Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters

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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1141 » by getrichordie » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:42 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
getrichordie wrote:I wouldn’t be shocked if this is the kind of move the Clippers would be interested in as they want to clear more space for FAs with them being tied to Durant and Leonard.


First, you realize the Clippers have max space without making any trades, right? Secondly, why would they trade Gallinari, who is a very good player, before they have a 2nd max FA lined up to sign and need to move him for one of the handful of better players out there? They are not tanking this season in the hopes that they can be saved by long shot FA signings. They want to make the WCF, which isn't realistic, to try to show the potential FAs that they are close and that replacing Tobias Harris with kd, Butler, Kawahi, etc could put them over the top.

If they somehow get Kyrie and Butler interested in teaming up they could easily move Gallinari to free the needed space for a 2nd max FA while keeping Beverly's cap hold. They would likely also move SGA, who is having a solid rookie year, for a young player at a different position. If they only get a wing then they, theoretically, keep SGA and Beverly as their PGs. There is absolutely no reason for the Clippers to blow up their potential 2nd round team this year for a long shot FA.

That would be like saying OKC should move PG, Adams and Schroder because maybe they could sign Kawahi. Does that sound like a good idea? If not then why are you suggesting that a team in a similar position do something like that?

If you were going to theorize that NOLA would trade off Julius Randle, Solomon Hill and E'Twan Moore to chase one of the wing FAs this off-season to put next to AD and Jrue then I would be willing to accept that theory since they are struggling and really only have one more year to convince AD they can contend. If they were to do something like that then miss on FAs they could trade AD for a huge rebuilding package and then trade Jrue to help speed the rebuild along. It also would help their lottery odds if they traded off their assets, outside of AD and Jrue, now instead of later. They would have a slim chance to get lucky in the lottery and get an huge impact talent plus they could land the FA for a "big 3". If you put Kawhi next to AD and Jrue that team would probably be a top 4 seed in the West next year.


This is a good and well thought out point. Basically what I’m gathering is that this kind of trade would be too risky and I should work on my assessment of a team’s “risk portfolio.”

Clippers would want to hold on to Gallinari and see what shakes out in free agency. If they can’t land someone, they keep Gallinari or possibly trade him off for young guy(s) and pick(s).

If they land a major free agent, then Gallinari can be flipped in a S&T to get another star or flipped in to cap space to sign a star out right.

Am I understanding this correctly?


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Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1142 » by getrichordie » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:46 am

Also, at this point of the season, can this year’s draft have any kind of bearing on what decisions Presti decides (or not decides) to make?

For example, does Presti already have “his guys” he knows he’s going to shoot for and thinks he can get with a reasonable degree of confidence. I’m sure this is where a Plan A, B, and C would come in to place.


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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1143 » by Kizz Fastfists » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:56 pm

getrichordie wrote:Also, at this point of the season, can this year’s draft have any kind of bearing on what decisions Presti decides (or not decides) to make?

For example, does Presti already have “his guys” he knows he’s going to shoot for and thinks he can get with a reasonable degree of confidence. I’m sure this is where a Plan A, B, and C would come in to place.


Only if he is set on guys like Josh Huestis who are locked in as mid 2nd round or undrafted talent. There is still going to be way too much change and Presti has no idea where he would be drafting. At this point in the draft process a lot of us were looking at Oladipo at this point and we ended up with Adams. Oladipo ended up as the top prospect, Cleveland blew the 1st pick and Dipo went #2, while Adams jumped from a fringe first at this point to the 12th pick. Ferguson at this point in the process was considered to be a top 10 pick and look how far he fell. Presti shouldn't even be thinking about the draft board at this point. His scouts should be gathering information on all players and then after the trade deadline he should start slowly building the board.

The only teams that should be building draft boards at this point are the teams that are clearly looking at top 5 picks and evaluating if they want to try to add more picks this year or if they would rather roll the dice on future classes. Although, all teams should have a rough big board for the next 3 drafts classes, but that is just to give them an idea of how deep they feel each class is relative to the other and would be done more by position/tier than an actual ranking.

If Presti is actually looking at the top prospects at this point then that would suggest he's planning on trading into the top of the draft. That would mean he's looking to move Russ or PG. I don't believe that to be the case, but I suppose it is possible that Presti could abandon everything he has build since kd left on a whim for some prospect that he falls in love with. It would just go against everything I know and believe about Presti.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1144 » by Kizz Fastfists » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:57 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:I don't think any team is going to trade for Roberson until they see him healthy on the court.


Unless he misspoke, he was talking about Robinson, not Roberson:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinje01.html


That was my bad. I misread it.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1145 » by Dn4sty » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:11 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:I don't think any team is going to trade for Roberson until they see him healthy on the court.


Unless he misspoke, he was talking about Robinson, not Roberson:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinje01.html


Clipper rookie Robinson for sure.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1146 » by Dn4sty » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:16 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
getrichordie wrote:I wouldn’t be shocked if this is the kind of move the Clippers would be interested in as they want to clear more space for FAs with them being tied to Durant and Leonard.


First, you realize the Clippers have max space without making any trades, right? Secondly, why would they trade Gallinari, who is a very good player, before they have a 2nd max FA lined up to sign and need to move him for one of the handful of better players out there? They are not tanking this season in the hopes that they can be saved by long shot FA signings. They want to make the WCF, which isn't realistic, to try to show the potential FAs that they are close and that replacing Tobias Harris with kd, Butler, Kawahi, etc could put them over the top.

If they somehow get Kyrie and Butler interested in teaming up they could easily move Gallinari to free the needed space for a 2nd max FA while keeping Beverly's cap hold. They would likely also move SGA, who is having a solid rookie year, for a young player at a different position. If they only get a wing then they, theoretically, keep SGA and Beverly as their PGs. There is absolutely no reason for the Clippers to blow up their potential 2nd round team this year for a long shot FA.

That would be like saying OKC should move PG, Adams and Schroder because maybe they could sign Kawahi. Does that sound like a good idea? If not then why are you suggesting that a team in a similar position do something like that?

If you were going to theorize that NOLA would trade off Julius Randle, Solomon Hill and E'Twan Moore to chase one of the wing FAs this off-season to put next to AD and Jrue then I would be willing to accept that theory since they are struggling and really only have one more year to convince AD they can contend. If they were to do something like that then miss on FAs they could trade AD for a huge rebuilding package and then trade Jrue to help speed the rebuild along. It also would help their lottery odds if they traded off their assets, outside of AD and Jrue, now instead of later. They would have a slim chance to get lucky in the lottery and get an huge impact talent plus they could land the FA for a "big 3". If you put Kawhi next to AD and Jrue that team would probably be a top 4 seed in the West next year.


Sure the Clips have max space without moving Gallo, but this is a pretty cheap way (assets/players) to all but guaranteed 2 max spots. I think it’s realistic for a team that been positioning itself for 2 max slots to make a move like this now where it would probably be much cheaper than in the summer. A team would likely take Lou into their cap space, but I’m guessing Clips would have to pay more to get off Gallo deal in the summer than they would at the deadline.

I actually like the version of this deal where Beverley comes instead of Lou, but I think he and Russ would kill each other
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1147 » by Pillendreher » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:04 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Presti has access to all of this info yet there is something about trash iso scorers that he loves with bench units.


I don't even mind that idea, per se. But at some point you have to stick with your plan. incidentally, the bench is the unit that isn't just "Offensive stallwart + a bunch of defensive roleplayers". Abrines needs shots. Patterson needs shots. Diallo is too raw. A guy just pounding the **** out of the ball with those guys is not going to get the most out of it.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1148 » by Roddy B for 3 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:39 pm

Is Noel playing well?
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1149 » by ThunderBolt » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:48 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:Is Noel playing well?

Not that a message board ever has consensus but I think most are satisfied with him as a backup on a vet minimum. He probably could do more but Schroder freezes others out and throws horrible lobs to him.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1150 » by getrichordie » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:52 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Presti has access to all of this info yet there is something about trash iso scorers that he loves with bench units.


I don't even mind that idea, per se. But at some point you have to stick with your plan. incidentally, the bench is the unit that isn't just "Offensive stallwart + a bunch of defensive roleplayers". Abrines needs shots. Patterson needs shots. Diallo is too raw. A guy just pounding the **** out of the ball with those guys is not going to get the most out of it.


Other than letting PG getting some run in those second unit lineups, what are the realistic alternatives? Are we really going to try and run offense through anyone but Schroder? I feel like we are past the phase of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. No other player besides Schroder on second unit can create their own offense so what do you propose can be changed?


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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1151 » by Pillendreher » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:09 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Presti has access to all of this info yet there is something about trash iso scorers that he loves with bench units.


I don't even mind that idea, per se. But at some point you have to stick with your plan. incidentally, the bench is the unit that isn't just "Offensive stallwart + a bunch of defensive roleplayers". Abrines needs shots. Patterson needs shots. Diallo is too raw. A guy just pounding the **** out of the ball with those guys is not going to get the most out of it.


Other than letting PG getting some run in those second unit lineups, what are the realistic alternatives? Are we really going to try and run offense through anyone but Schroder? I feel like we are past the phase of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. No other player besides Schroder on second unit can create their own offense so what do you propose can be changed?


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Involve Noel and other guys. You don't need to run offense "through" somebody. Just get an NBA level of offensive output. This current iteration of Schröder playing like MVP Westbrook without the talent is not going to cut it.
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Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1152 » by getrichordie » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:09 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
I don't even mind that idea, per se. But at some point you have to stick with your plan. incidentally, the bench is the unit that isn't just "Offensive stallwart + a bunch of defensive roleplayers". Abrines needs shots. Patterson needs shots. Diallo is too raw. A guy just pounding the **** out of the ball with those guys is not going to get the most out of it.


Other than letting PG getting some run in those second unit lineups, what are the realistic alternatives? Are we really going to try and run offense through anyone but Schroder? I feel like we are past the phase of throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks. No other player besides Schroder on second unit can create their own offense so what do you propose can be changed?


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Involve Noel and other guys. You don't need to run offense "through" somebody. Just get an NBA level of offensive output. This current iteration of Schröder playing like MVP Westbrook without the talent is not going to cut it.


It seems to me that it has gotten to the point where teams are reading Schroder-Noel PnR like a book so they’ve gone away from it because it isn’t effective. Noel just isn’t an elite screener or an elite roller. He’s just not. Waving a magic wand and hoping he can be better isn’t the answer. He is what he is. Noel isn’t a post-up player either. He’s not a guy who’s going to be able to create his own offense.

If you want to argue that Noel should start taking mid-range shots, hell, I’d say why not (even though that’s not really his strength) but your rebounding in 2U would most likely suffer.

Furthermore this is why Abrines can’t get open. Noel isn’t going to screen Abrines’ defender into oblivion the way Adams can do so to free up Abrines.

Schroder is having a tough time penetrating as of late (as would Russ, relatively) because his defender just sags off him which is smart because he wants to bait him into a pull up 3 which is not Schroder’s forte.

It’s just a really **** lineup with only two perimeter shooters and one has been playing and shooting like dog **** (Patterson).

So if you are the defense, you sag off of Schroder, Diallo, and Patterson and boom, you’ve clogged the paint and you keep a guy on Noel and a guy on Abrines and your offense is virtually locked down and easily defended at a high level.

I really wish I could draw this up on a coach’s board for you to be better able to illustrate it. I do better with visuals than explaining things.

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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1153 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:05 pm

Dennis Smith JR on the block. Even if we could get him, I don't think I really have any interest in him.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1154 » by Mattv » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:23 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Dennis Smith JR on the block. Even if we could get him, I don't think I really have any interest in him.


I dont see how we could offer enough to get him but if they would take Schroder and Abrines or Patterson for Dennis Smith + a Pf of Sg I would do it.

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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1155 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:29 pm

Mattv wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Dennis Smith JR on the block. Even if we could get him, I don't think I really have any interest in him.


I dont see how we could offer enough to get him but if they would take Schroder and Abrines or Patterson for Dennis Smith + a Pf of Sg I would do it.

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He sucks. There is a reason Dallas wants to move him now.
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1156 » by Mattv » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:33 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Mattv wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Dennis Smith JR on the block. Even if we could get him, I don't think I really have any interest in him.


I dont see how we could offer enough to get him but if they would take Schroder and Abrines or Patterson for Dennis Smith + a Pf of Sg I would do it.

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He sucks. There is a reason Dallas wants to move him now.
He needs the ball in his hands so does Doncic.He could be a decent point guard for our bench.But like I said Schroder and Patterson or Abrines would all I would give up to get him and either a Pf or Sg to make the money match.

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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1157 » by Dn4sty » Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:06 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Mattv wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Dennis Smith JR on the block. Even if we could get him, I don't think I really have any interest in him.


I dont see how we could offer enough to get him but if they would take Schroder and Abrines or Patterson for Dennis Smith + a Pf of Sg I would do it.

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He sucks. There is a reason Dallas wants to move him now.


I don’t think he sucks at all. He doesn’t fit well with Doncic. DSJ is the diet version of Russ. He’s in his second year. Writing him off is crazy. He’s got a super high ceiling
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1158 » by Mattv » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:45 pm

Dn4sty wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Mattv wrote:
I dont see how we could offer enough to get him but if they would take Schroder and Abrines or Patterson for Dennis Smith + a Pf of Sg I would do it.

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He sucks. There is a reason Dallas wants to move him now.


I don’t think he sucks at all. He doesn’t fit well with Doncic. DSJ is the diet version of Russ. He’s in his second year. Writing him off is crazy. He’s got a super high ceiling
I would love to get him maybe we could pull something like this off..
Okc Mavs
Okc W.Matthews Smith Jr and Kostas Antetkounmpo.
Mavs Schroder Abrines and T.Davis or Burton and a 2nd round pick.

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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1159 » by Pillendreher » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:47 am

I can't even remember the last time one of our point guards used a screen up top to get to the rim. Teams are packing the paint and it's taking away driving lanes.

Yet I just don't see how we can fix that. Grant is doing the best he can for a guy that can't really shoot. And he's also geting 30+ minutes, so you're not going to trade for a guy that will have that big of an impact. Westbrook, George and Adams are here to stay. That leaves bench minutes and the 2 spot.

This is a list of guards that have taken at least 60 catch and shoot 3s and have made at least 37 % of them:

Malcolm Brogdon - MIL - 89 3PA - 51.7 3P%
Monte Morris - DEN - 64 3PA - 50 3P%
Buddy Hield - SAC - 156 3PA - 49.4 3P%
Joe Harris - BKN - 135 3PA - 48.9 3P%
Stephen Curry - GSW - 158 3PA - 47.5 3P%
Patty Mills - SAS - 86 3PA - 46.5 3P%
Bryn Forbes - SAS - 104 3PA - 45.2 3P%
Victor Oladipo - IND - 67 3PA - 43.3 3P%
Kyle Korver - UTA - 81 3PA - 43.2 3P%
Kyrie Irving - BOS - 111 3PA - 43.2 3P%
Fred VanVleet - TOR - 79 3PA - 43 3P%
Jrue Holiday - NOP - 63 3PA - 42.9 3P%
Ryan Arcidiacono - CHI - 91 3PA - 42.9 3P%
Wesley Matthews - DAL - 133 3PA - 42.9 3P%
Danny Green - TOR - 152 3PA - 42.8 3P%
Damian Lillard - POR - 96 3PA - 42.7 3P%
Josh Richardson - MIA - 142 3PA - 42.3 3P%
Jimmy Butler - PHI - 62 3PA - 41.9 3P%
Devin Booker - PHX - 68 3PA - 41.2 3P%
Garrett Temple - MEM - 112 3PA - 41.1 3P%
Reggie Bullock - DET - 124 3PA - 41.1 3P%
Kevin Huerter - ATL - 83 3PA - 41 3P%
Allen Crabbe - BKN - 150 3PA - 40.7 3P%
Landry Shamet - PHI - 121 3PA - 40.5 3P%
Iman Shumpert - SAC - 94 3PA - 40.4 3P%
Malik Beasley - DEN - 87 3PA - 40.2 3P%
Mike Conley - MEM - 90 3PA - 40 3P%
CJ McCollum - POR - 93 3PA - 39.8 3P%
E'Twaun Moore - NOP - 88 3PA - 39.8 3P%
Rodney McGruder - MIA - 104 3PA - 39.4 3P%
Josh Hart - LAL - 128 3PA - 39.1 3P%
D'Angelo Russell - BKN - 108 3PA - 38.9 3P%
Evan Fournier - ORL - 131 3PA - 38.9 3P%
Tony Snell - MIL - 98 3PA - 38.8 3P%
Tyler Johnson - MIA - 103 3PA - 38.8 3P%
Marco Belinelli - SAS - 101 3PA - 38.6 3P%
Bogdan Bogdanovic - SAC - 78 3PA - 38.5 3P%
Vince Carter - ATL - 99 3PA - 38.4 3P%
Nicolas Batum - CHA - 84 3PA - 38.1 3P%
Damyean Dotson - NYK - 77 3PA - 37.7 3P%
JJ Redick - PHI - 159 3PA - 37.7 3P%
Reggie Jackson - DET - 125 3PA - 37.6 3P%
John Wall - WAS - 99 3PA - 37.4 3P%
Terrence Ross - ORL - 115 3PA - 37.4 3P%
Andrew Wiggins - MIN - 102 3PA - 37.3 3P%
Malik Monk - CHA - 102 3PA - 37.3 3P%
Spencer Dinwiddie - BKN - 78 3PA - 37.2 3P%


I don't see a single guy that just pops off the list as a trade target. Fournier is obvious in a Schröder swap, but other than that...
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Re: Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters 

Post#1160 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:11 am

Lyles has tanked his value and Denver is probably willing to move him. He has been a much better shooter in the past than he is right now. I’m not as high on him as last year but he might be a guy worth taking a shot on. The trade board thread basically said he probably isn’t worth much more than a second or two. He can’t be much worse than Patterson.
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