2018-19 Oklahoma City Thunder Preseason | October 3rd - October 9th

[spearsy23]

I'm not even sure what you're attempting to take issue with since you didn't add anything to the discussion, the idea that schroder and Westbrook play basically the same game is not novel or unique.

i take issue with the idea that if schroder just had westbrook's playmaking ability he would essentially be westbrook. just to name one thing, you would be missing the transition element where westbrook led the league by a wide margin in possessions per game (nearly 1/4 of his total possessions used) while transition accounted for only 7.3% of schroder's offensive possessions. then you have FTr where westbrook also blows him away.

yeah they have a couple things alike, they are high usage scorers who can't make threes. it does not follow that schroder + westbrook's playmaking = westbrook. that's a lazy comparison.

If schroder was capable of manipulating a defense the same way Russ is they'd be pretty much the same guy offensively.

what does this even mean? you said play making. now you are saying manipulating a defense. and imo neither of these even touches on the primary difference offensively between the two. you're off base here.

Do you consider playmaking only his ability to generate assists? If so that's where we're differing, I consider playmaking to be a broad term that encompasses ability to generate offense. Westbrook's transition and drawing abilities are closely tied to his playmaking (i.e. his individual ability to create offense), and are what make him a better playmaker than a Rubio who is a better pure passer.

This board is better when you actually wanna have a conversation as opposed to showing off your basketball acumen.

[spearsy23]

If diallo is the best of our young wings we're probably in trouble.

[slick_watts]

This board is better when you actually wanna have a conversation as opposed to showing off your basketball acumen.

arbitrarily broadening the term 'playmaking' to encompass every conceivable difference between schroder and westbrook adds a lot to the board. just admit what you said was silly and we can move on.

[ThunderBolt]

This officiating is maddening.

[spearsy23]

This board is better when you actually wanna have a conversation as opposed to showing off your basketball acumen.

arbitrarily broadening the term 'playmaking' to encompass every conceivable difference between schroder and westbrook adds a lot to the board. just admit what you said was silly and we can move on.

Conversely, if you mean passing then say passing.

[spearsy23]

I like diallo so he's obviously going to suck.
See also
Ferguson
Payne
Abrines
Christon

[ThunderBolt]

I like diallo so he's obviously going to suck.
See also
Ferguson
Payne
Abrines
Christon

His shooting sucks. If he could hit half of these putbacks he would have 20 points. He’s got a lot of potential. Ferguson never showed this much.

[Old Man Game]

Hami just a really nice rookie. Who knows what he looks like from here on out but I really like what he's shown. Kid has a high motor and an aptitude for actually impacting the game with that athleticism. He's sort of the Anti-Pj3 in that regard.

[bondom34]

PJ with a motor is a useful NBA player. Only preseason but Schroder has been encouraging, so has Adams.

[ThunderBolt]

Despite not being a great shooter, Diallo seems adequate from the line thus far.

[getrichordie]

I like diallo so he's obviously going to suck.
See also
Ferguson
Payne
Abrines
Christon

His shooting sucks. If he could hit half of these putbacks he would have 20 points. He’s got a lot of potential. Ferguson never showed this much.

I get the sense that he’s a kid who can develop a shot over the next year.


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[retrobro90]

I know he didn't fill up the stat sheet tonight but Nerlens kinda gets me hype for this year. Moreso than I was a couple months ago. I'll admit that I was low on him as a signing and thought he was a bit redundant and inhibitive of Grant's development. As of now (after a whopping 3 preseason games) I think it's possible our environment and defensive principles fall in line with who he is as a player. We kind of thrive in the chaotic/risky coverages that force a lot of turnovers. That's his bread and butter and I think he just feels more comfortable being able to play the way he likes.

Diallo is going to break my heart. It's obviously way too early to predict anything regarding his career trajectory but his game is so fun to watch. He leaps over everyone. We've yet to see him delivered a proper lob pass that was truly high enough. Finished one from Ray tonight but he caught it below his max vert. Russ is gonna throw him a freakshow pass that he catches and cocks back with one hand against the suns or something and everyone is gonna lose their minds. Then he'll just always be an inconsistent performer and poor shooter who has an impressive highlight reel. Or maybe he's great. I don't know. The defense and rebounding look ready enough. He's already way better than someone like Huestis so clearly he's gonna have minutes somewhere. 5 for 6 at the line tonight is huge but I would be shocked/ecstatic if he finished the season <80% from the line.

I'm slowly falling off the Burton bandwagon. There's certainly stuff there to like. He's crafty with the ball--has a way better handle than you'd expect. Lots of shake to his game like a diet Lance/Dion kinda hybrid. Watching him these past two games though it just seems like he's not good enough to play the way he wants to play and I have a hard time figuring out how he fits in with the other guys or finds playing time ahead of them. He should be trying to prove to the coaching staff that he can just be a play finisher/weak side creator/defender but they put him in these positions where he's playing with four non creators in the Minny game or Burton takes it upon himself to hijack possessions he has no business hijacking like tonight. He really forces things at the rim. He can pass a bit but he's far from a calculated decision maker. 5 turnovers and 0 assists tonight in 15 minutes. Think he's a Blue member unless the rest of our wing stable is on crutches.

[Pillendreher]

I don't know what was more common in this game: Airballs, travelling violations, moving screens or off-ball fouls. Ease up on the whistle a bit.

----------------------

Diallo is what Ferguson should be at this point. Which might be good, but also bad. He's what it looks like when athleticism actually affects a game even though said player is still very raw.

Re Patterson: They have to look for him more. 10.6 USG% in three Preseason games is simply not enough. And I'm not just talking about spot up 3s. They need to make him part of the offense in every aspect. Run a PnR with him. Do a give and go with him. Involve him when moving the ball.
He's still so good as a help defender btw. Grant is not even close to that.

Re Abrines: Another 3 off a screen, another couple of drives to the rim. I know he was driving to the hoop here and there last season as well, but this time it looks like it might actually be working and accomplishing something. Good for him!

Re our offense in general: It's just preseason, but I've noticed something that has encouraged me. The last couple of years, we've really lacked in the "attack off the dribble" department. Outside of Russ and our 2nd option on offense, we regularly never had anybody on the roster that could actually attack the basket or at least drive with the ball. That really hurt us offensively because we just had so many players that couldn't shoot at that well to start with and when the opposing team closed out on them, the offensive possession was basically done. Then last year Grant "emerged" as a decent/good driver, which helped. But it still wasn't enough (Donovan talked about this, saying they can't really do that stuff unless they have the players for it). In these preseason games though it has looked like we now have a couple of guys who are comfortable at least putting it on the floor. I think I've seen Diallo drive more often than Ferguson all of last year combined. Noel has put the ball on the floor a couple of times and made something happen because of it. TLC seems to be a guy who is comfortable dribbling and going to the basket (in his first two years, he averaged 6.1 drives per 36 minutes; that would have ranked 4th on last year's Thunder after Westbrook, Felton and George). Abrines has been driving a couple of times per game. And then there's of course Schröder who seems to be able to get to the rim at will.
Now this may not be groundbreaking (driving itself is not suddenly turning this team into a Top 3 offense), but if they can get regular attacks off the dribble from Schröder and in addition to that a couple of attacks off the dribble from the guys I've mentioned, they're suddenly looking at a much better offensive output as a team in that regard. It doesn't put as much pressure on Russ and George and actually enables them to make up for the lack of shooting on the wing a little bit. And If they actually start to move off the ball, they might really be onto something.

[getrichordie]

Schroder is shooting 57% from 3 in preseason folks.


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[spearsy23]

Diallo reminds me of Dion defensively, a lot of activity and pressure but really struggles to cut down angles after a guy's second move. Not an indictment of a 20 year old, he's got plenty of time to improve, just an observation.

[Old Man Game]

I don't know what was more common in this game: Airballs, travelling violations, moving screens or off-ball fouls. Ease up on the whistle a bit.

----------------------

Diallo is what Ferguson should be at this point. Which might be good, but also bad. He's what it looks like when athleticism actually affects a game even though said player is still very raw.

Been thinking the exact thing. The two are sort of mirror images. Ferg is halfway decent shooter, Hami doesn't seem able to shoot much at all (another airball via a jumper from the foul line yesterday, something he also did in game 1). But Ferg can't (or won't) drive the ball at all, Diallo does that quite a bit. Where Ferg often disappears on the floor, Diallo makes his presence felt.

Like we all say, he could suck in actual NBA games, but I have just really liked what we've seen out of him. The building blocks for a decent NBA player are all there other than being able to shoot.

Actually, scratch that, I just looked up their stats, (dislaimer, college versus, pro) but they both shot around 33% from 3 last year. So maybe Ferg doesn't even have that card to play.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/hamidou-diallo-1.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fergute01.html

[slick_watts]

Schroder is shooting 57% from 3 in preseason folks.


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[Pillendreher]

Schroder is shooting 57% from 3 in preseason folks.


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I think I'm gonna need a little more then 7 3PA in three preseason games before I actually praise his shooting. If he could hit ~ 35 % of wide open 3s, that would help a lot I'd say. A guy who shot 44.4 % on mid range jumpers over the last three seasons should manage that, no?

[slick_watts]

Now this may not be groundbreaking (driving itself is not suddenly turning this team into a Top 3 offense)

yeah driving doesn't really mean much unless you can finish or make a play otherwise. i guess i'm nonplussed about this other than schroeder being obviously superior to felton in this regard. i don't really think any of those guys are going to be putting the ball on the floor much while RW is in the game. our three point shooting is so much more important than anything else that we do better, abrines and patterson need to produce.

the other thing about driving is that it makes you more prone to turnovers.

agree with all your other points.

[Pillendreher]

Now this may not be groundbreaking (driving itself is not suddenly turning this team into a Top 3 offense)

yeah driving doesn't really mean much unless you can finish or make a play otherwise. i guess i'm nonplussed about this other than schroeder being obviously superior to felton in this regard. i don't really think any of those guys are going to be putting the ball on the floor much while RW is in the game. our three point shooting is so much more important than anything else that we do better, abrines and patterson need to produce.

the other thing about driving is that it makes you more prone to turnovers.

I'd say the whole thing is a little more "nunanced" than that. Of course 3pt shooting matters and is very important; we can't really go through the whole season with only three guys (George, Abrines, Patterson) being threats from outside. But until that gets fixed, I'll take small things like that. We talk about cutting off the ball as a way to make the offense less predictable. It'd help if some of the wings weren't Josh Huestis level bad and could dribble once or twice after getting the ball. Abrines had a nice pass to Grant in the corner in the 2nd game after he drove to the rim and Grant managed to get himself open for a 3. Noel made a couple of nice passes after dribbling with the basketball.

I agree insofar that we'll have to see wether any of this actually matters in the long run. I guess my stance is this: If at least some of the guys can make a play in the "catch and go" without hurting themselves, we're better off than last season in that regard.

agree with all your other points.

One thing I forgot to mention: Seems to me our PnR has been very, very Adams heavy. When Grant was in there, he was playing very perimeter oriented. I can't even remember them running a PnR with him. Have they run a classic PnR with Noel yet? What about a PnP with Patterson? Those are things they should be looking at as well imo. Adams can't be the only big that is going to the basket.