2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread Part Deux: Follow the Melo Brick Road

[ThunderBolt]

Was it last night late in the game where we can came out if the timeout and we immediately got the ball to Russ for three? That’s the shot we want? So is that the play Billy calls or is Russ ignoring the play? I dont know if russ isn’t coachable but i dont know if he’s had a coach that tried. It’s a chicken/egg argument of which we’ll likely never know the answer.

[InTheSabonus]

In my opinion, we should give Carmelo more shots. It was just four years ago that he scored 62 points against the Bobcats.

[getrichordie]

If you are Presti this offseason, what moves do you make if George goes elsewhere AND Melo opts in? Are you buying Melo out? Are you trying to trade his expiring for picks which will send a message to Russ that they intend to rebuild? What's the thinking here?

[Pillendreher]

I just randomly looked up Lamb's numbers in 13/14 before the ASB

55 games
22 mpg
45 FG%/37 3P%/84 FT%/54 TS%/110 ORtG
10/3/2/1

and in 14/15 before Christmas:

20 games
24 mpg
43 FG%/36 3P%/91 FT%/55 TS%/108 ORtG
11/4/2/1

I have to say I'm kinda shocked. I always remembered him being horrible, but when he got consistent minutes, he didn't perform all that badly. Captain Hindsight, but one has to wonder what could have been if we hadn't signed Butler to play 25+ minutes a game and suck so Lamb could go back to being benched. Even this version of Lamb could give us a lift off the bench this season. Comparing what we've got coming off the bench now in the wing department to what we benched way back when is not a pretty sight.

[ThunderBolt]

If you are Presti this offseason, what moves do you make if George goes elsewhere AND Melo opts in? Are you buying Melo out? Are you trying to trade his expiring for picks which will send a message to Russ that they intend to rebuild? What's the thinking here?

Have a sit down meeting with Russ and see if he wants a trade. I don’t think Presti will trade russ without them both being on the same page but I also don’t think russ will want to stay here if George leaves.

[Pillendreher]

If you are Presti this offseason, what moves do you make if George goes elsewhere AND Melo opts in? Are you buying Melo out? Are you trying to trade his expiring for picks which will send a message to Russ that they intend to rebuild? What's the thinking here?

Have a sit down meeting with Russ and see if he wants a trade. I don’t think Presti will trade russ without them both being on the same page but I also don’t think russ will want to stay here if George leaves.

Russ should never get traded unless he absolutely wants to. He should retire wearing a Thunder uniform.

[Pillendreher]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunder/comments/824m0e/im_fred_katz_of_the_norman_transcript_ama/?st=jeegf1js&sh=bdbfed05

[EnragedThunder]

If you are Presti this offseason, what moves do you make if George goes elsewhere AND Melo opts in? Are you buying Melo out? Are you trying to trade his expiring for picks which will send a message to Russ that they intend to rebuild? What's the thinking here?

Have a sit down meeting with Russ and see if he wants a trade. I don’t think Presti will trade russ without them both being on the same page but I also don’t think russ will want to stay here if George leaves.

If a conversation takes place on trading Westrbrook, its time for Presti to find another place of employment, period. As a fan, I would not want a GM managing this team that once had Durant, Harden, and Westbrook on the roster. Our ceiling would be limited, as the Thunder would have to hit rock bottom before he landed some type of elite athlete even in the same ballpark as KD-Harden-Westbrook in their younger years.

Sam's had the job for more than a decade, but trading Westbrook would be the final straw for me as a fan.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Sam's had the job for more than a decade, but trading Westbrook would be the final straw for me as a fan.

This is what makes fan perspectives so interesting. Him extending Russ instead of trading him last off-season is why I want him traded. His inability to realize the team was no longer a contender and needed to rebuild instead of chasing first round playoff exits has set the franchise back 3-4 years already.

[EnragedThunder]

How many years do you want to rebuild? Are you confident that the Thunder could get back to elite status?

The time is now, we've seen this show before, as KD and Harden are no longer on the team.

Back then, I think a lot of us took making the playoffs for granted and assumed that KD was content with the continuous rebuild / drafting future prospects. That experiment has yet to product results.

[Kizz Fastfists]

How many years do you want to rebuild? Are you confident that the Thunder could get back to elite status?

I am 100% confident they can NOT get back to elite status while Russ is on the roster. He is too old to rebuild around him at this point. He is declining. The window closed when the best player on the team went to GS. I don't care about how long a rebuild is. I care about following a logical process to try to get back to being a contender and not chasing fantasies. If OKC would have had all their contracts set to expire this off-season, like Miami did when they brought in LeBron and Bosh, that would be different. If Russ were 23 and not 29 it would be different as they would have time. They have no time, no assets, not cap space and no talent. You can not win in any sport with that combination.

[EnragedThunder]

Disagree. Young, inexperienced teams are not winning NBA championships. Guys in their upper 20's, combined with Vets, superstars, and elite coaching seem to be the formula. The Thunder lack an elite coach, so that one can be crossed off the list.

How old was MJ when he won his first ring? Westbrook is how old, and you're ready to throw in the towel for 5-10 years of mediocrity to "rebuild?"

[ThunderBolt]

How many years do you want to rebuild? Are you confident that the Thunder could get back to elite status?

I am 100% confident they can NOT get back to elite status while Russ is on the roster. He is too old to rebuild around him at this point. He is declining. The window closed when the best player on the team went to GS. I don't care about how long a rebuild is. I care about following a logical process to try to get back to being a contender and not chasing fantasies. If OKC would have had all their contracts set to expire this off-season, like Miami did when they brought in LeBron and Bosh, that would be different. If Russ were 23 and not 29 it would be different as they would have time. They have no time, no assets, not cap space and no talent. You can not win in any sport with that combination.

George, russ and Adams could be a very good team with a competent coach and complete rebuild of the bench. It probably won’t happen but it’s not impossible to make this core group of guys work.

[slick_watts]

Disagree. Young, inexperienced teams are not winning NBA championships. Guys in their upper 20's, combined with Vets, superstars, and elite coaching seem to be the formula. The Thunder lack an elite coach, so that one can be crossed off the list.

How old was MJ when he won his first ring? Westbrook is how old, and you're ready to throw in the towel for 5-10 years of mediocrity to "rebuild?"

first of all, MJ won his first ring during his seventh season at age 27, after enduring years of mediocrity. how do you think they got to that point? the same way the thunder did, by being bad and adding to their roster.

second of all, if we had a player of michael jordan's caliber and were in a big market like chicago, there wouldn't be any issues finding teammates for him to play with.

the problem that kizz is noting here is that the thunder lack the assets now to get 'vets, superstars and elite coaching', especially if russell westbrook is declining.

[EnragedThunder]

Look, a year and a half ago, I heard almost every Thunder fan I know bash KD for leaving and for lack of loyalty, even calling him cupcake (which I agree).

One season later, there are fans like you who want Russ traded for an uncertain future.

Russ has a good 4 years left, and like the poster above mentioned, he should retire in a Thunder uniform if he desires.

[slick_watts]

Look, a year and a half ago, I heard almost every Thunder fan I know bash KD for leaving and for lack of loyalty, even calling him cupcake (which I agree).

One season later, there are fans like you who want Russ traded for an uncertain future.

Russ has a good 4 years left, and like the poster above mentioned, he should retire in a Thunder uniform if he desires.

there's no reason to be loyal to players like this. kd is a perfect example. the thunder don't owe westbrook anything. i recall a lot of bloggers and even some national nba reporters blasting morey for how he handed lin and asik-- questioning whether or not free agents would sign there again because agents don't like working with him. it was nonsense then and it's nonsense now.

if trading westbrook is the best thing for the team, you do it regardless of how he feels. if it's not, you don't.

whether or not it is the best thing for the team is up for debate. it's going to be an uncertain future regardless.

[Thundershock88]

Some of you guys are taking this thing to an extreme. This team is clearly underachieving, and it's quite obvious that this team is lacking in the coaching department. A decent X's and O's guy would get this thing on track.

[Pillendreher]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunder/comments/824m0e/im_fred_katz_of_the_norman_transcript_ama/?st=jeegf1js&sh=bdbfed05

Katz on Patterson+"Big 4":

I've tried to get these answers out of Billy before and have never really gotten anything straight up. He plays that lineup with Grant at the 4 but hardly ever Patterson. Here's what I've gathered in the times I've asked:

• He likes it when guards cover Grant in those lineups, because you can post him up (which I found confusing since, why would you want a Grant post-up when Westbrook, George, Melo and Adams are on the floor?)

• He likes Grant's length with that group

• He hasn't seen the Patterson lineup enough, so he doesn't have an opinion on it yet, which is self-inflicted, of course

Of course, we're seeing Patterson in the lineup when Anthony doesn't play. They defended well during the first quarter against Portland and during the whole Golden State win when they had him out there. But those were slightly different.

It's hard to play that lineup all the time because Anthony at the 3 can be mighty dangerous, but Patterson can guard a bunch of 3s. And it's certainly possible sporadically. It's certainly possible to use more than Donovan has.

Katz on recent play/defense/struggles:

The easy answer here is consistency or energy or however you want to frame it. They can't blow out bad teams, and I'm not as convinced they have the on/off switch everyone seems to believe they do. This idea that they are elite against the elite is weird to me. They're 19-17 against teams over .500. That's above average. It's nowhere near elite. 17 losses is more losses than Toronto, Golden State and Houston have all year.

The more technical answer is not necessarily Dre's injury but it is tangentially related: the Thunder have a 108.5 defensive rating in the 15 games since Jan. 28. (I've completely arbitrarily chosen that date. That's definitely not the day after Andre Roberson went down for the season. Totally not.) It's...not impressive.

The thing is, though, that's not all on Dre. They had a similar defensive efficiency when Roberson was off the floor during the time he was healthy, but I refuse to believe a defense with Paul George and Steven Adams getting this much playing time can be one of the worst in the NBA. Worse than top five or top 10? Sure. But we're talking way worse than that right now.

Some of it is Westbrook's gambling and ball screen tendencies. Some of it is that Anthony has gotten worse as the season has gone on, certainly one of the reasons the Thunder have started to rest him. Some of it is lineups, too.

The Thunder defend a smidgen better in lineups with the big four and Huestis, but Donovan doesn't give it many minutes. And that lineup is probably better than its defensive efficiency says, considering teams have made a ridiculously high percentage of 3s against it, and that doesn't tend to sustain over the larger sample size.

Maybe the linups are a reason we've seen Ray Felton close with the big four lately. That lineup has nice defensive numbers. Maybe it's why we continue to see the all-bench unit, which has solid defensive metrics, too.

Regardless, the defense has to get better for OKC to make noise.

[wco81]

I would think it would be hard to trade WB with that contract.

People are figuring out that Clippers won big by dumping Blake Griffin and that albatross contract.

WB is around the same age as Blake and has an even bigger contract.

[Andre Roberstan]

I would think it would be hard to trade WB with that contract.

People are figuring out that Clippers won big by dumping Blake Griffin and that albatross contract.

WB is around the same age as Blake and has an even bigger contract.

I think the name helps. But Blake's issue isn't so much the contract, but the injury history. Healthy Blake is awesome.