WCQF | (4) Oklahoma City Thunder vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 4-2

[Atomic Punk]

Both. He's that much better defensively that he's better overall. Being objective I don't think many would say otherwise (if you'd like we can try the PC board, I'd be up for a thread there )

No, I’m good. I know where you stand now, no need to take it further.

Are you afraid you may be wrong? Because I'm honestly interested. THis is the team you said wasn't talented.

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Not afraid at all, I am perfectly comfortable with my position. I never said the Jazz wasn’t talented, I said that the Thunder has more talent, that’s all. And in my opinion, PG is a better player overall than Gobert. If you feel that the opposite is true, that’s fine with me.

[bondom34]

I'd love to see your argument for him over KAT.

KAT's a trainwreck on defense. Look at what happened when Butler went out. Look at what happened when Gobert went out.
That's a pretty strong case. KAT isn't close, he's Kanter level defense at times and Minny's going nowhere w/o Butler. Utah's going nowhere without Gobert.

Is defense more important than offense?

No, but he's not that good on offense.

FWIW, started a PC thread mainly because I'm bored.

Has PG too.

viewtopic.php?f=64&p=65294597#p65294597

[bondom34]

No, I’m good. I know where you stand now, no need to take it further.

Are you afraid you may be wrong? Because I'm honestly interested. THis is the team you said wasn't talented.

Read on Twitter

Not afraid at all, I am perfectly comfortable with my position. I never said the Jazz wasn’t talented, I said that the Thunder has more talent, that’s all. And in my opinion, PG is a better player overall than Gobert. If you feel that the opposite is true, that’s fine with me.

I have nothing to do tonight so started it anyway .

[Atomic Punk]

Are you afraid you may be wrong? Because I'm honestly interested. THis is the team you said wasn't talented.

Read on Twitter

Not afraid at all, I am perfectly comfortable with my position. I never said the Jazz wasn’t talented, I said that the Thunder has more talent, that’s all. And in my opinion, PG is a better player overall than Gobert. If you feel that the opposite is true, that’s fine with me.

I have nothing to do tonight so started it anyway .

And I have homework to do tonight, so I will pass. I will check on the results tomorrow though, honestly interested in what others think.

[bondom34]

Not afraid at all, I am perfectly comfortable with my position. I never said the Jazz wasn’t talented, I said that the Thunder has more talent, that’s all. And in my opinion, PG is a better player overall than Gobert. If you feel that the opposite is true, that’s fine with me.

I have nothing to do tonight so started it anyway .

And I have homework to do tonight, so I will pass. I will check on the results tomorrow though, honestly interested in what others think.

Who does homework? Pfffft....

I kid I kid, and I'm old. Enjoy your studies!

[spearsy23]

KAT's a trainwreck on defense. Look at what happened when Butler went out. Look at what happened when Gobert went out.
That's a pretty strong case. KAT isn't close, he's Kanter level defense at times and Minny's going nowhere w/o Butler. Utah's going nowhere without Gobert.

Is defense more important than offense?

No, but he's not that good on offense.

FWIW, started a PC thread mainly because I'm bored.

Has PG too.

viewtopic.php?f=64&p=65294597#p65294597

I'm not interested in the PC board defending your argument. I want you to. And KAT isn't that good on offense? That's just an awful stance.

How are you quantifying gobert's defense?

[Atomic Punk]

I have nothing to do tonight so started it anyway .

And I have homework to do tonight, so I will pass. I will check on the results tomorrow though, honestly interested in what others think.

Who does homework? Pfffft....

I kid I kid, and I'm old. Enjoy your studies!

I think that I am a bit older than you my friend, went back to school to earn my MBA (in my late 40’s). Homework still stinks.....

[slick_watts]

gobert v. kat. polar opposites. gobert has more positional value though imo because it's so hard to have a competent defense with a big who doesn't defend (i.e. kat). but you can still field a competent offense with a big like gobert who is nothing special on that end. gobert has considerable separation on drpm between himself and other starting centers.

i'd call gobert top 10 this season but i wouldn't fight too hard against someone that disagrees. it gets pretty murky at the bottom there. maybe top 15 comfortably. i think he's better than george.

[slick_watts]

And I have homework to do tonight, so I will pass. I will check on the results tomorrow though, honestly interested in what others think.

Who does homework? Pfffft....

I kid I kid, and I'm old. Enjoy your studies!

I think that I am a bit older than you my friend, went back to school to earn my MBA (in my late 40’s). Homework still stinks.....

did you post on sonics realgm or sonicscentral? what was your handle?

[bondom34]

Is defense more important than offense?

No, but he's not that good on offense.

FWIW, started a PC thread mainly because I'm bored.

Has PG too.

viewtopic.php?f=64&p=65294597#p65294597

I'm not interested in the PC board defending your argument. I want you to. And KAT isn't that good on offense? That's just an awful stance.

How are you quantifying gobert's defense?

Utah going from a 10 seed to Golden State when he returned seems a good argument. As does RPM, RAPM, on/off, lineups, and pretty much everything else he's done while KAT's team is in the lottery when he's playing without a better player than him. I can't imagine an argument for KAT that doesn't entirely rely on PPGZ

[bondom34]

And I have homework to do tonight, so I will pass. I will check on the results tomorrow though, honestly interested in what others think.

Who does homework? Pfffft....

I kid I kid, and I'm old. Enjoy your studies!

I think that I am a bit older than you my friend, went back to school to earn my MBA (in my late 40’s). Homework still stinks.....

You win (early 30s), and good on you man! I couldn't go back after I'm out from my masters.

[bondom34]

gobert v. kat. polar opposites. gobert has more positional value though imo because it's so hard to have a competent defense with a big who doesn't defend (i.e. kat). but you can still field a competent offense with a big like gobert who is nothing special on that end. gobert has considerable separation on drpm between himself and other starting centers.

i'd call gobert top 10 this season but i wouldn't fight too hard against someone that disagrees. it gets pretty murky at the bottom there. maybe top 15 comfortably. i think he's better than george.

This is exactly how I feel. Positional value is a big thing, a big who can't defend isn't as valuable.

[Old Man Game]

Went to the game tonight. First game of the year to make it to. Great game to attend. PG was flat out humiliating Royce O'Neale.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

[dakomish23]

1 down, 15 to go

PG was on fire. Westbrook was great. Everyone else filled in nicely and there’s still another level they can go.

See what happens when they make their FTs?

[dakomish23]

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[dakomish23]

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[dakomish23]

Went to the game tonight. First game of the year to make it to. Great game to attend. PG was flat out humiliating Royce O'Neale.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

Picked a good one. Hope you didn’t get burned by the PG flamethrower

[spearsy23]

No, but he's not that good on offense.

FWIW, started a PC thread mainly because I'm bored.

Has PG too.

viewtopic.php?f=64&p=65294597#p65294597

I'm not interested in the PC board defending your argument. I want you to. And KAT isn't that good on offense? That's just an awful stance.

How are you quantifying gobert's defense?

Utah going from a 10 seed to Golden State when he returned seems a good argument. As does RPM, RAPM, on/off, lineups, and pretty much everything else he's done while KAT's team is in the lottery when he's playing without a better player than him. I can't imagine an argument for KAT that doesn't entirely rely on PPGZ

You can't imagine an argument for the guy with the better impact stats than PPGZ? That's a lack of creativity on your part. Towns had more PPGZ, rebounds, assists, fewer turnovers, a better on/off, a better RPM, BPM, VORP, and played in all 82 games. I'm finding it tough to find reasons to consider Gobert better outside of playing on a better team.

[bondom34]

I'm not interested in the PC board defending your argument. I want you to. And KAT isn't that good on offense? That's just an awful stance.

How are you quantifying gobert's defense?

Utah going from a 10 seed to Golden State when he returned seems a good argument. As does RPM, RAPM, on/off, lineups, and pretty much everything else he's done while KAT's team is in the lottery when he's playing without a better player than him. I can't imagine an argument for KAT that doesn't entirely rely on PPGZ

You can't imagine an argument for the guy with the better impact stats than PPGZ? That's a lack of creativity on your part. Towns had more PPGZ, rebounds, assists, fewer turnovers, a better on/off, a better RPM, BPM, VORP, and played in all 82 games. I'm finding it tough to find reasons to consider Gobert better outside of playing on a better team.

I already listed a few, but being a defensive sieve at center is substantially decreasing value. Guards who tank on offense and bigs on defense aren't as vaulable. It's why MIN has struggled to win at all despite better counting stats.

[spearsy23]

gobert v. kat. polar opposites. gobert has more positional value though imo because it's so hard to have a competent defense with a big who doesn't defend (i.e. kat). but you can still field a competent offense with a big like gobert who is nothing special on that end. gobert has considerable separation on drpm between himself and other starting centers.

i'd call gobert top 10 this season but i wouldn't fight too hard against someone that disagrees. it gets pretty murky at the bottom there. maybe top 15 comfortably. i think he's better than george.

This is exactly how I feel. Positional value is a big thing, a big who can't defend isn't as valuable.

This is the ONLY argument that works in favor of Gobert. But It's tough to buy when we have impact stats that quantify team impact on both sides of the ball, does it matter if it's impossible to build a great defense around a guy if you have an all time elite offense with him? Also its now much easier to build an offense when your big can shoot, so does Gobert hurt an offense more than KAT hurts a defense? According to RPM the answer is yes. According to On/Off the answer is yes.