2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

[bondom34]

I'm not sure what we're pretending? I mean, he's what I've said, a top 10 center, he's 22, and piles of potential. I see more than Chandler.

What's the real value of the tenth best center? How much better is 10 than 15? If you can get a high upside upgrade then there's no reason to balk at trading Steven. I'm not saying jabari is necessarily that guy, though I'd go for it.

Also Fwiw I just checked the PF RPM and found that jokic and Dieng are both listed as PF's and have more rpm wins than Steven. And there's the prevailing thought that Porzingis will eventually move to center as well.

As for Philly, look at this roster outside Russ.

That's a big 'outside', and Vic would still be the best guard on Philly's roster. But behind that with Russ off and Steven on he is shooting 40%, has a trb% of 14.8, tov% 20.7, the team has a 94.2 O-rtg and 104.9 d-rtg. His rpm would be awful.

10th best at his age? Pretty valuable. Unless there's a 100 percent knockout superstar coming back he's not moving to me (Butler or similar)>. Also he's better than Dieng. And Dieng is a PF, or KAT is either way.

And Philly still has better spacing than OKC. That's where he'd benefit. As would Russ. Embiid's more skilled on offense but if Adams didn't have 5 guys crash the paint every possession it'd help.

[Pillendreher]

Honestly at this point I don't expect a move. If Presti does something and I actually like it I'd be totally amazed. Kanter's dumbass took himself off the market.

We were never gonna trade him anyway. There's no market for guys like him.

[spearsy23]

I'm not sure what we're pretending? I mean, he's what I've said, a top 10 center, he's 22, and piles of potential. I see more than Chandler.

What's the real value of the tenth best center? How much better is 10 than 15? If you can get a high upside upgrade then there's no reason to balk at trading Steven. I'm not saying jabari is necessarily that guy, though I'd go for it.

Also Fwiw I just checked the PF RPM and found that jokic and Dieng are both listed as PF's and have more rpm wins than Steven. And there's the prevailing thought that Porzingis will eventually move to center as well.

As for Philly, look at this roster outside Russ.

That's a big 'outside', and Vic would still be the best guard on Philly's roster. But behind that with Russ off and Steven on he is shooting 40%, has a trb% of 14.8, tov% 20.7, the team has a 94.2 O-rtg and 104.9 d-rtg. His rpm would be awful.

10th best at his age? Pretty valuable. Unless there's a 100 percent knockout superstar coming back he's not moving to me (Butler or similar)>. Also he's better than Dieng. And Dieng is a PF, or KAT is either way.

Dieng and KAT are both centers just like boogie and Koufos both are.

And why is Steven better than Dieng? Similar box score numbers, Dieng with the better RPM wins. Same with mason plumlee. We just kinda ignore that guys like that and cody zeller are all doing very similar things to Steven and accept it for a fact that he's better.

And Philly still has better spacing than OKC. That's where he'd benefit. As would Russ. Embiid's more skilled on offense but if Adams didn't have 5 guys crash the paint every possession it'd help.

Would it help more than not having Russ would hurt? No chance in hell.

[bondom34]

What's the real value of the tenth best center? How much better is 10 than 15? If you can get a high upside upgrade then there's no reason to balk at trading Steven. I'm not saying jabari is necessarily that guy, though I'd go for it.

Also Fwiw I just checked the PF RPM and found that jokic and Dieng are both listed as PF's and have more rpm wins than Steven. And there's the prevailing thought that Porzingis will eventually move to center as well.


That's a big 'outside', and Vic would still be the best guard on Philly's roster. But behind that with Russ off and Steven on he is shooting 40%, has a trb% of 14.8, tov% 20.7, the team has a 94.2 O-rtg and 104.9 d-rtg. His rpm would be awful.

10th best at his age? Pretty valuable. Unless there's a 100 percent knockout superstar coming back he's not moving to me (Butler or similar)>. Also he's better than Dieng. And Dieng is a PF, or KAT is either way.

Dieng and KAT are both centers just like boogie and Koufos both are.

And why is Steven better than Dieng? Similar box score numbers, Dieng with the better RPM wins. Same with mason plumlee. We just kinda ignore that guys like that and cody zeller are all doing very similar things to Steven and accept it for a fact that he's better.

And Philly still has better spacing than OKC. That's where he'd benefit. As would Russ. Embiid's more skilled on offense but if Adams didn't have 5 guys crash the paint every possession it'd help.

Would it help more than not having Russ would hurt? No chance in hell.

Because you'll put up better numbers on bad teams. Dieng's not as good defensively as Adams, and his box numbers are better b/c of his team. Same for Plumlee, who he's just a better defender than. If you put Adams on Philly he'd help the defense a ton. Is he Embiid? No, but he's a damn good player on what's about to be a bargain contract when the cap spike keeps effecting contracts.

[spearsy23]

10th best at his age? Pretty valuable. Unless there's a 100 percent knockout superstar coming back he's not moving to me (Butler or similar)>. Also he's better than Dieng. And Dieng is a PF, or KAT is either way.

Dieng and KAT are both centers just like boogie and Koufos both are.

And why is Steven better than Dieng? Similar box score numbers, Dieng with the better RPM wins. Same with mason plumlee. We just kinda ignore that guys like that and cody zeller are all doing very similar things to Steven and accept it for a fact that he's better.

And Philly still has better spacing than OKC. That's where he'd benefit. As would Russ. Embiid's more skilled on offense but if Adams didn't have 5 guys crash the paint every possession it'd help.

Would it help more than not having Russ would hurt? No chance in hell.

Because you'll put up better numbers on bad teams. Dieng's not as good defensively as Adams, and his box numbers are better b/c of his team. Same for Plumlee, who he's just a better defender than. If you put Adams on Philly he'd help the defense a ton. Is he Embiid? No, but he's a damn good player on what's about to be a bargain contract when the cap spike keeps effecting contracts.

You'll put up better numbers on bad teams? That makes no sense. It's true for volume scorers, but even then efficiency takes a hit. And rpm is adversely effected by being on a bad team. That's just poor justification.

[Pillendreher]

Robes is a great player in the right situation. This is not the right situation. It's not his fault, but what he brings is just less necessary than what a competent offensive player would bring. For what it's worth huestis is shooting 36% from three on over 5 attempts per game. I know he's not as good as robes, but Would it really hurt to try him out while enes is gone? If it keeps singler from playing then it's an automatic plus.

What's the right situation for him tho? What's his role in this league? We had two of the very best players out there and they were forced to do it all by themselves all season long. You can get away with your Center not being a force offensively, but you can't get away with one of your wings just being completely useless on offense.

I doubt there's even another team out there that would give Robes this many minutes. Hell, with this ineptitude on the offensive end, I somewhat doubt he'd even be in the league if it weren't for us. If you have to choose between a great defender, but one of the worst offensive players in the league, and a lesser defender, but competend offensive player, you chose the offensive player.

[spearsy23]

Robes is a great player in the right situation. This is not the right situation. It's not his fault, but what he brings is just less necessary than what a competent offensive player would bring. For what it's worth huestis is shooting 36% from three on over 5 attempts per game. I know he's not as good as robes, but Would it really hurt to try him out while enes is gone? If it keeps singler from playing then it's an automatic plus.

What's the right situation for him tho? What's his role in this league? We had two of the very best players out there and they were forced to do it all by themselves all season long. You can get away with your Center not being a force offensively, but you can't get away with one of your wings just being completely useless on offense.

I doubt there's even another team out there that would give Robes this many minutes. Hell, with this ineptitude on the offensive end, I somewhat doubt he'd even be in the league if it weren't for us. If you have to choose between a great defender, but one of the worst offensive players in the league, and a lesser defender, but competend offensive player, you chose the offensive player.

Us last year is the perfect example. The starters weren't the problem at all, it was the bench.

[Pillendreher]

Robes is a great player in the right situation. This is not the right situation. It's not his fault, but what he brings is just less necessary than what a competent offensive player would bring. For what it's worth huestis is shooting 36% from three on over 5 attempts per game. I know he's not as good as robes, but Would it really hurt to try him out while enes is gone? If it keeps singler from playing then it's an automatic plus.

What's the right situation for him tho? What's his role in this league? We had two of the very best players out there and they were forced to do it all by themselves all season long. You can get away with your Center not being a force offensively, but you can't get away with one of your wings just being completely useless on offense.

I doubt there's even another team out there that would give Robes this many minutes. Hell, with this ineptitude on the offensive end, I somewhat doubt he'd even be in the league if it weren't for us. If you have to choose between a great defender, but one of the worst offensive players in the league, and a lesser defender, but competend offensive player, you chose the offensive player.

Us last year is the perfect example. The starters weren't the problem at all, it was the bench.

That's one way to look at it. An other way is to point out that playing 4vs5 gets the better of you in the end. Furthermore: Saying something that basically doesn't exist in this league (ie two Top 5 players being on the same team) is a 'perfect example' isn't really hurting my case.

[InTheSabonus]

What's the right situation for him tho? What's his role in this league? We had two of the very best players out there and they were forced to do it all by themselves all season long. You can get away with your Center not being a force offensively, but you can't get away with one of your wings just being completely useless on offense.

I doubt there's even another team out there that would give Robes this many minutes. Hell, with this ineptitude on the offensive end, I somewhat doubt he'd even be in the league if it weren't for us. If you have to choose between a great defender, but one of the worst offensive players in the league, and a lesser defender, but competend offensive player, you chose the offensive player.

Us last year is the perfect example. The starters weren't the problem at all, it was the bench.

That's one way to look at it. An other way is to point out that playing 4vs5 gets the better of you in the end. Furthermore: Saying something that basically doesn't exist in this league (ie two Top 5 players being on the same team) is a 'perfect example' isn't really hurting my case.

I've never been a fan of Roberson's role on this team. He's perhaps the biggest example of Presti forcing his vision onto the roster to the detriment of its performance. It became abundantly clear even with Thabo that the all defence-no offence type 2 guard was going to be a problem...and he was a far better shooter for us than Roberson.

What the Warriors did to Tony Allen should have been an indication to Presti of the future of all defence but literally zero offence players in this league, at least when stacking up against contending teams. The last few championship teams all had a 3nD guard to compliment their stars. Klay is a bit of a standout as a "3nD" player but he's one of them, there's Danny Green, JR Smith/Delly, Mario Chalmers...and we've been trying to make do with Roberson. Oh yeah, and if what happened to TA wasn't an indication, then surely what happened to Roberson himself v Golden State is going to be a problem. Green ignored him more than I think I've ever seen any NBA player get ignored on the offensive end, and of course in turn that made it infinitely harder on Russ to drive.

Presti loves his young athletic defenders, but it's time to move on from those that are completely and utterly inept on the offensive end. Even shooting 40% on free throws for god's sake. I wouldn't mind a situational role for Roberson- bring him out when we need to put the clamps on a few superstars, like Harden, but being a regular starter? Averaging 4 three pointers a game on 26% shooting? Some people said the shots would fall when he started stepping into them with confidence. He did this season and that just made him attempt a career high attempt rate, while being as terrible as ever at shooting them.

But we also have Grant and Huestis on the team. I think you can use one roster spot on a defensive specialist that can't score. But we're essentially using 3. With Singler being another wing on the team, who's completely inept on both ends. And Presti gave him a 5 year deal.

I really just don't get Presti's plan with wings. Morrow was fun but hasn't panned out. Caron Butler was...something and Kevin Martin ditched. Don't think much needs to be said about Randy Foye. Waiters is doing well in his newly increased role but he was horribly, terribly inconsistent with us and I'm glad he's gone. But he was still the best backup to Durant we'd had in a while and he wasn't even really a small forward. Durant leaves, now we're stuck with maybe the worst small forward rotation in the league.

[spearsy23]

What's the right situation for him tho? What's his role in this league? We had two of the very best players out there and they were forced to do it all by themselves all season long. You can get away with your Center not being a force offensively, but you can't get away with one of your wings just being completely useless on offense.

I doubt there's even another team out there that would give Robes this many minutes. Hell, with this ineptitude on the offensive end, I somewhat doubt he'd even be in the league if it weren't for us. If you have to choose between a great defender, but one of the worst offensive players in the league, and a lesser defender, but competend offensive player, you chose the offensive player.

Us last year is the perfect example. The starters weren't the problem at all, it was the bench.

That's one way to look at it. An other way is to point out that playing 4vs5 gets the better of you in the end. Furthermore: Saying something that basically doesn't exist in this league (ie two Top 5 players being on the same team) is a 'perfect example' isn't really hurting my case.

Except robes didn't 'get us in the end' a lack of viable NBA talent and a choke job by cupcake did. We didn't have a single positive bench player last year, and yet we should have beat the 73 win warriors.

And there are always multiple teams with more than one superstar. Robes would be fine on golden state, LAC, or Cleveland. He's a 5th starter or a bench player, and shouldn't play more than 25 mpg, but that's presti's fault for putting together such a crap show of a roster around Russ that dre is somehow our best option.

[ThunderBolt]

Top ten ranking at a position is kind of misleading. We get used to hearing it associated with college sports rankings where it's more meaningful. It only means top 1/3. Vic probably cracks the top ten when you think of top ten SG's. I had this discussion on another board. With guys like Curry, Harden and Lillard playing pg, it means Vic's ranking at the position is higher. Between Adams and Vic we have two top ten guys at their position alongside Russ. Next year they'll be paid as if they're stars. It sounds nice but we all know it's not enough to make us much better than 6-8 seed in the west. If we want to build around Russ, no one should be untouchable. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Vic. Idk what we could get for him. Could we pair him with Roberson or Grant for something? Maybe move them for a young prospect and then move Kanter. That would give us cap room for a max guy. The wizards want to keep Porter but they are going to have to make some major changes to keep him. What if we moved Vic, Kanter plus another guy and ended up with Cayley-stein and Porter plus maybe another small piece. Hopefully Abrines can step into the shooting guard role next year

[bondom34]

Dieng and KAT are both centers just like boogie and Koufos both are.

And why is Steven better than Dieng? Similar box score numbers, Dieng with the better RPM wins. Same with mason plumlee. We just kinda ignore that guys like that and cody zeller are all doing very similar things to Steven and accept it for a fact that he's better.


Would it help more than not having Russ would hurt? No chance in hell.

Because you'll put up better numbers on bad teams. Dieng's not as good defensively as Adams, and his box numbers are better b/c of his team. Same for Plumlee, who he's just a better defender than. If you put Adams on Philly he'd help the defense a ton. Is he Embiid? No, but he's a damn good player on what's about to be a bargain contract when the cap spike keeps effecting contracts.

You'll put up better numbers on bad teams? That makes no sense. It's true for volume scorers, but even then efficiency takes a hit. And rpm is adversely effected by being on a bad team. That's just poor justification.

RPM isn't adversely effected by being on a bad team.

And yes, players put up better volume numbers on bad teams. They get more opportunities and efficiency may or may not fall.

Dieng is also 4 years older than Adams and worse efficiency wise.

[spearsy23]

Because you'll put up better numbers on bad teams. Dieng's not as good defensively as Adams, and his box numbers are better b/c of his team. Same for Plumlee, who he's just a better defender than. If you put Adams on Philly he'd help the defense a ton. Is he Embiid? No, but he's a damn good player on what's about to be a bargain contract when the cap spike keeps effecting contracts.

You'll put up better numbers on bad teams? That makes no sense. It's true for volume scorers, but even then efficiency takes a hit. And rpm is adversely effected by being on a bad team. That's just poor justification.

RPM isn't adversely effected by being on a bad team.

And yes, players put up better volume numbers on bad teams. They get more opportunities and efficiency may or may not fall.

Dieng is also 4 years older than Adams and worse efficiency wise.

RPM is definitely effected by how good your team is. Zaza is top 5 in RPM. And yes he's worse than Adams, that doesn't change that they're putting up similar numbers with similar RPM's. The point is that Steven is getting a basically max contract for an impact that is closer to zeller/Dieng/plumlee/etc than to gobert/Gasol/Jordan. Calling him a top 10. center is fair, but the difference between like 7-15 is smaller than 7 and 5.

[bondom34]

You'll put up better numbers on bad teams? That makes no sense. It's true for volume scorers, but even then efficiency takes a hit. And rpm is adversely effected by being on a bad team. That's just poor justification.

RPM isn't adversely effected by being on a bad team.

And yes, players put up better volume numbers on bad teams. They get more opportunities and efficiency may or may not fall.

Dieng is also 4 years older than Adams and worse efficiency wise.

RPM is definitely effected by how good your team is. Zaza is top 5 in RPM. And yes he's worse than Adams, that doesn't change that they're putting up similar numbers with similar RPM's. The point is that Steven is getting a basically max contract for an impact that is closer to zeller/Dieng/plumlee/etc than to gobert/Gasol/Jordan. Calling him a top 10. center is fair, but the difference between like 7-15 is smaller than 7 and 5.

Zaza was literally first 2 years ago.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2015/sort/RPM/position/9

And he's getting a max at the lowest salary tier, the year before the cap increases even more the next 3 years.

So in 2 years when other guys are getting 28/year will he be a better player?

[retrobro90]

Jared Dudley doesn't really fit with Phoenix's current timeline and he's locked into a relatively friendly contract until the end of 2019. Could really help with our spacing and lack of forwards/ veterans.

[ThunderBolt]

Kanter is hurt so anyone who might have wanted him, doesn't anymore. Every time Payne steps on the court, his value becomes closer to Christon. Unless we trade Russ and tank, how is a move even possible? Russ deserves better and at this point, i don't know how we can give him, that. This roster is so bad.

[Pillendreher]

Kanter is hurt so anyone who might have wanted him, doesn't anymore. Every time Payne steps on the court, his value becomes closer to Christon. Unless we trade Russ and tank, how is a move even possible? Russ deserves better and at this point, idk how we can give hi, that. This roster is so bad.

Don't worry. We're spending $ 9.128 million on Christon, Price, Singler and Huestis this season. Something good has to happen eventually.

[ThunderBolt]

Kanter is hurt so anyone who might have wanted him, doesn't anymore. Every time Payne steps on the court, his value becomes closer to Christon. Unless we trade Russ and tank, how is a move even possible? Russ deserves better and at this point, idk how we can give hi, that. This roster is so bad.

Don't worry. We're spending $ 9.128 million on Christon, Price, Singler and Huestis this season. Something good has to happen eventually.

I think it was Traber who said that only once has Presti used a trade exception. If this is true, it makes the Ilyasova/Grant trade more mind boggling.

[Pillendreher]

Kanter is hurt so anyone who might have wanted him, doesn't anymore. Every time Payne steps on the court, his value becomes closer to Christon. Unless we trade Russ and tank, how is a move even possible? Russ deserves better and at this point, idk how we can give hi, that. This roster is so bad.

Don't worry. We're spending $ 9.128 million on Christon, Price, Singler and Huestis this season. Something good has to happen eventually.

I think it was Traber who said that only once has Presti used a trade exception. If this is true, it makes the Ilyasova/Grant trade more mind boggling.

It woud guess it is. It's an inside joke on DT that we're always getting TPEs, but never use them. That's just part of the big Presti problem though: Always preaching 'flexibility', but never acting on it.

After trading Harden, besides drafting, he basically stood pat all the time. And when he actually did something, he made the team worse.
We're in this cycle of sucking besides our main superstar(s) and once we dump Payne and Robes at the deadline (which we will), we'll start over yet again.

[bondom34]