2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

[bondom34]

:nonono: the season isn't even over and y'all already talking about getting rid of people. How about y'all stfu and just enjoy the season. Believe in our team. When that time comes at the end of the season then we'll deal about it. Till then how about we root for the players that currently wear a Thunder jersey. Let's go Okc!

Rooting for the team and accepting the reality of the team are not mutually exclusive concepts. I've been a Cubs fan my whole life and last season was the first time I ever thought the team had a chance. Rose colored glasses are for children. This season was over a long time ago. Next season is already over. Hell, '19'-20 is almost over. Beyond that depends in large part what happens this off-season. If Russ gets extended and they try to keep this fringe playoff team together then OKC is irrelevant through the '23-'24 season, at a minimum.

I have faith in Presti to do the right thing and start the rebuilding this off-season. He has done very little to make me question his ability as a GM. This off-season will be his greatest test and I'm hopeful that he passes. If he fails it will be a miserable next 4-5 years.

Your faith in Presti is correct. But he knows what's actually best for the team. If OKC loses Russ, they're irrelevant for a loooong time.

4-5 years might be miserable to you, but for the rest of us they'll be pretty darn nice. I've enjoyed this season more than I've enjoyed any of the last 3. I'll be interested to see your feeling on Presti when Russ is still on the team next year, because I know you're a smart guy and you realize how incredibly long and awful a rebuild actually takes in the NBA. It isn't 3 years. Or 5. Maybe between 6-10 of being totally irrelevant and having a fanbase actually turn on the franchise.

[Andre Roberstan]

:nonono: the season isn't even over and y'all already talking about getting rid of people. How about y'all stfu and just enjoy the season. Believe in our team. When that time comes at the end of the season then we'll deal about it. Till then how about we root for the players that currently wear a Thunder jersey. Let's go Okc!

I get this. I'm a huge cap nerd, though, so even if we were 74–8 I'd still be tinkering.

[ThunderBolt]

He's not leaving this off season....

True, you can still wait a year. Don't know, just tossing it out there. Not likely but possible.

Personally I'd move him and keep Taj, only move VO if there's a really good offer.

If we wait a year then at best kanter walks and we have MLE money to give a backup center. We've seen the team without vic and without enes, the bench is a mess without enes while the starters may actually benefit from increased spacing without vic. Vic is not a special player, he's an average starter that isn't a great fit next to Robes/Russ. If you're committed to them, and it seems we are, then moving him for increased depth doesn't hurt especially if it allows us to keep taj.

Yep I couldn't agree more with this. Is there one thing Vic does really well? He's not an elite ball handler, decent three point shooter, good but not great free throw shooter, mediocre finisher at the basket, decent defender...that's not worth what he'll be getting paid next year. I think his athleticism is overrated. I would put Roberson as more athletic. You can't play defense like Dre and not be a great athlete. I don't think trading him impacts Russ' decision to be here or not. Now if we trade Steven Adams, that's a different story.

[Osirus89]

:nonono: the season isn't even over and y'all already talking about getting rid of people. How about y'all stfu and just enjoy the season. Believe in our team. When that time comes at the end of the season then we'll deal about it. Till then how about we root for the players that currently wear a Thunder jersey. Let's go Okc!

[No-Man]

Are you guys gonna dump Kanter? if you re-sign Robes this off-season and McD next one the $ gets tough, Kanter isnt a big need if you can play Sabonis as the back-up C, and you can, and esp if you can re-sign Taj on the cheap, which we will see I guess.
Sacramento and Brooklyn are the two teams I could see taking Kanter for free, both have a **** load of capspace and not many targets to spend it, Enes contract is only 2 years long now, so dumping him should be easier, you might be able to recoup a small asset in return too, who knows, Langston Galloway from Sacramento if he exercises his PO and opts in for his 1y 5.4m$ deal could be useful.

[Kizz Fastfists]

It all depends on in OKC is willing to be tax payers for one playoff series. If they are willing to be tax payers they can keep Kanter and pay Taj and Roberson. If they are not willing to be taxpayers they have to let at least one of them go. Most likely they would just let Taj walk as a rental. If Kanter then opts out after next season they can just let him walk and avoid the tax when Russ gets his raise to 35% of the cap, $32M give or take.

The common theme here is that they have to let talent walk every off-season to continue to avoid the tax. They can't add talent through FA or take salary in trades. Giving away Kanter doesn't solve that because it just gives them the room to resign Taj so you are basically giving up Kanter for Taj. I think they were prepared to go deep into the tax even as repeaters IF the team hadn't gotten blown up this off-season. Given what the team currently is I can't see them going into the tax as it makes no financial or basketball sense to pay the tax and not be a contender.

[ThunderBolt]

Here's an idea that's unlikely but something I like. Malik Monk is projected around 8-10. That's the same range Minnesota is projected to be picking. We know that Thibbs has been rumored to want some veterans among his young guys. What if we trade Oladipo+our draft pick/other piece to get Monk? I think Malik Monk will be a decent offense contributor as a rookie. Also this helps significantly with our cap situation. Thoughts?

[Kizz Fastfists]

Monk is only an option if you are trading Russ for picks from Boston or Philly. He'll go in the top 5. Any GM that would trade Monk for Dipo should be fired.

[ThunderBolt]

Monk is only an option if you are trading Russ for picks from Boston or Philly. He'll go in the top 5. Any GM that would trade Monk for Dipo should be fired.

It's possible that he goes that high. I've also seen him ranked around 11th on cbssports.com. Again, it wouldn't be Vic for Monk. We could also potentially offer our pick on draft night. It doesn't necessarily even have to be Monk. Right now the team has looked pretty decent without Vic and a team like Minnesota would like a guy like him.

Really what I'm saying is targeting Minnesota as a team to allow us to move up in the draft. Thibbs wants some experience and we will need to shed some salaries. I think it could be a potential fit good.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I'll say it again. If you are giving up Vic for a draft pick you better trade Russ. That move is the same as packing Russ' bags. You are telling him that you don't care about winning now. You are dumping your 2nd/3rd best player for someone you how to be as good when Russ is 30+ and starting to slow down. OKC has two options. Option one is keep the team together and pay the tax and repeater tax for a team that will never be a contender. Option two is trade Russ and Vic and go into a rebuild. I'm dismissing the "option" of moving Vic to clear salary to keep Roberson and watching Russ leave as a FA next off-season because that would require more stupidity than I'm willing to assign to Presti.

Minny has enough wings and combo guards. They wouldn't be interested in Dipo for a pick that could yield a better player. They might be interested in Adams and would definitely be interested in Russ. They might do LaVine for Dipo which would give Thibs more defense and give OKC more offense. You could also sell that move to Russ since LaVine has shot 39% from 3 the last two seasons and has established himself as a good offensive player. LaVine will be due a max extension after next season, but you would hope Kanter opts out or if not you'd be moving him as an expiring contract. If Russ still left you'd have a young player in LaVine to try to start building around which would be similar to building around Harden.

[bondom34]

Minnesota's not trading Lavine for Dipo.

And I'll be honest, I get the cap implications but Presti loved Dipo from that draft, and if for no other reason than that I don't see him traded that quickly.

[Kizz Fastfists]

And I'll be honest, I get the cap implications but Presti loved Dipo from that draft, and if for no other reason than that I don't see him traded that quickly.

The moves this off-season will be interesting. It is almost impossible to shed salary and add talent. OKC has to clear some salary, because I don't believe they are going to commit to years of being tax payers. Maybe they give up the draft pick to get someone to take Singler's salary. Then resign Roberson. Then finish the roster with vet minimum players. Maybe someone is willing to take Kanter's contract for the draft pick then they could also keep Taj and Roberson without going into the tax next season.

[Andre Roberstan]

I'll say it again. If you are giving up Vic for a draft pick you better trade Russ. That move is the same as packing Russ' bags. You are telling him that you don't care about winning now. You are dumping your 2nd/3rd best player for someone you how to be as good when Russ is 30+ and starting to slow down. OKC has two options. Option one is keep the team together and pay the tax and repeater tax for a team that will never be a contender. Option two is trade Russ and Vic and go into a rebuild. I'm dismissing the "option" of moving Vic to clear salary to keep Roberson and watching Russ leave as a FA next off-season because that would require more stupidity than I'm willing to assign to Presti.

Minny has enough wings and combo guards. They wouldn't be interested in Dipo for a pick that could yield a better player. They might be interested in Adams and would definitely be interested in Russ. They might do LaVine for Dipo which would give Thibs more defense and give OKC more offense. You could also sell that move to Russ since LaVine has shot 39% from 3 the last two seasons and has established himself as a good offensive player. LaVine will be due a max extension after next season, but you would hope Kanter opts out or if not you'd be moving him as an expiring contract. If Russ still left you'd have a young player in LaVine to try to start building around which would be similar to building around Harden.

Oh, I'd tend to agree. Unless you're getting a pick and a player back it's not worth doing it.

But I think moving Dipo for better fit might be on the table. Look at the Rockets—talent level has been pretty comparable to the Thunder, but the fit around Harden is absolutely seamless. You look at Oladipo and Westbrook's "hunting grounds" on offense and they overlap by a lot.

And if you were talking to FAs already and knew that you could open up space for them by moving Dipo for a pick, would you do it? Say Justin Holiday and Joe Ingles are available and you know they're willing to sign for the new MLE or a portion of it, which you can do without hitting the tax by moving Dipo. Or JJ Redick, though he's likely to get paid more than that.

EDIT: Or CJ Miles, who has a player option next year that he'll likely decline.

[ThunderBolt]

I'll say it again. If you are giving up Vic for a draft pick you better trade Russ. That move is the same as packing Russ' bags. You are telling him that you don't care about winning now. You are dumping your 2nd/3rd best player for someone you how to be as good when Russ is 30+ and starting to slow down. OKC has two options. Option one is keep the team together and pay the tax and repeater tax for a team that will never be a contender. Option two is trade Russ and Vic and go into a rebuild. I'm dismissing the "option" of moving Vic to clear salary to keep Roberson and watching Russ leave as a FA next off-season because that would require more stupidity than I'm willing to assign to Presti.

Minny has enough wings and combo guards. They wouldn't be interested in Dipo for a pick that could yield a better player. They might be interested in Adams and would definitely be interested in Russ. They might do LaVine for Dipo which would give Thibs more defense and give OKC more offense. You could also sell that move to Russ since LaVine has shot 39% from 3 the last two seasons and has established himself as a good offensive player. LaVine will be due a max extension after next season, but you would hope Kanter opts out or if not you'd be moving him as an expiring contract. If Russ still left you'd have a young player in LaVine to try to start building around which would be similar to building around Harden.

I disagree that trading Vic runs away Russ. I don't think Vic is a huge difference maker with this team. Although the sample size is small, we're seeing that right now. Also, trading Vic for Lavine is pointless. He's going to miss probably the majority of next season and will likely take some time to be back at full speed once he returns.

[TheBeardedMan]

It all depends on in OKC is willing to be tax payers for one playoff series. If they are willing to be tax payers they can keep Kanter and pay Taj and Roberson. If they are not willing to be taxpayers they have to let at least one of them go. Most likely they would just let Taj walk as a rental. If Kanter then opts out after next season they can just let him walk and avoid the tax when Russ gets his raise to 35% of the cap, $32M give or take.

The common theme here is that they have to let talent walk every off-season to continue to avoid the tax. They can't add talent through FA or take salary in trades. Giving away Kanter doesn't solve that because it just gives them the room to resign Taj so you are basically giving up Kanter for Taj. I think they were prepared to go deep into the tax even as repeaters IF the team hadn't gotten blown up this off-season. Given what the team currently is I can't see them going into the tax as it makes no financial or basketball sense to pay the tax and not be a contender.

Lol wtf! Why would you just dump Kanter like that. The guy is a great locker room guy and is a big part of our team. If i would trade him then I'll rather do a sign and trade for Blake Griffin. (Which I know it'll happen in the offseason. As for Roberson it just depends on his contract.. remember he's a restricted free agent. So if someone offers him 10+ million a year then I can see us letting him go. But we gotta wait and find out.

[Andre Roberstan]

It all depends on in OKC is willing to be tax payers for one playoff series. If they are willing to be tax payers they can keep Kanter and pay Taj and Roberson. If they are not willing to be taxpayers they have to let at least one of them go. Most likely they would just let Taj walk as a rental. If Kanter then opts out after next season they can just let him walk and avoid the tax when Russ gets his raise to 35% of the cap, $32M give or take.

The common theme here is that they have to let talent walk every off-season to continue to avoid the tax. They can't add talent through FA or take salary in trades. Giving away Kanter doesn't solve that because it just gives them the room to resign Taj so you are basically giving up Kanter for Taj. I think they were prepared to go deep into the tax even as repeaters IF the team hadn't gotten blown up this off-season. Given what the team currently is I can't see them going into the tax as it makes no financial or basketball sense to pay the tax and not be a contender.

Lol wtf! Why would you just dump Kanter like that. The guy is a great locker room guy and is a big part of our team. If i would trade him then I'll rather do a sign and trade for Blake Griffin. (Which I know it'll happen in the offseason. As for Roberson it just depends on his contract.. remember he's a restricted free agent. So if someone offers him 10+ million a year then I can see us letting him go. But we gotta wait and find out.

If Doc does a sign and trade of Griffin for Kanter he should never be allowed to GM a basketball team ever again.

[ThunderBolt]

The clips are going to hold on to their core 3 until they are on SS.


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[Andre Roberstan]

I brewed up a Dipo for MKG/Lamb trade that puts us in safe territory for salary next year:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P7fjUIXc6-Tf2jxLdk6oht_fjaYQ0APgL5afC42fztg/edit?usp=sharing

Depth chart:

Westbrook/Abrines/MKG/Sabonis/Adams
Christon/Lamb/McDermott/Grant/Kanter
VET MIN OR ROOKIE/Hamilton/Singler/Huestis/Johnson

You let Robes, Nick and Taj walk. Look for a Kanter trade midseason if Johnson looks ready, deal Singler for scraps if the opportunity comes available. Next offseason you have to pay McBuckets and Grant, but if you deal Kanter you can probably keep at least one of the two. With Singler gone you might get both. If you find a Lamb destination, so much the better.

[Andre Roberstan]

Are you guys gonna dump Kanter? if you re-sign Robes this off-season and McD next one the $ gets tough, Kanter isnt a big need if you can play Sabonis as the back-up C, and you can, and esp if you can re-sign Taj on the cheap, which we will see I guess.
Sacramento and Brooklyn are the two teams I could see taking Kanter for free, both have a **** load of capspace and not many targets to spend it, Enes contract is only 2 years long now, so dumping him should be easier, you might be able to recoup a small asset in return too, who knows, Langston Galloway from Sacramento if he exercises his PO and opts in for his 1y 5.4m$ deal could be useful.

I tend to agree with that assessment, but it's more likely that they bring up Dakari Johnson from the Blue (where he's been killing it) and let him take over backup C. And yeah, SAC seems like an ideal Kanter destination to me, especially if you could get back one of their young bigs in return.

[Andre Roberstan]

Also, my OKC salary calculator is updated. If you want to play with it, the 2017 offseason and 2018 offseason max calculators should be correct, and all cap holds are up to date through 2020 except for Russ—I haven't done the math on what his extension would be.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P7fjUIXc6-Tf2jxLdk6oht_fjaYQ0APgL5afC42fztg/edit?usp=sharing