Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters

[slick_watts]

ya'll need jesus.

[Dn4sty]

One is an elite defender, the other a traffic cone.

One is 24 and not yet in their prime, the other is 30 with injury history going downhill.

Grant has same TS numbers as Love last year.

Loves a better offensive player, but Grant is catching up - his defensive superiority makes up for the difference.

Then you add in Schroder, a top 3 6th man and it's not even worth considering trading both.

Yeah, I wouldn’t touch Love with a ten-foot pole. There are better ways to get the Thunder what Love provides (3-pt shooting; rebounding) for way cheaper...


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Ok, but there is no way Grant is better than Love and that Schorder is top currently anywhere close to top 3 6th man candidate

[ThunderBolt]

I like grant but you have to give up something when you are dumping a pile of garbage on Cleveland.

[SecondTake]

I like grant but you have to give up something when you are dumping a pile of garbage on Cleveland.

Yeah but why dump it? So you can get an old, injured player that can't play D? No way is love at grants level by this time next year

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[SecondTake]

Yeah, I wouldn’t touch Love with a ten-foot pole. There are better ways to get the Thunder what Love provides (3-pt shooting; rebounding) for way cheaper...


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Ok, but there is no way Grant is better than Love and that Schorder is top currently anywhere close to top 3 6th man candidate

He's about as good and will be better by next year probably. Schroeder is in the 6moty conversation by most analysts. He's dropped off but he's still top five and borderline top three

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[slick_watts]

Yeah, I wouldn’t touch Love with a ten-foot pole. There are better ways to get the Thunder what Love provides (3-pt shooting; rebounding) for way cheaper...


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Ok, but there is no way Grant is better than Love and that Schorder is top currently anywhere close to top 3 6th man candidate

He's about as good and will be better by next year probably. Schroeder is in the 6moty conversation by most analysts. He's dropped off but he's still top five and borderline top three

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most analysts only care about points. even forgetting about easy picks like domantas sabonis or jonas valanciunas-- someone like monte morris on denver has been far better than dennis schroder this season. he just doesn't score as much.

[slick_watts]

below is a table of all players in the nba who play 20 minutes per game and have come off the bench for half their games or more, sorted by BPM. dennis schroder is 59 of 72.

Spoiler:

[SecondTake]

below is a table of all players in the nba who play 20 minutes per game and have come off the bench for half their games or more, sorted by BPM. dennis schroder is 59 of 72.

Spoiler:

Well sure, that bench would drag anyone down in bpm

[SecondTake]

Ok, but there is no way Grant is better than Love and that Schorder is top currently anywhere close to top 3 6th man candidate

He's about as good and will be better by next year probably. Schroeder is in the 6moty conversation by most analysts. He's dropped off but he's still top five and borderline top three

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most analysts only care about points. even forgetting about easy picks like domantas sabonis or jonas valanciunas-- someone like monte morris on denver has been far better than dennis schroder this season. he just doesn't score as much.

Schroder has having a terrible month clearly, however I don't think that's going to be the norm. He had an amazing November/October and I expect him to find his rhythm again. He can score, he's clutch, he can pass and make plays, he can rebound for his size, he's a pesky defender when he puts his mind to it. He's like a miniature westbrook. Not nearly as good, but thats why hes on the bench. He's a starter quality PG playing as a 6th man, thats a good deal.

[Pillendreher]

I thought he was supposed to make out bench better. Mhh.

[slick_watts]

below is a table of all players in the nba who play 20 minutes per game and have come off the bench for half their games or more, sorted by BPM. dennis schroder is 59 of 72.

Spoiler:

Well sure, that bench would drag anyone down in bpm

bpm has no play-by-play component, meaning it is not sensitive to who a player plays his minutes with on the team. only the number of possessions played is considered. so everyone on the thunder is being affected equally by the poor bench performance as far as bpm is concerned.

unless you're suggesting it's the bench's fault that schroder has been unproductive individually?

Schroder has having a terrible month clearly, however I don't think that's going to be the norm. He had an amazing November/October and I expect him to find his rhythm again. He can score, he's clutch, he can pass and make plays, he can rebound for his size, he's a pesky defender when he puts his mind to it. He's like a miniature westbrook. Not nearly as good, but thats why hes on the bench. He's a starter quality PG playing as a 6th man, thats a good deal.

er, ok. you're free to believe all that stuff. but he's been nowhere close to a top 3 sixth man. that's what i was getting at.

[getrichordie]

below is a table of all players in the nba who play 20 minutes per game and have come off the bench for half their games or more, sorted by BPM. dennis schroder is 59 of 72.

Spoiler:

You aren’t really a 6th man if you are only playing 20 minutes. That’s not a fair comparison. You have to compare apples to apples. Set the bar higher. I would put it at 28.


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[slick_watts]

below is a table of all players in the nba who play 20 minutes per game and have come off the bench for half their games or more, sorted by BPM. dennis schroder is 59 of 72.

Spoiler:

You aren’t really a 6th man if you are only playing 20 minutes. That’s not a fair comparison. You have to compare apples to apples. Set the bar higher. I would put it at 28.


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well, i guess he's better than melo?

it's time to face the facts friend. i admire your tenacity, but you need to know when the battle is over.

[getrichordie]

below is a table of all players in the nba who play 20 minutes per game and have come off the bench for half their games or more, sorted by BPM. dennis schroder is 59 of 72.

Spoiler:

You aren’t really a 6th man if you are only playing 20 minutes. That’s not a fair comparison. You have to compare apples to apples. Set the bar higher. I would put it at 28.


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well, i guess he's better than melo?

it's time to face the facts friend. i admire your tenacity, but you need to know when the battle is over.

I respect your opinions and I admire your research abilities, but I will respectfully disagree. Schroder could very well be traded at the deadline so we will never know, but it’s just a poor fit for him. Value-wise, Schroder is a 6th man at worst that costs $15M. Best case scenario, he’s a middling starting point-guard on the right team.


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[slick_watts]

I respect your opinions and I admire your research abilities, but I will respectfully disagree. Schroder could very well be traded at the deadline so we will never know, but it’s just a poor fit for him.

a poor fit for him? he has a bench all to himself to do whatever he wants, and he gets to play 3rd wheel next to two hall of famers. i can't think of a better situation for him to be in. if he could just make spot up jump shots, at least, he would be useful.

what does schroder do well? i've been waiting for you to answer that simple question.

Value-wise, Schroder is a 6th man at worst that costs $15M. Best case scenario, he’s a middling starting point-guard on the right team.

if the league sentiment was schroder is a (good) 6th man at $15 million then the hawks would have been able to give him away like they were trying to do for awhile. he was traded for dead salary. his season so far has been terrible, so if anything his value has gone down.

[getrichordie]

I respect your opinions and I admire your research abilities, but I will respectfully disagree. Schroder could very well be traded at the deadline so we will never know, but it’s just a poor fit for him.

a poor fit for him? he has a bench all to himself to do whatever he wants, and he gets to play 3rd wheel next to two hall of famers. i can't think of a better situation for him to be in. if he could just make spot up jump shots, at least, he would be useful.

what does schroder do well? i've been waiting for you to answer that simple question.

Value-wise, Schroder is a 6th man at worst that costs $15M. Best case scenario, he’s a middling starting point-guard on the right team.

if the league sentiment was schroder is a (good) 6th man at $15 million then the hawks would have been able to give him away like they were trying to do for awhile. he was traded for dead salary. his season so far has been terrible, so if anything his value has gone down.

I respectfully disagree. Just because one F.O. (a poorly run one at that) decided that they didn’t want Schroder’s problems doesn’t mean that the entire league is in agreement with the Hawks about his value...

We’ve been over this before. There really wasn’t much incentive at the time for any team to trade for Schroder. That doesn’t mean that he’s bad or is un-valuable. You are basically saying that if Schroder was a good player he would definitely have been apart of other team’s plan. We don’t know who tried to trade what for Schroder.

I like to stick with what we know. We know that Atlanta had the opportunity to clear his salary and they chose to do so for their own reasons.


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[slick_watts]

I respectfully disagree. Just because one F.O. (a poorly run one at that) decided that they didn’t want Schroder’s problems doesn’t mean that the entire league is in agreement with the Hawks about his value...

We’ve been over this before. There really wasn’t much incentive at the time for any team to trade for Schroder. That doesn’t mean that he’s bad or is un-valuable. You are basically saying that if Schroder was a good player he would definitely have been apart of other team’s plan. We don’t know who tried to trade what for Schroder.

atlanta was trying to trade schroder for weeks! they could not find any takers until we had an even worse asset we wanted to dump. yes, if schroder was a good player another team would have taken him for free off of atlanta's hands. yes, the inability of atlanta to find a trade partner for a player they wanted to dump for essentially nothing speaks to that player's value.

atlanta's trouble finding takers for schroder last summer was well documented by the atlanta media.

I like to stick with what we know. We know that Atlanta had the opportunity to clear his salary and they chose to do so for their own reasons.

they ate $28 million of the remaining $45 million owed to him when they traded him for anthony and released anthony. the atlanta hawks preferred to eat $28 million of dead money rather than pay schroder to remain on the team any longer. think about that.

[Dn4sty]

I respectfully disagree. Just because one F.O. (a poorly run one at that) decided that they didn’t want Schroder’s problems doesn’t mean that the entire league is in agreement with the Hawks about his value...

We’ve been over this before. There really wasn’t much incentive at the time for any team to trade for Schroder. That doesn’t mean that he’s bad or is un-valuable. You are basically saying that if Schroder was a good player he would definitely have been apart of other team’s plan. We don’t know who tried to trade what for Schroder.

atlanta was trying to trade schroder for weeks! they could not find any takers until we had an even worse asset we wanted to dump. yes, if schroder was a good player another team would have taken him for free off of atlanta's hands. yes, the inability of atlanta to find a trade partner for a player they wanted to dump for essentially nothing speaks to that player's value.

atlanta's trouble finding takers for schroder last summer was well documented by the atlanta media.

I like to stick with what we know. We know that Atlanta had the opportunity to clear his salary and they chose to do so for their own reasons.

they ate $28 million of the remaining $45 million owed to him when they traded him for anthony and released anthony. the atlanta hawks preferred to eat $28 million of dead money rather than pay schroder to remain on the team any longer. think about that.

I think the only path forward (outside of trade), is to make Schorder aware that his “starter” level minutes aren’t a guarantee night in and night out. There are times when it makes sense, yet this was not one of those nights. I think it will be a hard pill to swallow for him, but if he commits to this role, he can have a long and relatively successful career. If he doesn’t he will have career crises in like 5 years (if he makes it that long), where he is out of the league.

[Kizz Fastfists]

make Schorder aware that his “starter” level minutes aren’t a guarantee night in and night out.

Then you get a more disgruntled, less talented version of Reggie Jackson. That sounds very appealing.

[Pillendreher]

I think the only path forward (outside of trade), is to make Schorder aware that his “starter” level minutes aren’t a guarantee night in and night out. There are times when it makes sense, yet this was not one of those nights. I think it will be a hard pill to swallow for him, but if he commits to this role, he can have a long and relatively successful career. If he doesn’t he will have career crises in like 5 years (if he makes it that long), where he is out of the league.

This Schröder issue has been approached the wrong way round right from the start. They have treated him playing with the bench like some nuisance he actually shouldn't have to deal with, but have promised him the starter minutes in return. This should not have happened. The focus should have been that he needs to get the bench to perform well. The minutes with the starters should have depended on the matchup. Yet the bench performance has become a sort of afterthought and the focus has been on his play with the starters.

The main priority has to be the bench. And as long as that unit doesn't perform offensively, the minutes with the starters have to be a privilege, not a right.