11/24 | G19: Denver Nuggets at Oklahoma City Thunder - 7PM CST

[bondom34]

i'm a russell westbrook fan. that's why it's so hard for me to watch him get embarrassed by the utah jazz or chuck 12 three pointers in a game or lose his man on critical late game possessions. he's wasting once in a generation athletic gifts. james harden and chris paul extract every ounce of their abilities and for the most part apply them with laser like focus. so does lebron. so does kevin durant. and most of the other elite players. westbrook is just so keen on defying his skillset to a perilous degree.

like.. we don't see chris paul posting a guy up 10 times in a game, or james harden shooting sky hooks. westbrook shooting 12 threes in a game is so unconscionable for a player with his skillset. the lack of self-awareness from westbrook is the big difference here. everyone else has flaws, but no flaw is larger than that one on the big stage. and no flaw is as wasteful.

we all know this.

And though I've been ignoring you with this I pretty much agree. The issue is those other players have their own entirely different flaws. I'd argue they are larger, specifically the two examples given. But I digress.

Edit: And spearsy hit the "focus" part. They don't.

[getrichordie]

You're free to, I was listing only recent ones that were particularly egregious. It really didnt take effort, which is kinda bad.

Easy to point out others flaws isn’t it? Take a look at your own, homie. You are so wrapped up in your own views, you aren’t even taking time to consider why you might be wrong and why others might be right.

Views can change you know? I basically use this board as a dumping ground for my views and thoughts so I can bounce those ideas off of others but you honestly make me want to just stop trying to engage in discussion as you love to stoop to condescension when I or others disagree with your views.

I don’t know how many times I have to say this but, context is a thing. Example: when I proposed the idea of Ferguson/Roberson for Smith, I was pretty low on Ferguson and given the uncertainty of Roberson, I thought Smith could come in and provide at least shooting off the bench and save us $ next year. I bounced an idea off the board. Ferguson has since then outplayed my view of him. Lin has since then changed my views as to what level Roberson could return to. That’s called context. That’s called my view changed on that situation.

And again, you aren’t even engaging in discussion as to why Smith might be a good fit for this team. Even Andrew Schlecht (Down to Dunk) agreed that if we could get Smith on the team, that he would be good for us. But alas, Bondom is smarter than me and is right and I am wrong.


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I've owned I'm wrong plenty, so again feel free to point em out.

And you can engage but you have such bizarre views and dont really change most but when you do its not the ones that make sense and its at the drop of a hat. You won't cede ever on Westbrook even after an MVP or Donovan even after mistakes but flip about JR and Roberson after 2 weeks. I'm low on Ferguson now but JR is a negative value contract on that deal and was the second he signed it.

It was a Lebron getting his guy paid deal and since he signed it had a positive BPM once, and 3 times now has been -1.3, -1.7, and -4.1. His last 2 full seasons with Lebron he was a .484 and .534 TS and a negative defender. Last year the Cavs were almost 8 points/100 better with him on the bench and the year before he was about neutral. He's literally a worse version of Korver who's paid more.

I’m sorry, but discussing role players isn’t as simple as looking at BPMs.

Cleveland was an all around **** show last year. Thompson is playing better this year. Shumpert is playing better in Sacramento, too. A change of scenery can do a lot for a player. And fit is a thing too. Kind of like how a healthy Roberson isn’t a good fit for almost every other team.

If Smith did come here, he’d be playing with Noel or Adams rim-protecting. He’d be playing alongside defensive-minded players such as George and Grant who help minimize his weaknesses and the threat of JR on the perimeter maximizes George, Westbrook, Adam and Schroder’s strengths.

Plus, Smith doesn’t have to play for 28 minutes a night like he did in Cleveland. If Smith can play 15 minutes and keep his perimeter game up, that does a lot for our team, [b]in my opinion.[\b]

Furthermore, if Smith can be had by trading Roberson, there is something to be said about getting off of Roberson’s money when we are in the tax whereas Smith is only guaranteed <$4M next year IIRC.

I don’t blame you if you don’t agree. I’m simply saying Smith could be the shooter that could be had for the least. Our defense is doing well enough without Roberson (we are 1st in league) and Smith’s shooting could help open things up for offense.

Again, I will admit, I was wrong to throw Ferguson in that package, but given the uncertainty of Roberson, I thought it might take Ferguson to get off of his money this year and next. I was wrong about the value. I think Smith could be had for cheaper. Not sure if trade is feasible now though.







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[bondom34]

Easy to point out others flaws isn’t it? Take a look at your own, homie. You are so wrapped up in your own views, you aren’t even taking time to consider why you might be wrong and why others might be right.

Views can change you know? I basically use this board as a dumping ground for my views and thoughts so I can bounce those ideas off of others but you honestly make me want to just stop trying to engage in discussion as you love to stoop to condescension when I or others disagree with your views.

I don’t know how many times I have to say this but, context is a thing. Example: when I proposed the idea of Ferguson/Roberson for Smith, I was pretty low on Ferguson and given the uncertainty of Roberson, I thought Smith could come in and provide at least shooting off the bench and save us $ next year. I bounced an idea off the board. Ferguson has since then outplayed my view of him. Lin has since then changed my views as to what level Roberson could return to. That’s called context. That’s called my view changed on that situation.

And again, you aren’t even engaging in discussion as to why Smith might be a good fit for this team. Even Andrew Schlecht (Down to Dunk) agreed that if we could get Smith on the team, that he would be good for us. But alas, Bondom is smarter than me and is right and I am wrong.


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I've owned I'm wrong plenty, so again feel free to point em out.

And you can engage but you have such bizarre views and dont really change most but when you do its not the ones that make sense and its at the drop of a hat. You won't cede ever on Westbrook even after an MVP or Donovan even after mistakes but flip about JR and Roberson after 2 weeks. I'm low on Ferguson now but JR is a negative value contract on that deal and was the second he signed it.

It was a Lebron getting his guy paid deal and since he signed it had a positive BPM once, and 3 times now has been -1.3, -1.7, and -4.1. His last 2 full seasons with Lebron he was a .484 and .534 TS and a negative defender. Last year the Cavs were almost 8 points/100 better with him on the bench and the year before he was about neutral. He's literally a worse version of Korver who's paid more.

I’m sorry, but discussing role players isn’t as simple as looking at BPMs.

Cleveland was an all around **** show last year. Thompson is playing better this year. Shumpert is playing better in Sacramento, too. A change of scenery can do a lot for a player. And fit is a thing too. Kind of like how a healthy Roberson isn’t a good fit for almost every other team.

If Smith did come here, he’d be playing with Noel or Adams rim-protecting. He’d be playing alongside defensive-minded players such as George and Grant who help minimize his weaknesses and the threat of JR on the perimeter maximizes George, Westbrook, Adam and Schroder’s strengths.

Plus, Smith doesn’t have to play for 28 minutes a night like he did in Cleveland. If Smith can play 15 minutes and keep his perimeter game up, that does a lot for our team, [b]in my opinion.[\b]

Furthermore, if Smith can be had by trading Roberson, there is something to be said about getting off of Roberson’s money when we are in the tax whereas Smith is only guaranteed <$4M next year IIRC.

I don’t blame you if you don’t agree. I’m simply saying Smith could be the shooter that could be had for the least. Our defense is doing well enough without Roberson (we are 1st in league) and Smith’s shooting could help open things up for offense.

Again, I will admit, I was wrong to throw Ferguson in that package, but given the uncertainty of Roberson, I thought it might take Ferguson to get off of his money this year and next. I was wrong about the value. I think Smith could be had for cheaper. Not sure if trade is feasible now though.







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Except literally all Smith can do, or has ever done, is shoot. He's Korver, but paid more and you're taking on a bad contract. Roberson's just more valuable in every way imaginable and paying a guy $14M to barely play makes no sense. You're describing him being Abrines.

[getrichordie]

I've owned I'm wrong plenty, so again feel free to point em out.

And you can engage but you have such bizarre views and dont really change most but when you do its not the ones that make sense and its at the drop of a hat. You won't cede ever on Westbrook even after an MVP or Donovan even after mistakes but flip about JR and Roberson after 2 weeks. I'm low on Ferguson now but JR is a negative value contract on that deal and was the second he signed it.

It was a Lebron getting his guy paid deal and since he signed it had a positive BPM once, and 3 times now has been -1.3, -1.7, and -4.1. His last 2 full seasons with Lebron he was a .484 and .534 TS and a negative defender. Last year the Cavs were almost 8 points/100 better with him on the bench and the year before he was about neutral. He's literally a worse version of Korver who's paid more.

I’m sorry, but discussing role players isn’t as simple as looking at BPMs.

Cleveland was an all around **** show last year. Thompson is playing better this year. Shumpert is playing better in Sacramento, too. A change of scenery can do a lot for a player. And fit is a thing too. Kind of like how a healthy Roberson isn’t a good fit for almost every other team.

If Smith did come here, he’d be playing with Noel or Adams rim-protecting. He’d be playing alongside defensive-minded players such as George and Grant who help minimize his weaknesses and the threat of JR on the perimeter maximizes George, Westbrook, Adam and Schroder’s strengths.

Plus, Smith doesn’t have to play for 28 minutes a night like he did in Cleveland. If Smith can play 15 minutes and keep his perimeter game up, that does a lot for our team, [b]in my opinion.[\b]

Furthermore, if Smith can be had by trading Roberson, there is something to be said about getting off of Roberson’s money when we are in the tax whereas Smith is only guaranteed <$4M next year IIRC.

I don’t blame you if you don’t agree. I’m simply saying Smith could be the shooter that could be had for the least. Our defense is doing well enough without Roberson (we are 1st in league) and Smith’s shooting could help open things up for offense.

Again, I will admit, I was wrong to throw Ferguson in that package, but given the uncertainty of Roberson, I thought it might take Ferguson to get off of his money this year and next. I was wrong about the value. I think Smith could be had for cheaper. Not sure if trade is feasible now though.







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Except literally all Smith can do, or has ever done, is shoot. He's Korver, but paid more and you're taking on a bad contract. Roberson's just more valuable in every way imaginable and paying a guy $14M to barely play makes no sense. You're describing him being Abrines.

Let’s say your right and Smith is just another Abrines. That’s a bad thing? We want more shooting on the floor, right? And we save money.

Show me a Korver trade that works and gives incentive to CLE. And for all of Smith’s warts, Korver is significantly worse defensively. Smith also runs the floor better than Korver can.


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[bondom34]

I’m sorry, but discussing role players isn’t as simple as looking at BPMs.

Cleveland was an all around **** show last year. Thompson is playing better this year. Shumpert is playing better in Sacramento, too. A change of scenery can do a lot for a player. And fit is a thing too. Kind of like how a healthy Roberson isn’t a good fit for almost every other team.

If Smith did come here, he’d be playing with Noel or Adams rim-protecting. He’d be playing alongside defensive-minded players such as George and Grant who help minimize his weaknesses and the threat of JR on the perimeter maximizes George, Westbrook, Adam and Schroder’s strengths.

Plus, Smith doesn’t have to play for 28 minutes a night like he did in Cleveland. If Smith can play 15 minutes and keep his perimeter game up, that does a lot for our team, [b]in my opinion.[\b]

Furthermore, if Smith can be had by trading Roberson, there is something to be said about getting off of Roberson’s money when we are in the tax whereas Smith is only guaranteed <$4M next year IIRC.

I don’t blame you if you don’t agree. I’m simply saying Smith could be the shooter that could be had for the least. Our defense is doing well enough without Roberson (we are 1st in league) and Smith’s shooting could help open things up for offense.

Again, I will admit, I was wrong to throw Ferguson in that package, but given the uncertainty of Roberson, I thought it might take Ferguson to get off of his money this year and next. I was wrong about the value. I think Smith could be had for cheaper. Not sure if trade is feasible now though.







Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Except literally all Smith can do, or has ever done, is shoot. He's Korver, but paid more and you're taking on a bad contract. Roberson's just more valuable in every way imaginable and paying a guy $14M to barely play makes no sense. You're describing him being Abrines.

Let’s say your right and Smith is just another Abrines. That’s a bad thing? We want more shooting on the floor, right? And we save money.

Show me a Korver trade that works and gives incentive to CLE. And for all of Smith’s warts, Korver is significantly worse defensively. Smith also runs the floor better than Korver can.


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Except Korver's not worse defensively, and can run the floor fine. He's not a worse defender for sure.

Patterson, Nader, and a 2nd works for salary. And they're not getting much more than that.

[spearsy23]

james harden and chris paul extract every ounce of their abilities and for the most part apply them with laser like focus.

This has obviously not been true throughout their careers as an entirety.

[DoubleJ13]

Russ taking all those 3s really covered up that the whole team couldn't make anything & didn't play defense the whole first half. Just one of those games shooting wise & I'll give them the 5 games in 8 nights with the wing rotation being all over the place catching up with them.

Game was the perfect storm of Russ taking a bunch of stupid 3s. He drove early & couldn't get the calls he wanted, they got down 25 points, & he was tired & still doesn't fully have his legs under him.

[anthony00]

slickwatts and getrich or die are trolls don't feed them. Harden chocked the game away yesterday but nobody made a thread on that hmmmmmmm i wonder why.

[spearsy23]

slickwatts and getrich or die are trolls don't feed them. Harden chocked the game away yesterday but nobody made a thread on that hmmmmmmm i wonder why.

Because this is the OKC board? It would be really weird if we had a thread every time any other team did something bad.

[anthony00]

slickwatts and getrich or die are trolls don't feed them. Harden chocked the game away yesterday but nobody made a thread on that hmmmmmmm i wonder why.

Because this is the OKC board? It would be really weird if we had a thread sometime any other team did something bad.

nah i just think they are trolls even on the gameboard they make troll posts

[getrichordie]

slickwatts and getrich or die are trolls don't feed them. Harden chocked the game away yesterday but nobody made a thread on that hmmmmmmm i wonder why.

Because this is the OKC board? It would be really weird if we had a thread sometime any other team did something bad.

nah i just think they are trolls even on the gameboard they make troll posts

I’m really sorry you feel that way, man. It is certainly not my intent to sow discord on these forums. I just happen to have very differing viewpoints on things. I don’t expect everyone to understand or agree with those viewpoints, but please, can we not resort to name calling?


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[1bigfan13]

i'm a russell westbrook fan. that's why it's so hard for me to watch him get embarrassed by the utah jazz or chuck 12 three pointers in a game or lose his man on critical late game possessions. he's wasting once in a generation athletic gifts. james harden and chris paul extract every ounce of their abilities and for the most part apply them with laser like focus. so does lebron. so does kevin durant. and most of the other elite players. westbrook is just so keen on defying his skillset to a perilous degree.

like.. we don't see chris paul posting a guy up 10 times in a game, or james harden shooting sky hooks. westbrook shooting 12 threes in a game is so unconscionable for a player with his skillset. the lack of self-awareness from westbrook is the big difference here. everyone else has flaws, but no flaw is larger than that one on the big stage. and no flaw is as wasteful.

we all know this.

Lack of self-awareness is Westbrook's single biggest flaw, IMO.

There's a subtle line between being confident in your abilities and having enough self-awareness to understand your limitations, and that's where Westbrook's problems lie. It's not the fact that he has a shaky jumper. It's that he's overly confident in his ability to hit long jump shots.

Plenty of players have thrived in this league without having a consistent 3 point shot.....Dwyane Wade for instance. But those players generally have the self-awareness and restraint to not impulsively shoot bad shots. For as much crap as Ben Simmons takes for not having a good jump shot, I actually give him a lot of credit for having the restraint and self-awareness to play to his strengths. Even though damn near every wing player in today's game are extending their range out to the 3 point line, Simmons isn't wasting possessions chucking up shots from 25 feet out that he has very little chance of hitting. I wish Westbrook had that kind of mental restraint. He doesn't need to quit shooting them cold turkey, but he should only be shooting 2 or 3 a game at most....and only when wide open or in late clock situations.