender over time. He always defended the best player on the other team in high school. Can't really say anything about his defense at Arizona State because they played a zone. He's just a good all around talent.

Overall, I couldn't be more happier for James and the Thunder. They are the perfect fit for each other. He'll be able to contribute immediatley and grow with the core. It's going to be exciting watching the Thunder play over these next few years.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#65 » by Cammo101 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:17 pm

All this talk of Harden being some OJ Mayo like ball dominating scorer is way off. Harden is the perfect fit next to Westbrook because he is unselfish and is a good play maker. This pick was a slam dunk and helps OKC tremendously.

I also really like the Mullens pick. He will not be a stud right away, but has the upside to be a top 5 or 6 player from this draft.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#66 » by slick_watts » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:41 pm

Cammo101 wrote:All this talk of Harden being some OJ Mayo like ball dominating scorer is way off. Harden is the perfect fit next to Westbrook because he is unselfish and is a good play maker. This pick was a slam dunk and helps OKC tremendously.


he seems to play with a lot of control and poise, i'd like to see him become a brandon roy type of player (obviously less talented) who can run the offense on some possessions if westbrook's acting nuts.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#67 » by dre_1614 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:51 pm

anyone know where I can find Arizona State games online or to download? Never seen an actual game of Harden's. Only youtube which there isn't much of and you cant get a sense of his poise and flow.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#68 » by It_Was_Typed » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:54 pm

Cammo101 wrote:All this talk of Harden being some OJ Mayo like ball dominating scorer is way off. Harden is the perfect fit next to Westbrook because he is unselfish and is a good play maker. This pick was a slam dunk and helps OKC tremendously.
.

Exactly.
Cammo101 wrote:I also really like the Mullens pick. He will not be a stud right away, but has the upside to be a top 5 or 6 player from this draft.

Late round picks are crap shoots anyways, so it's not that big of a deal if Mullens is out the league in five years. Perfect example of a low risk-high reward pick.

Great job by Presti with both first round picks.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#69 » by Relentless88 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:56 am

I really like this OKC team after the draft. This team has a lot of young amazing talent. And Rivals.com had Mullens as the number 1 prospect out of high school in 2008 ahead of guys like Jennings, DeRozan, Holiday, Evans and so there must be a lot of potential in the kid. Might've been a lottery pick if he stayed another year in college.

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp

Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Kevin Durrant
Jeff Green
BJ Mullens

I like where this team's headed...
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#70 » by jcldallas24 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:28 am

Wow a year later what if ya'll had kept Beaubois.....I figure ya'll prefer Mullens at that time, but what do ya'll think now?

Beaubois woulda been perfect off the bench with Harden.....
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#71 » by sonictecture » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:31 am

Although Dallas drafted Mullens for OKC and OKC drafted Beaubois for Dallas, I'm not so sure that Presti would have drafted Beaubois if he didn't want Mullens. As it turned out Presti liked Maynor in the draft and probably some others. Presti was eventually able to acquire Maynor through trade.

Unless Beaubois becomes a top 3 point guard, I think Presti is o.k. with his decision.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#72 » by SOUP » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Relentless88 wrote:I really like this OKC team after the draft. This team has a lot of young amazing talent. And Rivals.com had Mullens as the number 1 prospect out of high school in 2008 ahead of guys like Jennings, DeRozan, Holiday, Evans and so there must be a lot of potential in the kid. Might've been a lottery pick if he stayed another year in college.

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp

Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Kevin Durrant
Jeff Green
BJ Mullens

I like where this team's headed...


OT: I think I pissed myself laughing at your sig.


Any of you really wish you drafted Reke? I thought on draft day he was going to be your pick, and was extremely surprised when you picked Harden. My gut feeling is that Harden isn´t going to get much better and will be extremely inconsistent. I´m surprised his stock didn´t crash after that abismal performace in the NCAA tourney. Bad pick IMO.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#73 » by Joel Embust » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:38 pm

SOUP wrote:
Any of you really wish you drafted Reke? I thought on draft day he was going to be your pick, and was extremely surprised when you picked Harden. My gut feeling is that Harden isn´t going to get much better and will be extremely inconsistent. I´m surprised his stock didn´t crash after that abismal performace in the NCAA tourney. Bad pick IMO.


I'm tired of defending Harden so I'll just let him shut the naysayers up next season.

Tyreke wouldn't have played that many minutes on the Thunder and with WB and KD on this team wouldn't have had the ball in his hands that much. He'd put up equally unimpressive numbers on the Thunder as James.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#74 » by SOUP » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:00 pm

Eleqtrique wrote:
SOUP wrote:
Any of you really wish you drafted Reke? I thought on draft day he was going to be your pick, and was extremely surprised when you picked Harden. My gut feeling is that Harden isn´t going to get much better and will be extremely inconsistent. I´m surprised his stock didn´t crash after that abismal performace in the NCAA tourney. Bad pick IMO.


I'm tired of defending Harden so I'll just let him shut the naysayers up next season.

Tyreke wouldn't have played that many minutes on the Thunder and with WB and KD on this team wouldn't have had the ball in his hands that much. He'd put up equally unimpressive numbers on the Thunder than James.


Great players make their team great. Tyreke Evans is a great player. The argument that Harden was the best pick for the Thunder is just complete bs. Reke could of started at the 2 AND play backup 1 to allow Russel some rest.

You always pick the best player available! Do not pick on the draft based on need if a better player is available.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#75 » by slick_watts » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:09 pm

SOUP wrote:Great players make their team great. Tyreke Evans is a great player. The argument that Harden was the best pick for the Thunder is just complete bs. Reke could of started at the 2 AND play backup 1 to allow Russel some rest.

You always pick the best player available! Do not pick on the draft based on need if a better player is available.


This has been rehashed a lot. Bottom line: it's too early to say. Harden has the right tools to fit in perfectly next to Russ. Evans would have to be shoe horned in, he can't shoot, he's a ball hog, etc. We'll see what happens in the next couple years.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#76 » by _BBIB_ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:37 pm

Think you guys could use some more size down low. Don't know about BJ Mullens, and Daniel Orton is completely unproven, what about Whiteside?
Shaheen wrote:You wanna make a sig bet that Horford will not win this year? They will not even hit .500. Book it.
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Re: All Thunder Draft Day Talk Here! 

Post#77 » by sonictecture » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:35 am

I think Whiteside would be lucky to land in a situation like OKC.

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