2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[slick_watts]

I don't think anyone wants him taking 12 threes on most occassions.

right. that game is an extreme example but it happens often enough that westbrook has a nickname dedicated to this behavior. we all know it! why can't we just acknowledge that's what he does, and he does it more than other players of his caliber, and be in agreement with this point. instead of deflecting everything. westbrook can still be an elite player while exhibiting these behaviors. he won a freaking mvp doing it.

And you don't hear about "bad Durant" or "bad Harden" yet they have games fairly regularly like Harden's 11 TOs last night

this is part of james harden's game though! harden is a play maker and will occasionally have bad games where he turns the ball over a lot. westbrook is also a play maker and has games where he turns the ball over a lot. this is part of their skill sets. harden's not, like, doing something out of line while turning it over it's a consequence of how he plays. like westbrook missing layups. if westbrook has a game where he goes 0-8 at the rim or something, so what? that's him having a bad game and it happens.

the problem is that westbrook does things in defiance of his skillset. like taking 12 threes in a game. that's the big difference here. if you lose playing your own game that's one thing. but if you lose because you're doing what you want that's another. other star players might do this occasionally and in other ways. i.e. t-mac's freeze out game, or kobe's freeze out game. but most stars know what they succeed at doing and for the most part stick to it. westbrook does not!

Maybe the coaches aren't preaching the things being stated. Because I'd say if Windhorst were trashing Donovan and praising Westbrook you'd be on record with Windy as a hack.

all we know is what westbrook is doing, and we all know these specific behaviors are bad for the team. personally i think it's a thin and even glib notion that a coaching staff wouldn't tell westbrook or suggest to him 'hey, don't shoot 12 threes'. i also don't think it's unreasonable to expect a player with westbrook's years of experience to pick this up on his own.

windhorst is echoing what's been told to him. we can't confirm its veracity but it is not at odds with the behaviors we see from westbrook. i see no reason to doubt him on this.

[getrichordie]

Ah yes, clearly he should be Ricky Rubio.

no of course not. this isn't fox news, every discussion point doesn't need to be polarized or straw manned into oblivion. westbrook doesn't have to be ricky rubio. but he also shouldn't be attempting 12 threes in a game. none of those other star players would so blatantly defy their skillsets on such a regular basis. this is why there is a 'bad russ' moniker and you don't hear people talking about 'bad durant' or 'bad harden'. this is a westbrook-specific thing among players of his caliber.

you're not less of a fan for accepting this, it's part of who he is. i mean, is it a shock that a player with catchphrases like 'why not?' and 'now i do what i want' is difficult to coach? come on.

As Lupe Fiasco says, “dumb it down.”

You are schooling these guys too much. Maybe I do need those lessons!

Seriously though, there’s just a ton of Westbrook-apologists on this board. You would think Westbrook gave them a job or something.

Bondom out here still trying to say I think Schroder has been better than Westbrook. Hate is the sincerest form of flattery.


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[bondom34]

Ah, Westbrook missing shots isn't part of his game, but Harden with 8 TO/100 is just an accepted part of his. Totally reasonable. And we have credible evidence from players Donovan doesn't try anything, so we're trusting Windy because well it makes Westbrook look worse. Westbrook doesn't shoot 12 threes as a regular thing. Yea he'll do it a few times a year, but the game was lost largely by not only him but PG and Adams and basically everyone being terrible from the field.

I never knew having 11 turnovers was just a thing that you take because it's part of someone's game. Because I know if it were some players on the Thunder it wouldn't be accepted.

[bondom34]

Ah yes, clearly he should be Ricky Rubio.

no of course not. this isn't fox news, every discussion point doesn't need to be polarized or straw manned into oblivion. westbrook doesn't have to be ricky rubio. but he also shouldn't be attempting 12 threes in a game. none of those other star players would so blatantly defy their skillsets on such a regular basis. this is why there is a 'bad russ' moniker and you don't hear people talking about 'bad durant' or 'bad harden'. this is a westbrook-specific thing among players of his caliber.

you're not less of a fan for accepting this, it's part of who he is. i mean, is it a shock that a player with catchphrases like 'why not?' and 'now i do what i want' is difficult to coach? come on.

As Lupe Fiasco says, “dumb it down.”

You are schooling these guys too much. Maybe I do need those lessons!

Seriously though, there’s just a ton of Westbrook-apologists on this board. You would think Westbrook gave them a job or something.

Bondom out here still trying to say I think Schroder has been better than Westbrook. Hate is the sincerest form of flattery.


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What's funny is you do say this, and now you try to bring it to other people and they laugh at you.

I don't hate you, you're just a waste of energy. People taking you down here and on the general forum, and you claim to be "big time". Maybe you should reconsider.

Bah, I'll just put you on ignore. You start to resort to little sexual attacks now, that's cute.

[getrichordie]

no of course not. this isn't fox news, every discussion point doesn't need to be polarized or straw manned into oblivion. westbrook doesn't have to be ricky rubio. but he also shouldn't be attempting 12 threes in a game. none of those other star players would so blatantly defy their skillsets on such a regular basis. this is why there is a 'bad russ' moniker and you don't hear people talking about 'bad durant' or 'bad harden'. this is a westbrook-specific thing among players of his caliber.

you're not less of a fan for accepting this, it's part of who he is. i mean, is it a shock that a player with catchphrases like 'why not?' and 'now i do what i want' is difficult to coach? come on.

As Lupe Fiasco says, “dumb it down.”

You are schooling these guys too much. Maybe I do need those lessons!

Seriously though, there’s just a ton of Westbrook-apologists on this board. You would think Westbrook gave them a job or something.

Bondom out here still trying to say I think Schroder has been better than Westbrook. Hate is the sincerest form of flattery.


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What's funny is you do say this, and now you try to bring it to other people and they laugh at you.

I don't hate you, you're just a waste of energy. People taking you down here and on the general forum, and you claim to be "big time". Maybe you should reconsider.

Bah, I'll just put you on ignore. You start to resort to little sexual attacks now, that's cute.

Are you okay? Did you miss your pills or miss a cup of coffee?

1. Never claimed to be big time. You are making stuff up again! I get a kick out of this every time you do it. I love it. I really do.

2. I basically said that I thought Schroder had played better ball over a certain stretch than Westbrook has. And of course, it triggered you.

3. Sexual attacks? What? Are you okay?


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[slick_watts]

Ah, Westbrook missing shots isn't part of his game, but Harden with 8 TO/100 is just an accepted part of his. Totally reasonable.

you're twisting everything around. i would not have any problem with westbrook missing quality shots (for him), and i even said so in my reply. 'missing shots' is not the problem. it's 'missing shots' that a player with his skillset should not be taking that is the problem. again, you are deflecting like crazy, man. you know this distinction and i know you understand it but you refuse to acknowledge it. if westbrook goes 0-8 at the rim? and we lose? it's a bad game, what can you do. this isn't about missing those shots.

harden 8 TOV / 100 is bad but it's also early in the year and we'll see where he ends up. him and russ as ball dominant scorers and play makers are usually pretty close on TOV per possession. but harden's not doing anything out of line, he's just not producing to his usual standard (in this respect).

the criticism of westbrook isn't not producing to his standards, it's that he is making decisions routinely at odds with what succeeds for him. i.e. "bad russ".

And we have credible evidence from players Donovan doesn't try anything, so we're trusting Windy because well it makes Westbrook look worse. Westbrook doesn't shoot 12 threes as a regular thing. Yea he'll do it a few times a year, but the game was lost largely by not only him but PG and Adams and basically everyone being terrible from the field.

westbrook has attempted 10 or more threes 29 times since 2016-17 between the regular season and playoffs. at 31.5%, you need to go all the way to marcus smart (5 times since 2016-17) to find a player worse at shooting who has attempted 10 or more threes in a game during that time frame. that's 16% of his games he's defying his skillset to this egregious degree. can we not pretend like this is normal, please? or that other stars do this?

players have bad games. this isn't about players having bad games. you are completely missing or evading the point of this.

[getrichordie]

Ah, Westbrook missing shots isn't part of his game, but Harden with 8 TO/100 is just an accepted part of his. Totally reasonable.

you're twisting everything around. i would not have any problem with westbrook missing quality shots (for him), and i even said so in my reply. 'missing shots' is not the problem. it's 'missing shots' that a player with his skillset should not be taking that is the problem. again, you are deflecting like crazy, man. you know this distinction and i know you understand it but you refuse to acknowledge it. if westbrook goes 0-8 at the rim? and we lose? it's a bad game, what can you do. this isn't about missing those shots.

harden 8 TOV / 100 is bad but it's also early in the year and we'll see where he ends up. him and russ as ball dominant scorers and play makers are usually pretty close on TOV per possession. but harden's not doing anything out of line, he's just not producing to his usual standard (in this respect).

the criticism of westbrook isn't not producing to his standards, it's that he is making decisions routinely at odds with what succeeds for him. i.e. "bad russ".

And we have credible evidence from players Donovan doesn't try anything, so we're trusting Windy because well it makes Westbrook look worse. Westbrook doesn't shoot 12 threes as a regular thing. Yea he'll do it a few times a year, but the game was lost largely by not only him but PG and Adams and basically everyone being terrible from the field.[/quote}

westbrook has attempted 10 or more threes 29 times since 2016-17 between the regular season and playoffs. at 31.5%, you need to go all the way to marcus smart (5 times since 2016-17) to find a player worse at shooting who has attempted 10 or more threes in a game during that time frame. that's 16% of his games he's defying his skillset to this egregious degree. can we not pretend like this is normal, please? or that other stars do this?

I never knew having 11 turnovers was just a thing that you take because it's part of someone's game. Because I know if it were some players on the Thunder it wouldn't be accepted.

players have bad games. this isn't about players having bad games. you are completely missing or evading the point of this.

Shouldn’t we know by now that Westbrook can do no wrong in the eyes of Bondom? Westbrook is just another regular ol’ superstar NBA player after all. Harden. Russ. LeBron. No difference there, right?

I think the easiest way to explain this is Russ taking 12 threes is akin to Adams coming out of nowhere to shoot 7 threes. It’s just not his game. Russ does not play within his strengths and doesn’t adjust his game to minimize his weaknesses. He just keeps thinking that he has no weaknesses. That’s the difference.


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[slick_watts]

I think the easiest way to explain this is Russ taking 12 threes is akin to Adams coming out of nowhere to shoot 7 threes. It’s just not his game. Russ does not play within his strengths and doesn’t adjust his game to minimize his weaknesses. He just keeps thinking that he has no weaknesses. That’s the difference.

i wouldn't use that adams example but yes this is it exactly. westbrook leaves so much on the table, more than any other star player, by behaving this way.

windhorst reporting that westbrook won't listen to his coach aligns with what we see on the court.

[Pillendreher]

I see the circle jerk is already in full swing. Windhorst knew full well that this was going to go down exceptionally well with the "WESTBROOK BAD WESTBROOK BASKETBALL CANCER" crowd because it's just an empty talking point to reinformce the same lazy takes we've been hearing for years. How predictable.

[getrichordie]

I think the easiest way to explain this is Russ taking 12 threes is akin to Adams coming out of nowhere to shoot 7 threes. It’s just not his game. Russ does not play within his strengths and doesn’t adjust his game to minimize his weaknesses. He just keeps thinking that he has no weaknesses. That’s the difference.

i wouldn't use that adams example but yes this is it exactly. westbrook leaves so much on the table, more than any other star player, by behaving this way.

windhorst reporting that westbrook won't listen to his coach aligns with what we see on the court.

Exactly. It just makes so much sense. I think a lot of people (cough, Bondom, cough) are blinded by homer-ism or something (I can’t explain it) and they can’t see what’s right in front of them. Maybe it’s just people getting defensive. Hell. Idk.

Again, I think the best way to explain Westbrook is the drummer from the movie Drumline — ultra-talented drummer but can’t read sheet music if that makes sense.

[slick_watts]

I see the circle jerk is already in full swing. Windhorst knew full well that this was going to go down exceptionally well with the "WESTBROOK BAD WESTBROOK BASKETBALL CANCER" crowd because it's just an empty talking point to reinformce the same lazy takes we've been hearing for years. How predictable.

everything you disagree with has ulterior motives. this is the lawyer training in you-- that you see shadows everywhere. did windhorst do anything to suggest that he is lying? has he lied about this before? is what he is saying particularly at odds with what we observe westbrook doing on the court?

there's nothing lazy about these opinions, they are just as valid as your own. invalidating opinions just because you happen to disagree is a bad habit.

[spearsy23]

westbrook has attempted 10 or more threes 29 times since 2016-17 between the regular season and playoffs. at 31.5%, you need to go all the way to marcus smart (5 times since 2016-17) to find a player worse at shooting who has attempted 10 or more threes in a game during that time frame. that's 16% of his games he's defying his skillset to this egregious degree. can we not pretend like this is normal, please? or that other stars do this?

players have bad games. this isn't about players having bad games. you are completely missing or evading the point of this.

I wonder if there's a correlation between his three point attempts and the rest of the team's shooting percentages.

[slick_watts]

Exactly. It just makes so much sense. I think a lot of people (cough, Bondom, cough) are blinded by homer-ism or something (I can’t explain it) and they can’t see what’s right in front of them. Maybe it’s just people getting defensive. Hell. Idk.

bondom is my friend. we disagree on this issue, but that's ok. i wish he would not drag your name through the mud all over realgm, though, just because you disagree. and i wish you wouldn't do it either.

we can all get along and still disagree. like i said, this isn't fox news. we all want the same thing, in principle.

[spearsy23]

I see the circle jerk is already in full swing. Windhorst knew full well that this was going to go down exceptionally well with the "WESTBROOK BAD WESTBROOK BASKETBALL CANCER" crowd because it's just an empty talking point to reinformce the same lazy takes we've been hearing for years. How predictable.

everything you disagree with has ulterior motives. this is the lawyer training in you-- that you see shadows everywhere. did windhorst do anything to suggest that he is lying? has he lied about this before? is what he is saying particularly at odds with what we observe westbrook doing on the court?

there's nothing lazy about these opinions, they are just as valid as your own. invalidating opinions just because you happen to disagree is a bad habit.

It's important to note that windy wasn't presenting anything as opinion, if it's his opinion then it's irresponsible to present it as fact when he's a respected NBA journalist.

[getrichordie]

I see the circle jerk is already in full swing. Windhorst knew full well that this was going to go down exceptionally well with the "WESTBROOK BAD WESTBROOK BASKETBALL CANCER" crowd because it's just an empty talking point to reinformce the same lazy takes we've been hearing for years. How predictable.

How is it an empty talking point?

1. This year is absolutely pivotal to the legacy of Westbrook. He’s going to have more focus on him more than ever. He’s got what 1-2 maybe 3 years of high level basketball left in him? The window is starting to close.

2. Westbrook made a huge scene for himself after going 1-12 from 3 and not talking to reporters until 2 hours afterwards. He brought this on himself. Let me dumb it down: He kept the reporters waiting for 2 hours.


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[slick_watts]

I see the circle jerk is already in full swing. Windhorst knew full well that this was going to go down exceptionally well with the "WESTBROOK BAD WESTBROOK BASKETBALL CANCER" crowd because it's just an empty talking point to reinformce the same lazy takes we've been hearing for years. How predictable.

everything you disagree with has ulterior motives. this is the lawyer training in you-- that you see shadows everywhere. did windhorst do anything to suggest that he is lying? has he lied about this before? is what he is saying particularly at odds with what we observe westbrook doing on the court?

there's nothing lazy about these opinions, they are just as valid as your own. invalidating opinions just because you happen to disagree is a bad habit.

It's important to note that windy wasn't presenting anything as opinion, if it's his opinion then it's irresponsible to present it as fact when he's a respected NBA journalist.

right, he was echoing someone else's opinion. my bad.

[getrichordie]

Exactly. It just makes so much sense. I think a lot of people (cough, Bondom, cough) are blinded by homer-ism or something (I can’t explain it) and they can’t see what’s right in front of them. Maybe it’s just people getting defensive. Hell. Idk.

bondom is my friend. we disagree on this issue, but that's ok. i wish he would not drag your name through the mud all over realgm, though, just because you disagree. and i wish you wouldn't do it either.

we can all get along and still disagree. like i said, this isn't fox news. we all want the same thing, in principle.

Fair enough. You are right. I shouldn’t stoop so low. I guess it’s just the Alabama in me. We’re stupid down here so we just fight fire with fire.


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[spearsy23]

I think the easiest way to explain this is Russ taking 12 threes is akin to Adams coming out of nowhere to shoot 7 threes. It’s just not his game. Russ does not play within his strengths and doesn’t adjust his game to minimize his weaknesses. He just keeps thinking that he has no weaknesses. That’s the difference.

i wouldn't use that adams example but yes this is it exactly. westbrook leaves so much on the table, more than any other star player, by behaving this way.

windhorst reporting that westbrook won't listen to his coach aligns with what we see on the court.

Exactly. It just makes so much sense. I think a lot of people (cough, Bondom, cough) are blinded by homer-ism or something (I can’t explain it) and they can’t see what’s right in front of them. Maybe it’s just people getting defensive. Hell. Idk.

Again, I think the best way to explain Westbrook is the drummer from the movie Drumline — ultra-talented drummer but can’t read sheet music if that makes sense.

Bondom is a Russ Homer, but you're definitely a Russ hater. Your criticisms are generally wrong, and always have an ulterior motive, and they're couched in completely stupid takes like 'Jrue Holiday might be better than Russ.' Slick at least makes sense with his criticisms even if they're sometimes ascribed to things he has no knowledge about (i.e. Russ's internal thought process).

[getrichordie]

I see the circle jerk is already in full swing. Windhorst knew full well that this was going to go down exceptionally well with the "WESTBROOK BAD WESTBROOK BASKETBALL CANCER" crowd because it's just an empty talking point to reinformce the same lazy takes we've been hearing for years. How predictable.

everything you disagree with has ulterior motives. this is the lawyer training in you-- that you see shadows everywhere. did windhorst do anything to suggest that he is lying? has he lied about this before? is what he is saying particularly at odds with what we observe westbrook doing on the court?

there's nothing lazy about these opinions, they are just as valid as your own. invalidating opinions just because you happen to disagree is a bad habit.

It's important to note that windy wasn't presenting anything as opinion, if it's his opinion then it's irresponsible to present it as fact when he's a respected NBA journalist.

He did both. He shared the facts and then shared opinions on what transpired. Much like Lowe, Simmons, and a lot of other respected talking heads do.


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[Pillendreher]

2. Westbrook made a huge scene for himself after going 1-12 from 3 and not talking to reporters until 2 hours afterwards. He brought this on himself. Let me dumb it down: He kept the reporters waiting for 2 hours.

It's the lack of objectivity that turns this into biased bs. Russell Westbrook is the only player in this league that gets this kind of criticism. You think Steph Curry has to step back because some arena worker isn't done yet with his job? You think when James Harden wants to get some work in after a game he can't because the Rockets won't let him?

It's always the same double standard. Always has been, always will be. I'm not expecting it to change, but I sure as hell won't pretend that it isn't there simply because some people ignore it.