2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion

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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#181 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:27 am

Poku > Jokic
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#182 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:29 am

Giddey passing skill is so great that he will have a positive effect on the team success even on a bad night.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#183 » by retrobro90 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:39 am

I think every great team has multiple guys that can handle and create. The diminishing returns thing with guys who share skillsets is kind of a fallacy imo. When it doesn't work it's normally because guys share an inability; not an ability (i.e. two non shooters or non-defenders etc etc)
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#184 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:46 am

Oh well that was a pretty good night. Another great performance from Giddey. Mann showing some confidence. Bazley was great.

Poku and Maledon struggling in those first games though...
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#185 » by bbms » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:54 am

Thunder have played double and triple PG sets to great success with Shai. I don't think there'll be chemistry problems with Giddey unless Giddey can't play off the ball, which is Giddey and Daigneault's problem to solve. Given how efficient SGA was last season, his usage needs to go up, rather than down this season.

This Wiggins guy keeps popping at my screen.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#186 » by bondom34 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:41 am

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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#187 » by kdthunderup » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:48 am

If he can improve his shot (more fluid with a quicker release) and tighten that handle a bit he will be a crazy good player.

I don't know why but he strikes me as the type of guy that will be able to easily improves these things and not struggle like some of our other projects. Both his shot and handle aren't broken and should be able to be refined.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#188 » by DaBolden76 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:56 am

kdthunderup wrote:If he can improve his shot (more fluid with a quicker release) and tighten that handle a bit he will be a crazy good player.

I don't know why but he strikes me as the type of guy that will be able to easily improves these things and not struggle like some of our other projects. Both his shot and handle aren't broken and should be able to be refined.

Correct! He massively improved throughout his NBL season last year. I can’t see no different for this season. From reports in Australia he has high work ethic and would always work on his deficiencies.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#189 » by jake_swivel » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:26 pm

I know this isn’t an original thought, but it’s going be so difficult to develop players over the next 5 years with the number of draft picks already on the docket. This summer and onward they’ve got to be prioritizing cashing in like 5 picks and some young guys for a disgruntled star, right? Otherwise you just have to start letting assets go for nothing. You have to start thinking of these contracts and picks almost like trade exceptions. Poof they’re gone. It’s another reason why the rockets/sengun trade is so annoying. Do we need more mediocre picks? And this is the perfect time and roster to develop a big.

But you also don’t want to pull the trigger too soon on a big trade that makes you better because you lose the value of a tank season. Hopefully things line up timewise where a big name who is a good fit (both schematically and willing to play in okc) becomes available in the next two years, otherwise your asset values are gonna start falling off a cliff. Can’t develop them and they can’t show out enough to be worth something in trades.

Like dadou mentioned, Kendrick’s value probably won’t ever be higher than it is right now. And that’s gonna be a theme for the next half decade unless you consolidate. Maybe even consolidate twice. And the trades are gonna be hard because all the picks most likely project as mid-rounders.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#190 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:48 pm

jake_swivel wrote:I know this isn’t an original thought, but it’s going be so difficult to develop players over the next 5 years with the number of draft picks already on the docket. This summer and onward they’ve got to be prioritizing cashing in like 5 picks and some young guys for a disgruntled star, right? Otherwise you just have to start letting assets go for nothing. You have to start thinking of these contracts and picks almost like trade exceptions. Poof they’re gone. It’s another reason why the rockets/sengun trade is so annoying. Do we need more mediocre picks? And this is the perfect time and roster to develop a big.

But you also don’t want to pull the trigger too soon on a big trade that makes you better because you lose the value of a tank season. Hopefully things line up timewise where a big name who is a good fit (both schematically and willing to play in okc) becomes available in the next two years, otherwise your asset values are gonna start falling off a cliff. Can’t develop them and they can’t show out enough to be worth something in trades.

Like dadou mentioned, Kendrick’s value probably won’t ever be higher than it is right now. And that’s gonna be a theme for the next half decade unless you consolidate. Maybe even consolidate twice. And the trades are gonna be hard because all the picks most likely project as mid-rounders.


Yeah we have so much playing time to develop a big right now....I still don't get it :(

I still think we can wait another season and draft 3 young prospects in 2022 but our FO needs to make some fast decisions on who to keep moving forward. I like Ty Jerome but I'm not sure I want to give him so much playing time...same for Roby but I know most will disagree.

We have so many picks that we may have to give up on some prospects sooner rather than later. We already started doing that to some extent by giving up on Svi, Hoard, Diallo but probably gonna need to trade some better prospects.

I don't think we will trade for a star next season except if Giddey and/or SGA are overperforming big time.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#191 » by jake_swivel » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:57 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:I like Ty Jerome but I'm not sure I want to give him so much playing time...same for Roby but I know most will disagree.

We have so many picks that we may have to give up on some prospects sooner rather than later. We already started doing that to some extent by giving up on Svi, Hoard, Diallo but probably gonna need to trade some better prospects.

I don't think we will trade for a star next season except if Giddey and/or SGA are overperforming big time.


Hami is also a good example. We got half a season of Svi for him. And I like Ty as well, but can’t see him getting on the court enough to improve his value, which is probably a 2nd rounder now, which is something we can’t afford to take.

I also don’t think Shai will be cool tanking for 2 more years. I wouldn’t if I was him.

My early prediction is we end up with KAT in next year and a half. I don’t love it, but it makes sense.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#192 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:42 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:I like Ty Jerome but I'm not sure I want to give him so much playing time...same for Roby but I know most will disagree.

We have so many picks that we may have to give up on some prospects sooner rather than later. We already started doing that to some extent by giving up on Svi, Hoard, Diallo but probably gonna need to trade some better prospects.

I don't think we will trade for a star next season except if Giddey and/or SGA are overperforming big time.


Hami is also a good example. We got half a season of Svi for him. And I like Ty as well, but can’t see him getting on the court enough to improve his value, which is probably a 2nd rounder now, which is something we can’t afford to take.

I also don’t think Shai will be cool tanking for 2 more years. I wouldn’t if I was him.

My early prediction is we end up with KAT in next year and a half. I don’t love it, but it makes sense.


I think Ty should be a keeper. He brings a skill that you always need in a bench guy, shooting. With SGA and Giddey handling the rock most of the time (One or the other should always be on the floor) a off ball shooter like Ty who can also handle if needed is more valuable than someone like Theo IMO, but age might win out. I just have not seen an above average trait in Maledon so far, something that shows he fits as the off ball guard next to SGA or Josh.

I agree that 2 years of tanking is something that would rub SGA the wrong way. Ideally you luck out and get Chet in 2022, then pay for a rim protecting big man. I think stealing Nurkic from my team would be smart for OKC, he is a great defender who brings toughness and a excellent locker room presence (He is BFF w/ Dame, loved by everyone on the team, etc).

Roll into 22/23 with:

G - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander / Ty Jerome / Theo Maledon
G - Lou Dort / Tre Mann / Aaron Wiggins
F - Josh Giddey / Darius Bazely / Vit Krejic
F - Chet Holmgren / Aleksej Pokusevski / Darius Bazely
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Isaiah Roby / FRP
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#193 » by slick_watts » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:36 pm

giddey clearly has some talent with the ball in his hands. i'm dubious on his scoring success in the preseason especially that jump shot which looks ugly as hell. i'm surprised by how physical he has played. he needs to learn how to set screens and do other things off the ball. with his size he can be a screener, maybe even use him in short roll situations. he looks very uncomfortable setting screens or doing anything really without the ball. i think he'll be bad defensively for awhile.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#194 » by jake_swivel » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:04 pm

slick_watts wrote:giddey clearly has some talent with the ball in his hands. i'm dubious on his scoring success in the preseason especially that jump shot which looks ugly as hell.


I’ve been noticing that tons of jump shots in the league are looking different. I don’t even know how to describe it. Kinda push shots, almost. And then you have trae and steph with shooting almost from the waist. I think there is an evolution of the jumpshot going on where the Ray Allen/Michael Jordan pretty-looking jumpshot is being replaced by different shot theories. And given the percentage hike over the last decade, I’m inclined not to judge shots by how aesthetically pleasing they are.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#195 » by slick_watts » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:32 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
slick_watts wrote:giddey clearly has some talent with the ball in his hands. i'm dubious on his scoring success in the preseason especially that jump shot which looks ugly as hell.


I’ve been noticing that tons of jump shots in the league are looking different. I don’t even know how to describe it. Kinda push shots, almost. And then you have trae and steph with shooting almost from the waist. I think there is an evolution of the jumpshot going on where the Ray Allen/Michael Jordan pretty-looking jumpshot is being replaced by different shot theories. And given the percentage hike over the last decade, I’m inclined not to judge shots by how aesthetically pleasing they are.


having an ugly or unorthodox shooting form does not preclude becoming a capable shooter. kevin martin for example. giddey's shooting form reminds me of dennis schroder. it's not an easily reproducible motion especially with the lower body. and i think that's always been the issue with schoder's shooting.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#196 » by jake_swivel » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:37 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I think Ty should be a keeper. He brings a skill that you always need in a bench guy, shooting. With SGA and Giddey handling the rock most of the time (One or the other should always be on the floor) a off ball shooter like Ty who can also handle if needed is more valuable than someone like Theo IMO, but age might win out. I just have not seen an above average trait in Maledon so far, something that shows he fits as the off ball guard next to SGA or Josh.


I like ty as well. He seems like in 2 or 3 years he’ll be helpful. Feels weird giving too much time to a limited upside player when you’re so far off from competing. Feels like developing him for someone else when you’ll never get much back in return for him.


BlazersBroncos wrote: Roll into 22/23 with:

G - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander / Ty Jerome / Theo Maledon
G - Lou Dort / Tre Mann / Aaron Wiggins
F - Josh Giddey / Darius Bazely / Vit Krejic
F - Chet Holmgren / Aleksej Pokusevski / Darius Bazely
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Isaiah Roby / FRP


So that leaves off deck, Kenrich, JRE, muscala, favors, and another likely first rounder (we have 3 likely picks and the Detroit protected). Do you get value back for those guys or just release them? More picks or someone else to add to the roster crunch? Getting second rounders back at this point seems useless. It’s like buying salt water at the ocean.

I think there is a good possibility that some combination of 3 of Kenrich, maledon, ty, roby, or baze get shipped out and replaced with g-leaguers for a mid level pick and a semi bad contract. It seems like that will need to happen a few times over the next few years. Maybe I’m just saying the obvious but presti is going to have to get consistently busy with turning over the back half of his roster or lose a ton of value.
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#197 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:34 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:I think Ty should be a keeper. He brings a skill that you always need in a bench guy, shooting. With SGA and Giddey handling the rock most of the time (One or the other should always be on the floor) a off ball shooter like Ty who can also handle if needed is more valuable than someone like Theo IMO, but age might win out. I just have not seen an above average trait in Maledon so far, something that shows he fits as the off ball guard next to SGA or Josh.


I like ty as well. He seems like in 2 or 3 years he’ll be helpful. Feels weird giving too much time to a limited upside player when you’re so far off from competing. Feels like developing him for someone else when you’ll never get much back in return for him.


BlazersBroncos wrote: Roll into 22/23 with:

G - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander / Ty Jerome / Theo Maledon
G - Lou Dort / Tre Mann / Aaron Wiggins
F - Josh Giddey / Darius Bazely / Vit Krejic
F - Chet Holmgren / Aleksej Pokusevski / Darius Bazely
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Isaiah Roby / FRP


So that leaves off deck, Kenrich, JRE, muscala, favors, and another likely first rounder (we have 3 likely picks and the Detroit protected). Do you get value back for those guys or just release them? More picks or someone else to add to the roster crunch? Getting second rounders back at this point seems useless. It’s like buying salt water at the ocean.

I think there is a good possibility that some combination of 3 of Kenrich, maledon, ty, roby, or baze get shipped out and replaced with g-leaguers for a mid level pick and a semi bad contract. It seems like that will need to happen a few times over the next few years. Maybe I’m just saying the obvious but presti is going to have to get consistently busy with turning over the back half of his roster or lose a ton of value.


I was just looking bigger picture. End of the day I think Presti should try to consolidate a few of those guys into a single youngester on a rookie deal that could fill a long term role. I have liked the idea of an overpay for Goga for some time now. He has nice advanced defensive numbers and his raw shotblocking numbers are great. Could be a Poeltl type IMO.

Kenrich for filler, SRPs from Playoff Team X
Maledon, Baze for Goga, ???
Draft Chet
Max offer to Ayton
Consolidate other FRP's into a single one
Godfather offer of FRP's for a disgruntled G?
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#198 » by Mr Thunder Nick » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:40 pm

I prefer to have several ball-handlers like Shai, Giddey, Theo and Ty then only the ball in the hands of RW0
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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#199 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:46 pm

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Re: 2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion 

Post#200 » by jake_swivel » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:48 pm

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Poku shooting for a 30-spot tonight.

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