12/1 - POSTGAME | Minnesota Timberwolves (107) - (111) Oklahoma City Thunder

[bondom34]

1. Because we literally saw Oladipo without Russ and he wasn't capable of.this and 2. Comas wasn't used that way because of Russ. He was used that way because of Steven. And Roberson. Because not having another shooter meant over half your lineup can't shoot.

Also Dame shoots as much and is a worse defender. Its not analytics its logic.

I said before the Lillard isn’t an ideal switch because he’s a bad defender. Dame shoots more THIS year, not historically. Yes Dre and Adams are a big part of last years spacing but Russ’ shooting from three isn’t great.

What I said is my ideal replacement is prime mike Conley. Where I may not have made myself clear is that I don’t think Conley by himself is equal to russ. What i mean is that if Russ were traded for someone like Kawhi and the team had more of a jack-of-all-trades point guard, I think the team becomes better.

I think this is the case for almost every team that has a great point guard. Not because of who the guard is, but because in the current NBA a great wing can do more to lift your team than just about any other position.

Outside current Curry and prime CP3 I agree with this.

[ThunderBolt]

1. Because we literally saw Oladipo without Russ and he wasn't capable of.this and 2. Comas wasn't used that way because of Russ. He was used that way because of Steven. And Roberson. Because not having another shooter meant over half your lineup can't shoot.

Also Dame shoots as much and is a worse defender. Its not analytics its logic.

I said before the Lillard isn’t an ideal switch because he’s a bad defender. Dame shoots more THIS year, not historically. Yes Dre and Adams are a big part of last years spacing but Russ’ shooting from three isn’t great.

What I said is my ideal replacement is prime mike Conley. Where I may not have made myself clear is that I don’t think Conley by himself is equal to russ. What i mean is that if Russ were traded for someone like Kawhi and the team had more of a jack-of-all-trades point guard, I think the team becomes better.

Wait so now you're trading Russ for literally a better player then replacing him with a clearly inferior point guard? Sure I agree too. Trade him for Lebron and replace him with Bledsoe and you're likely better. Conley alone hasn't ever come close to Russ and hasn't been able to lift an offense or defense.

If you're thinking that its vastly overrating the effect a guard has on team defense in general.

I’m saying what I’ve said all along- a high usage, poor shooting point guard who doesn’t play defense isn’t ideal to build around. Trade Russ for a more efficient superstar and get a well rounded pg, and this team is better. If you want to provide your list of where Russ ranks among players, I’ll tell you which ones would make us a better team. I know that teams don’t normally trade stars so it’s not going to happen.

[bondom34]

I said before the Lillard isn’t an ideal switch because he’s a bad defender. Dame shoots more THIS year, not historically. Yes Dre and Adams are a big part of last years spacing but Russ’ shooting from three isn’t great.

What I said is my ideal replacement is prime mike Conley. Where I may not have made myself clear is that I don’t think Conley by himself is equal to russ. What i mean is that if Russ were traded for someone like Kawhi and the team had more of a jack-of-all-trades point guard, I think the team becomes better.

Wait so now you're trading Russ for literally a better player then replacing him with a clearly inferior point guard? Sure I agree too. Trade him for Lebron and replace him with Bledsoe and you're likely better. Conley alone hasn't ever come close to Russ and hasn't been able to lift an offense or defense.

If you're thinking that its vastly overrating the effect a guard has on team defense in general.

I’m saying what I’ve said all along- a high usage, poor shooting point guard who doesn’t play defense isn’t ideal to build around. Trade Russ for a more efficient superstar and get a well rounded pg, and this team is better. If you want to provide your list of where Russ ranks among players, I’ll tell you which ones would make us a better team. I know that teams don’t normally trade stars so it’s not going to happen.

This year a bunch are playing better. The last few? Steph, Kawhi, Lebron are the only 3 for sure. He was 4th in poy voting last year and a 1a/1b with cupcake in 2016. That's it.

And if you're using Harden because I know you wi he was .500 two years ago and Houston fans were wanting him gone.

Also if you're using Conley still those Grizzleis teams were better defensively with him on the bench and the Thunder have has elite defenses with Westbrook.

So yes if youbtrafe him for one of those 4 sure I agree.

[ThunderBolt]

Wait so now you're trading Russ for literally a better player then replacing him with a clearly inferior point guard? Sure I agree too. Trade him for Lebron and replace him with Bledsoe and you're likely better. Conley alone hasn't ever come close to Russ and hasn't been able to lift an offense or defense.

If you're thinking that its vastly overrating the effect a guard has on team defense in general.

I’m saying what I’ve said all along- a high usage, poor shooting point guard who doesn’t play defense isn’t ideal to build around. Trade Russ for a more efficient superstar and get a well rounded pg, and this team is better. If you want to provide your list of where Russ ranks among players, I’ll tell you which ones would make us a better team. I know that teams don’t normally trade stars so it’s not going to happen.

This year a bunch are playing better. The last few? Steph, Kawhi, Lebron are the only 3 for sure. He was 4th in poy voting last year and a 1a/1b with cupcake in 2016. That's it.

And if you're using Harden because I know you wi he was .500 two years ago and Houston fans were wanting him gone.

Also if you're using Conley still those Grizzleis teams were better defensively with him on the bench and the Thunder have has elite defenses with Westbrook.

So yes if youbtrafe him for one of those 4 sure I agree.

I’m not sure what you’re saying about Harden.

[bondom34]

I’m saying what I’ve said all along- a high usage, poor shooting point guard who doesn’t play defense isn’t ideal to build around. Trade Russ for a more efficient superstar and get a well rounded pg, and this team is better. If you want to provide your list of where Russ ranks among players, I’ll tell you which ones would make us a better team. I know that teams don’t normally trade stars so it’s not going to happen.

This year a bunch are playing better. The last few? Steph, Kawhi, Lebron are the only 3 for sure. He was 4th in poy voting last year and a 1a/1b with cupcake in 2016. That's it.

And if you're using Harden because I know you wi he was .500 two years ago and Houston fans were wanting him gone.

Also if you're using Conley still those Grizzleis teams were better defensively with him on the bench and the Thunder have has elite defenses with Westbrook.

So yes if youbtrafe him for one of those 4 sure I agree.

I’m not sure what you’re saying about Harden.

That prior to this year Russ has been better and if you're tossing him under the bus for this year remember 2016

[ThunderBolt]

This year a bunch are playing better. The last few? Steph, Kawhi, Lebron are the only 3 for sure. He was 4th in poy voting last year and a 1a/1b with cupcake in 2016. That's it.

And if you're using Harden because I know you wi he was .500 two years ago and Houston fans were wanting him gone.

Also if you're using Conley still those Grizzleis teams were better defensively with him on the bench and the Thunder have has elite defenses with Westbrook.

So yes if youbtrafe him for one of those 4 sure I agree.

I’m not sure what you’re saying about Harden.

That prior to this year Russ has been better and if you're tossing him under the bus for this year remember 2016

I wouldn’t take harden over russ. He’s got many of the same faults that Russ has and he’s passive. Russ is never going to play like he doesnt care about a game, especially a playoff game.

You’re right everyone is flawed. I would trade Russ for Anthony Davis if he didn’t break every game. If you could put Steven Adams personality in Cousins body, I would take him too.

I’m fact I think Russ is a lot like cousins in that he’s great at what he does but I worry that his faults are going to cost us when it really counts. When the playoffs come the analytics go out the door. It comes down to who wins the final play. What I saw from Russ to close out the game last night concerns me, as do games when he shoots 6-21.

[bondom34]

I’m not sure what you’re saying about Harden.

That prior to this year Russ has been better and if you're tossing him under the bus for this year remember 2016

I wouldn’t take harden over russ. He’s got many of the same faults that Russ has and he’s passive. Russ is never going to play like he doesnt care about a game, especially a playoff game.

You’re right everyone is flawed. I would trade Russ for Anthony Davis if he didn’t break every game. If you could put Steven Adams personality in Cousins body, I would take him too.

I’m fact I think Russ is a lot like cousins in that he’s great at what he does but I worry that his faults are going to cost us when it really counts. When the playoffs come the analytics go out the door. It comes down to who wins the final play. What I saw from Russ to close out the game last night concerns me, as do games when he shoots 6-21.

2015 against the Clippers disagrees. Hes never going to be some hyper efficient scoring machine, but if you want him to stop shooting teams don't defend him the same. And if you change that he's not nearly as effective. Also on AD we haven't seen him win a game in the playoffs yet. Great player but he's still not there.

I see a little of Russ in Cousins but Russ doesn't do near as much of the same. To a point where Cousins actively was a clear detriment nd was a reason those teams won 30 games. Russ has a hot head but he knows when to cool it and lock in.

[slick_watts]

I see a little of Russ in Cousins but Russ doesn't do near as much of the same. To a point where Cousins actively was a clear detriment nd was a reason those teams won 30 games. Russ has a hot head but he knows when to cool it and lock in.

i strenuously disagree with that point.

westbrook gets way too much credit for defense the team plays with him in the game because of the rebounding.

[bondom34]

I see a little of Russ in Cousins but Russ doesn't do near as much of the same. To a point where Cousins actively was a clear detriment nd was a reason those teams won 30 games. Russ has a hot head but he knows when to cool it and lock in.

i strenuously disagree with that point.

westbrook gets way too much credit for defense the team plays with him in the game because of the rebounding.

You are free to, but the lineups have largely shown he's not remotely the hindrance he's made to be. Hes not a great defender bit he hasn't tanked lineups either.

[slick_watts]

I see a little of Russ in Cousins but Russ doesn't do near as much of the same. To a point where Cousins actively was a clear detriment nd was a reason those teams won 30 games. Russ has a hot head but he knows when to cool it and lock in.

i strenuously disagree with that point.

westbrook gets way too much credit for defense the team plays with him in the game because of the rebounding.

You are free to, but the lineups have largely shown he's not remotely the hindrance he's made to be. Hes not a great defender bit he hasn't tanked lineups either.

he tends to play with elite defensive players. do you watch the games? paul george and steven adams are sucking wind by the end of the games making up for westbrook's lapses. eye test just disagrees with drpm and dbpm and others that over value his rebounding.

[bondom34]

i strenuously disagree with that point.

westbrook gets way too much credit for defense the team plays with him in the game because of the rebounding.

You are free to, but the lineups have largely shown he's not remotely the hindrance he's made to be. Hes not a great defender bit he hasn't tanked lineups either.

he tends to play with elite defensive players. do you watch the games? paul george and steven adams are sucking wind by the end of the games making up for westbrook's lapses.

So do most high end offensive stars. Harden, Curry, Lillard. And to some extent at least 2 of those guys have been more a detriment.

[slick_watts]

You are free to, but the lineups have largely shown he's not remotely the hindrance he's made to be. Hes not a great defender bit he hasn't tanked lineups either.

he tends to play with elite defensive players. do you watch the games? paul george and steven adams are sucking wind by the end of the games making up for westbrook's lapses.

So do most high end offensive stars. Harden, Curry, Lillard. And to some extent at least 2 of those guys have been more a detriment.

westbrook's definitely better on defense (at least, thru last season) than harden and lillard. i even had westbrook as mvp over harden due to the disparity on the defensive end. he's just getting so much worse, though, while players like harden and lillard make incremental improvements at least. houston has the 4th best defense all of a sudden. chris paul showing harden the ropes? scary, if true.

[bondom34]

he tends to play with elite defensive players. do you watch the games? paul george and steven adams are sucking wind by the end of the games making up for westbrook's lapses.

So do most high end offensive stars. Harden, Curry, Lillard. And to some extent at least 2 of those guys have been more a detriment.

westbrook's definitely better on defense (at least, thru last season) than harden and lillard. i even had westbrook as mvp over harden due to the disparity on the defensive end. he's just getting so much worse, though, while players like harden and lillard make incremental improvements at least. houston has the 4th best defense all of a sudden. chris paul showing harden the ropes? scary, if true.

I honestly haven't watched enough Houston to know. But some of it came when he returned and they added Tucker and Moute. They're a bit better defensively with him on the bench. Similar for Lillard.

But agree with the gist of your post.

[spearsy23]

i strenuously disagree with that point.

westbrook gets way too much credit for defense the team plays with him in the game because of the rebounding.

You are free to, but the lineups have largely shown he's not remotely the hindrance he's made to be. Hes not a great defender bit he hasn't tanked lineups either.

he tends to play with elite defensive players. do you watch the games? paul george and steven adams are sucking wind by the end of the games making up for westbrook's lapses. eye test just disagrees with drpm and dbpm and others that over value his rebounding.

Change the name to Roberson and defense to offense and you make the exact opposite argument.

[slick_watts]

You are free to, but the lineups have largely shown he's not remotely the hindrance he's made to be. Hes not a great defender bit he hasn't tanked lineups either.

he tends to play with elite defensive players. do you watch the games? paul george and steven adams are sucking wind by the end of the games making up for westbrook's lapses. eye test just disagrees with drpm and dbpm and others that over value his rebounding.

Change the name to Roberson and defense to offense and you make the exact opposite argument.

dre isn't a star player making $25mm+. dre sucks on offense on this team sure but he's not expected to be good there. westbrook's paid to be a top 5 player in the nba and he doesn't try on one end of the court while george is playing both ends.