12/28 | G34: Oklahoma City Thunder at Phoenix Suns - 8PM CST

[ThunderBolt]

Schroder was absolutely horrible the first three quarters. He finally threw a decent lob to Noel and follows it up with one that goes completely between two players. Stupid plays like that are how guys get injured.

The discrepancy between Adams and Noel’s minutes has to change. I don’t get what Billy is doing. Adams just can’t handle this workload all season long.

I was actually pleased in the short stint before Ferguson went out. He attacked the basket and had a few nice defensive possessions. I also like the baby hook from Diallo.

Despite Naders performance I thought he looked extremely unsure of himself early. He jumped to pass and almost got caught in no mans land. I thought he got away with a walk once. He played more comfortable in the second half. He looks kind of slow to me. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t really expect a repeat performance.

[CROklahoma]

Nader looked really good for a end of the bench player.

[Pillendreher]

Watching th replay now because I can’t sleep. We’ve completely forgotten how to defend the pick and roll. Adams seems to be trying to trap out on the perimeter for some reason.

This is a problem. I don't know why they're doing that, but it forces the rest of the team to defend 3 vs 4. You can't just put that big of a responsibility to Grant or whoever making the rotation to the guy rolling to the rim. You can show hard but you don't need Adams to be that far out. It just enables the opposing teams to take its pick of the roll-man or guys on the perimeter.

[Old Man Game]

Nader also made Booker really work tonight.

He also didn’t get an obvious rebound because Russ was right next to him. He literally let it hit the ground. He is the perfect Thunder player

I'm actually going to stick with my prognosis that he sucks unless and until he proves he can hit shots in more than 1 game. Heck, Perry Jones had 30 points in an NBA game for this team once.

If you haven’t noticed my comments have a significant amount of sarcasm in them tonight

Sorry. I don't read the whole thread usually. Just the last couple. My apologies if I intimated that you genuinely believed this D Leaguer was a find, sir.

[spearsy23]

This is a problem. I don't know why they're doing that, but it forces the rest of the team to defend 3 vs 4. You can't just put that big of a responsibility to Grant or whoever making the rotation to the guy rolling to the rim. You can show hard but you don't need Adams to be that far out. It just enables the opposing teams to take its pick of the roll-man or guys on the perimeter.

I thought this was the biggest difference between last year's defensive scheme and this year. I don't see any reason we'd revert to this.

[Pillendreher]

This is a problem. I don't know why they're doing that, but it forces the rest of the team to defend 3 vs 4. You can't just put that big of a responsibility to Grant or whoever making the rotation to the guy rolling to the rim. You can show hard but you don't need Adams to be that far out. It just enables the opposing teams to take its pick of the roll-man or guys on the perimeter.

I thought this was the biggest difference between last year's defensive scheme and this year. I don't see any reason we'd revert to this.

I actually thought the biggest difference was having Adams defend closer to the rim. I know we've been doing this to defend the PnR, but not to this extent.

Bobby Chancellor did a piece on that in November:

https://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2018/11/13/18082624/last-chance-pick-and-roll-defense-thunder



This is what the defense should look like imo. There's no use in forcing the pass if the whole thing is dependent on rotations happening before the offense even attacks. If we let Adams run out all the way to the 3pt line and basically surrender the space between the perimeter and the paint while having two players defend the guy not even part of the play after the pass (!), we're either giving up an attempt right at the basket or a relatively open 3.

[ThunderBolt]

The pick and roll defense is the kind of stuff I get so annoyed with the local media for not asking about. This is an obvious change from what we have been doing. Some idiot like myself shouldn't be able to notice this over multiple games without the media addressing it.

Also, what the heck is going on with Abrines? You don't normally get stomach bugs/flue twice so close together. Even if the the Thunder don't answer, ask the question, "What's wrong with alex? Is this chronic condition? When can we expect him back?"

[Old Man Game]

The pick and roll defense is the kind of stuff I get so annoyed with the local media for not asking about. This is an obvious change from what we have been doing. Some idiot like myself shouldn't be able to notice this over multiple games without the media addressing it.

Also, what the heck is going on with Abrines? You don't normally get the stomach bug back to back. Even if the the Thunder don't answer, ask the question, "What's wrong with alex? Is this chronic condition? When can we expect him back?"

GROD and I were talking about him having some sort of chronic digestive issue in the season thread (Crohn's, celiac, Ulcerative Colitis, etc.) but when Ferg had to the leave the game from barfing or whatever it was I was heartened that maybe its just a coincidence and maybe some sort of bug is making its way around the Thunder and staff instead of a chronic thing that Abrines will have to deal with forever/be career threatening.

DO agree our local media is totally incompetent though. This is why is was such a loss when Fred Katz left town. He'd pick up those sorts of Xs and Os things and make stories out of them.

[spearsy23]

This is a problem. I don't know why they're doing that, but it forces the rest of the team to defend 3 vs 4. You can't just put that big of a responsibility to Grant or whoever making the rotation to the guy rolling to the rim. You can show hard but you don't need Adams to be that far out. It just enables the opposing teams to take its pick of the roll-man or guys on the perimeter.

I thought this was the biggest difference between last year's defensive scheme and this year. I don't see any reason we'd revert to this.

I actually thought the biggest difference was having Adams defend closer to the rim. I know we've been doing this to defend the PnR, but not to this extent.

I meant last year this is how we were playing, pulling Steven out above the three point line. Earlier in the year it wasn't quite drop coverage, but he was hedging less aggressively and in better position to get back to the paint. I don't understand why we'd revert to last season's when the results were so drastically different.

[getrichordie]

Lol @ saying we don’t know how to defend the P&R. Has it not been working? Have we not had the best defense in the league?

I think we are over-analyzing too much here and we just need to look at the results.


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[RalphSampsonJr]

Yea that trapping stuff is weird. Its like Billy just decides certain guys need it done to them.
Adams is great at getting his hands in passing lanes but if a full blown trap is done then it eliminates that and forces 3 other players to rotate which okc never does well.

[Pillendreher]

Lol @ saying we don’t know how to defend the P&R. Has it not been working? Have we not had the best defense in the league?

I think we are over-analyzing too much here and we just need to look at the results.

There's no "hard cap" when it comes to defending. If you can avoid giving up buckets, you do that, no matter how good you already are.

[RalphSampsonJr]

Lol @ saying we don’t know how to defend the P&R. Has it not been working? Have we not had the best defense in the league?

I think we are over-analyzing too much here and we just need to look at the results.

There's no "hard cap" when it comes to defending. If you can avoid giving up buckets, you do that, no matter how good you already are.

He doesnt want to "over analyze" defensive schemes.. but has no problem over analyzing make believe trades!

[getrichordie]

Lol @ saying we don’t know how to defend the P&R. Has it not been working? Have we not had the best defense in the league?

I think we are over-analyzing too much here and we just need to look at the results.

There's no "hard cap" when it comes to defending. If you can avoid giving up buckets, you do that, no matter how good you already are.

While I agree with you, I think what is being overlooked is Donovan is trying to get the team used to rotating not only correctly, but faster because that’s what we will need in the playoffs. We might not need it in regular season games, but this team is playoff bound and it is the correct decision to teach the team how to rotate “at a high level.”

It’s unreasonable to expect perfection, though we can get closer. I suspect that given our current personnel that this is the defense that makes the most sense against the better teams in the league.

I’m sure that as we get deeper into the schedule and the team has “capped out” on their ability to rotate, we will throw different “coverages” at offenses depending on matchups.


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[slick_watts]

lots of great defensive teams have blitzed pnr even more aggressively than we do (lebron heat), but we don't always do it this way either. we also show, or even do the tim duncan show sometimes where adams will stick an arm out to contact the handler. these are generally high risk, high reward defensive styles that leverage our personnel. more conservative styles of pnr defense will probably not work as well with our personnel, which seems to get better the more active they can be especially in passing lanes.

adams and westbrook do tend to get a bit over aggressive sometimes. you do not want pressure on the ball to the point where you're trying to get on ball steals, you just want to force difficult passes and decisions which the thunder have for the most part. we're not a team that is going to have adams dropping into the paint on pnr like roy hibbert. that's going to expose westbrook big time.

the idea that the thunder haven't been defending this way since the beginning of the year is also odd. this is the first houston possession from their game against them on november 8th. notice adams showing on the pnr, harden attempting a difficult pass, and the rockets turning it over. and grant would have been able to contest capela had the pass gotten there.

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

there are times we over extend. when they're not perfect. and when the opponent will just make a great pass and we give up a dunk. but the main premise is a solid one considering our team's strengths on the wings, and russell westbrook's inability to defend pnr on the ball consistently without the help.

[getrichordie]

lots of great defensive teams have blitzed pnr even more aggressively than we do (lebron heat), but we don't always do it this way either. we also show, or even do the tim duncan show sometimes where adams will stick an arm out to contact the handler. these are generally high risk, high reward defensive styles that leverage our personnel. more conservative styles of pnr defense will probably not work as well with our personnel, which seems to get better the more active they can be especially in passing lanes.

adams and westbrook do tend to get a bit over aggressive sometimes. you do not want pressure on the ball to the point where you're trying to get on ball steals, you just want to force difficult passes and decisions which the thunder have for the most part. we're not a team that is going to have adams dropping into the paint on pnr like roy hibbert. that's going to expose westbrook big time.

the idea that the thunder haven't been defending this way since the beginning of the year is also odd. this is the first houston possession from their game against them on november 8th. notice adams showing on the pnr, harden attempting a difficult pass, and the rockets turning it over. and grant would have been able to contest capela had the pass gotten there.

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

there are times we over extend. when they're not perfect. and when the opponent will just make a great pass and we give up a dunk. but the main premise is a solid one considering our team's strengths on the wings, and russell westbrook's inability to defend pnr on the ball consistently without the help.

Exactly. It’s a systemic thing based on personnel and I expect us to make moves and bring in players that fit the defensive system Donovan has been able to install.


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[getrichordie]

Lol @ saying we don’t know how to defend the P&R. Has it not been working? Have we not had the best defense in the league?

I think we are over-analyzing too much here and we just need to look at the results.

There's no "hard cap" when it comes to defending. If you can avoid giving up buckets, you do that, no matter how good you already are.

He doesnt want to "over analyze" defensive schemes.. but has no problem over analyzing make believe trades!

Apples and oranges my friend. Apples and oranges...


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