Game 27: Oklahoma City Thunder (12-14) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (10-17) - 8:00 PM ET

[ducler]

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[spearsy23]

I'm pretty sure Chris Paul is now setting out everybody's clothes for them before he tucks them in at night.

[Old Man Game]

Pretty clear that Paul, Schroeder et al. are not on board with tanking. Schroeder even mentioned they're pushing for the playoffs in the post game interview. Have to believe that guys like that have too much pride to just pack it in.

[ThunderBolt]

Someone is going to trade for Dennis. Maybe we even get lucky and they take Ferguson too.

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

[Pillendreher]

Pretty clear that Paul, Schroeder et al. are not on board with tanking. Schroeder even mentioned they're pushing for the playoffs in the post game interview. Have to believe that guys like that have too much pride to just pack it in.

I've often wandered about that. Who's going to tell players to their faces "Let's go out and lose as much as possible". That's basically like saying "Thanks for showing up, but it doesn't matter".

[spearsy23]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

[Galloisdaman]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

They would really hurt the team to do that. They might sit guys at bad times if that is their goal. The margin between winning and losing is not large enough to overcome sitting guys at bad times. I do not think the goal is to lose right now. I think winning can only help guys values. Guys like Paul, Schroeder, Gallo, etc are not going to quit. They are playing to win. These comebacks have shown some real heart. I'm sure many fans like and appreciate that.

[slick_watts]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

maybe just don't draft players who skip a year of professional basketball to work for a shoe company. that's always been my motto.

[ThunderBolt]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

It’s not so much a knock against Bazley as a credit to Clarke who has been really good. As for Bazley, not ever player develops. It’s especially more difficult when the players drafted have no skills other than “athlete”. Even if Bazley develops, what is his realistic ceiling? If he develops into the player that Clarke looks to be right now, I’m sure the thunder and others would consider it a success.

Yes Clarke is older but at least he provides value on his rookie contract. Older rookies still can develop even if it’s not as much of a leap. The problem is that even if players like Bazley develop, you get so little value from their rookie contracts because they suck the whole time. Value is not an issue right now since we are rebuilding but when you consider Bazley was taken when Sam thought Russ and PG were coming back, it’s more of a head scratcher.

I think we’re so used to sam’s style of pick that we assume that all rookies have to suck for most of their rookie contract. That doesn’t have to be true all of the time. I’m not saying Bazley can’t develop into a nice player but it’s gets frustrating drifting the the kid who just started shaving and being so averse to older rookies who can still be really good in the nba. I hope Bazley becomes a great player.

I hoped and still do hope Ferguson develops into a good player. Right now we’re in year three and he’s still lacking skills and weights about as much as I do but I’m a foot shorter. With guys like Ferguson, he’s still so young that now the organization has to make a decision on him for a contract when he is still developing. He’ll get his second nba contract and still be younger than Clarke. Is that a good thing? I’m not sure. You hate to let a player like him walk but I don’t think you can pay him very much either. Anyways, that’s kind of a rant but I’m ready for one of sam’s later draft picks to work out.

[ThunderBolt]

Pretty clear that Paul, Schroeder et al. are not on board with tanking. Schroeder even mentioned they're pushing for the playoffs in the post game interview. Have to believe that guys like that have too much pride to just pack it in.

I've often wandered about that. Who's going to tell players to their faces "Let's go out and lose as much as possible". That's basically like saying "Thanks for showing up, but it doesn't matter".

I’ve never been a fan of that philosophy. Proper tanking means you get rid of old winning vets and let your young guys play. Creating a culture of intentionally losing is toxic, imo.

[ThunderBolt]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

They would really hurt the team to do that. They might sit guys at bad times if that is their goal. The margin between winning and losing is not large enough to overcome sitting guys at bad times. I do not think the goal is to lose right now. I think winning can only help guys values. Guys like Paul, Schroeder, Gallo, etc are not going to quit. They are playing to win. These comebacks have shown some real heart. I'm sure many fans like and appreciate that.

For better or worse,The thunder have a history of giving minutes to young guys that should probably be in the g-league.

[Galloisdaman]

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

They would really hurt the team to do that. They might sit guys at bad times if that is their goal. The margin between winning and losing is not large enough to overcome sitting guys at bad times. I do not think the goal is to lose right now. I think winning can only help guys values. Guys like Paul, Schroeder, Gallo, etc are not going to quit. They are playing to win. These comebacks have shown some real heart. I'm sure many fans like and appreciate that.

For better or worse,The thunder have a history of giving minutes to young guys that should probably be in the g-league.

I think some fans may really like that but that is a bit unusual. I have heard a pro player (not on the Thunder) mention (a few years ago) that their league is not a developmental league.

[spearsy23]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

maybe just don't draft players who skip a year of professional basketball to work for a shoe company. that's always been my motto.

That motto will either have a 100% or 0% success rate.

[spearsy23]

The trade down for Bazley isn’t looking like sams best move as Clarke goes off for 27.

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

It’s not so much a knock against Bazley as a credit to Clarke who has been really good. As for Bazley, not ever player develops. It’s especially more difficult when the players drafted have no skills other than “athlete”. Even if Bazley develops, what is his realistic ceiling? If he develops into the player that Clarke looks to be right now, I’m sure the thunder and others would consider it a success.

Yes Clarke is older but at least he provides value on his rookie contract. Older rookies still can develop even if it’s not as much of a leap. The problem is that even if players like Bazley develop, you get so little value from their rookie contracts because they suck the whole time. Value is not an issue right now since we are rebuilding but when you consider Bazley was taken when Sam thought Russ and PG were coming back, it’s more of a head scratcher.

I think we’re so used to sam’s style of pick that we assume that all rookies have to suck for most of their rookie contract. That doesn’t have to be true all of the time. I’m not saying Bazley can’t develop into a nice player but it’s gets frustrating drifting the the kid who just started shaving and being so averse to older rookies who can still be really good in the nba. I hope Bazley becomes a great player.

I hoped and still do hope Ferguson develops into a good player. Right now we’re in year three and he’s still lacking skills and weights about as much as I do but I’m a foot shorter. With guys like Ferguson, he’s still so young that now the organization has to make a decision on him for a contract when he is still developing. He’ll get his second nba contract and still be younger than Clarke. Is that a good thing? I’m not sure. You hate to let a player like him walk but I don’t think you can pay him very much either. Anyways, that’s kind of a rant but I’m ready for one of sam’s later draft picks to work out.

Bazley was always boom or bust, and boom or bust always has a greater chance of busting.

But the reality is that whatever Clarke is today/ tomorrow/next year/2 years from now isn't really that important. Bazley being a good pick or not is entirely based on what he is in year 4 and if he gets a 2nd contract. If you're giving the move a fair shake it's way too early to draw any conclusion or even make a projection.

Plus, let's say clarke IS good-ish long term, does that really help us in any way? Good-ish players for a rebuilding team are just enough keep you out of the Durant area.

[Galloisdaman]

You have a point about judging players too soon. I think Brandon Jennings scored 52 against Curry and the Warriors as a rookie.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

We drafting guys for what they do in games 1-20 now?

As soon as the season starts people forget what development entails.

It’s not so much a knock against Bazley as a credit to Clarke who has been really good. As for Bazley, not ever player develops. It’s especially more difficult when the players drafted have no skills other than “athlete”. Even if Bazley develops, what is his realistic ceiling? If he develops into the player that Clarke looks to be right now, I’m sure the thunder and others would consider it a success.

Yes Clarke is older but at least he provides value on his rookie contract. Older rookies still can develop even if it’s not as much of a leap. The problem is that even if players like Bazley develop, you get so little value from their rookie contracts because they suck the whole time. Value is not an issue right now since we are rebuilding but when you consider Bazley was taken when Sam thought Russ and PG were coming back, it’s more of a head scratcher.

I think we’re so used to sam’s style of pick that we assume that all rookies have to suck for most of their rookie contract. That doesn’t have to be true all of the time. I’m not saying Bazley can’t develop into a nice player but it’s gets frustrating drifting the the kid who just started shaving and being so averse to older rookies who can still be really good in the nba. I hope Bazley becomes a great player.

I hoped and still do hope Ferguson develops into a good player. Right now we’re in year three and he’s still lacking skills and weights about as much as I do but I’m a foot shorter. With guys like Ferguson, he’s still so young that now the organization has to make a decision on him for a contract when he is still developing. He’ll get his second nba contract and still be younger than Clarke. Is that a good thing? I’m not sure. You hate to let a player like him walk but I don’t think you can pay him very much either. Anyways, that’s kind of a rant but I’m ready for one of sam’s later draft picks to work out.

Bazley was always boom or bust, and boom or bust always has a greater chance of busting.

But the reality is that whatever Clarke is today/ tomorrow/next year/2 years from now isn't really that important. Bazley being a good pick or not is entirely based on what he is in year 4 and if he gets a 2nd contract. If you're giving the move a fair shake it's way too early to draw any conclusion or even make a projection.

Plus, let's say clarke IS good-ish long term, does that really help us in any way? Good-ish players for a rebuilding team are just enough keep you out of the Durant area.

I think we have a ways to go before a guy like Clarke prevents a team from tanking. Memphis still sucks pretty bad and Clarke is probably the third best proscpect in their team. Gallo and Cp3 are what’s doing that.

Also, why is bazley boom or bust? Why can’t he be something in between?


Realistically presti needs to get all star level talent within the next three years regardless of what happens. If it takes longer than that, it’s going to get ugly.

[ThunderBolt]

You have a point about judging players too soon. I think Brandon Jennings scored 52 against Curry and the Warriors as a rookie.

I don’t disagree but I don’t think anyone is making a one game decision. At least I’m not in my Clarke/Bazley comparison. Clarke has been good all year.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Also, why is bazley boom or bust? Why can’t he be something in between?

Realistically presti needs to get all star level talent within the next three years regardless of what happens. If it takes longer than that, it’s going to get ugly.

Bazley was considered boom or bust because he took an unconventional path. It also depend on how you are defining boom or bust. Bazley has to develop a shot. He has an interesting combination of skills, but he could easily end up closer to Andre Roberson than SGA and some people would consider that a bust. This is basically a wasted year. CP3 will teach the kids what he can, but he also has to do his job. Until there is a competent coaching staff to help the kids develop OKC is just wasting time, potential and money.

I've warmed up some to Bazley. I see the potential. We'll see if he can get where he needs to be. If Bazley and Diallo can learn to shoot as their other skills develop they could be very good role players, at a minimum.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

Also, why is bazley boom or bust? Why can’t he be something in between?

Realistically presti needs to get all star level talent within the next three years regardless of what happens. If it takes longer than that, it’s going to get ugly.

Bazley was considered boom or bust because he took an unconventional path. It also depend on how you are defining boom or bust. Bazley has to develop a shot. He has an interesting combination of skills, but he could easily end up closer to Andre Roberson than SGA and some people would consider that a bust. This is basically a wasted year. CP3 will teach the kids what he can, but he also has to do his job. Until there is a competent coaching staff to help the kids develop OKC is just wasting time, potential and money.

I've warmed up some to Bazley. I see the potential. We'll see if he can get where he needs to be. If Bazley and Diallo can learn to shoot as their other skills develop they could be very good role players, at a minimum.

He’s better than I expected on the defensive end. He does a good job staying on his feet and not falling for pump fakes. His offensive game reminds me a lot of grants first year in okc although he’s a better ball handler.

[Galloisdaman]

You have a point about judging players too soon. I think Brandon Jennings scored 52 against Curry and the Warriors as a rookie.

I don’t disagree but I don’t think anyone is making a one game decision. At least I’m not in my Clarke/Bazley comparison. Clarke has been good all year.

I was just commenting in general not about those 2 players in your post. I know very little about Clarke and Balzey as players.