Thunder Offseason Thread

[slick_watts]

Griffin just got surgery. Also, it's not really shocking at all. Everyone knew the back half of that contract was bad. Its still not near 2nd worst. It's ina group of max level deals for guys about his age that won't age well. Exactly what was expected.

i don't think anyone expected westbrook to be this player this soon. even i wouldn't have predicted it.

OK, still doesn't change the point.

i don't think westbrook's trajectory since the extension was signed has been 'exactly what was expected' by anyone. maybe a maniac like kizz. yes, agreed, there are other super-max deals that are comparatively similar. westbrook's two seasons of linear decline are very concerning though. not that griffin's surgery, paul's age, or love's whatever are not.

the back-end of westbrook's deal looks a lot more foreboding now than it did on september 29, 2017. agreed?

[bondom34]

i don't think anyone expected westbrook to be this player this soon. even i wouldn't have predicted it.

OK, still doesn't change the point.

i don't think westbrook's trajectory since the extension was signed has been 'exactly what was expected' by anyone. maybe a maniac like kizz. yes, agreed, there are other super-max deals that are comparatively similar. westbrook's two seasons of linear decline are very concerning though. not that griffin's surgery, paul's age, or love's whatever are not.

the back-end of westbrook's deal looks a lot more foreboding now than it did on september 29, 2017. agreed?

I don't think so. There's only so far a player can decline. At a certain point it's just sunk cost. That's how I've always seen it. It's like the rest, going to be end career Kobe.

[slick_watts]

OK, still doesn't change the point.

i don't think westbrook's trajectory since the extension was signed has been 'exactly what was expected' by anyone. maybe a maniac like kizz. yes, agreed, there are other super-max deals that are comparatively similar. westbrook's two seasons of linear decline are very concerning though. not that griffin's surgery, paul's age, or love's whatever are not.

the back-end of westbrook's deal looks a lot more foreboding now than it did on september 29, 2017. agreed?

I don't think so. There's only so far a player can decline. At a certain point it's just sunk cost. That's how I've always seen it.

a portion of westbrook's salary in those later years would always have had to be considered sunk cost, yes. but there's certainly a wide range of variability as to where 34 year old westbrook will be in terms of impact. here's 538 CARMELO from the beginning of the season:



my guess is that range for '21 and '22 will be much narrower and lower on impact going into next season. i don't think for a player of westbrook's caliber there's only so far a player can decline. he's not in his late 30's. even dirk was in active decline late into this career, and wade.

and if we're being honest i think everyone had an idea of what westbrook would look like at age 34 and that idea of him has lost luster over the course of the last couple seasons of decline.

[Pillendreher]

slick_watts is Darnell Mayberry:

Read on Twitter

At no point in Oklahoma City’s history has the franchise so closely mirrored its mercurial superstar point guard. The Thunder have completely morphed into Westbrook’s image, taking on his traits and picking up his personality.

[slick_watts]

slick_watts is Darnell Mayberry:

Read on Twitter

At no point in Oklahoma City’s history has the franchise so closely mirrored its mercurial superstar point guard. The Thunder have completely morphed into Westbrook’s image, taking on his traits and picking up his personality.

i hope dawson and darnell can find erik horne a safe landing spot after he's eviscerated.

[bondom34]

i don't think westbrook's trajectory since the extension was signed has been 'exactly what was expected' by anyone. maybe a maniac like kizz. yes, agreed, there are other super-max deals that are comparatively similar. westbrook's two seasons of linear decline are very concerning though. not that griffin's surgery, paul's age, or love's whatever are not.

the back-end of westbrook's deal looks a lot more foreboding now than it did on september 29, 2017. agreed?

I don't think so. There's only so far a player can decline. At a certain point it's just sunk cost. That's how I've always seen it.

a portion of westbrook's salary in those later years would always have had to be considered sunk cost, yes. but there's certainly a wide range of variability as to where 34 year old westbrook will be in terms of impact. here's 538 CARMELO from the beginning of the season:



my guess is that range for '21 and '22 will be much narrower and lower on impact going into next season. i don't think for a player of westbrook's caliber there's only so far a player can decline. he's not in his late 30's. even dirk was in active decline late into this career, and wade.

and if we're being honest i think everyone had an idea of what westbrook would look like at age 34 and that idea of him has lost luster over the course of the last couple seasons of decline.

I think everyone expected it to be bad. And it is. It's still not near 2nd worst in the NBA, and would have quite a few teams going for him.

As for Mayberry, it is just a little funny he's now become so full of praise for the Bulls organization.

[slick_watts]

In deliberate but desperate attempts to stay relevant and remain a high-level playoff contender, Presti put his trust in Westbrook. Together, they have given millions memories that will last a lifetime. But in successfully keeping the franchise out of the sewer, they steered the Thunder straight into the current hellhole, a place they never wanted to be, stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity.

darnell is spitting fire!

[SecondTake]

Marcus Morris about his brother in OKC....

“I feel like they got outcoached...And I’m not a coach or anything like that, but I feel like they just didn’t utilize their bench enough. I feel like my brother went over there for no reason. He never got an opportunity to play. I thought that he would really help them in the playoffs, but from what I seen he should have went somewhere else just to be able to show that veteran leadership and that experience. I didn’t think he got the opportunity in OKC. I think that was another big reason why they lost. I didn’t feel like they utilized all the guys they had – at all. In the NBA, these are all NBA players. And I wouldn’t even pay attention to them as much if he wasn’t on the team. I wouldn’t even really care how they coached. I don’t give a damn if they lost or won, but just the fact that he’s my brother and I know what he brings to the table, I know what we both bring to the table, I felt like OKC didn’t do him no justice," added Morris.

[slick_watts]

Marcus Morris about his brother in OKC....

“I feel like they got outcoached...And I’m not a coach or anything like that, but I feel like they just didn’t utilize their bench enough. I feel like my brother went over there for no reason. He never got an opportunity to play. I thought that he would really help them in the playoffs, but from what I seen he should have went somewhere else just to be able to show that veteran leadership and that experience. I didn’t think he got the opportunity in OKC. I think that was another big reason why they lost. I didn’t feel like they utilized all the guys they had – at all. In the NBA, these are all NBA players. And I wouldn’t even pay attention to them as much if he wasn’t on the team. I wouldn’t even really care how they coached. I don’t give a damn if they lost or won, but just the fact that he’s my brother and I know what he brings to the table, I know what we both bring to the table, I felt like OKC didn’t do him no justice," added Morris.

marcus is really sticking his neck out on this one.

[bondom34]

Yeah Darnell crediting Durant with GSW's dynasty.

And adding:

Remember, too, that Westbrook, George and Adams remain a tremendous starting point. On paper, there aren’t five teams better positioned for both short and long-term success. I’d trade places with Golden State, Denver, Sacramento and Milwaukee. The rest are on par with the Thunder (Utah, San Antonio, Portland), miles away (Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Memphis, Phoenix), facing too much uncertainty (Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto), or just kind of there.

[ThunderBolt]

I don’t tbink there is anyone more weary of Russ’ style of play than myself. However Darnell clearly has a personal vendetta again the organization. This is excessive.

[slick_watts]

Yeah Darnell crediting Durant with GSW's dynasty.

And adding:

Remember, too, that Westbrook, George and Adams remain a tremendous starting point. On paper, there aren’t five teams better positioned for both short and long-term success. I’d trade places with Golden State, Denver, Sacramento and Milwaukee. The rest are on par with the Thunder (Utah, San Antonio, Portland), miles away (Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Memphis, Phoenix), facing too much uncertainty (Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto), or just kind of there.

it's a good article. i miss darnell.

[bondom34]

Yeah Darnell crediting Durant with GSW's dynasty.

And adding:

Remember, too, that Westbrook, George and Adams remain a tremendous starting point. On paper, there aren’t five teams better positioned for both short and long-term success. I’d trade places with Golden State, Denver, Sacramento and Milwaukee. The rest are on par with the Thunder (Utah, San Antonio, Portland), miles away (Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Memphis, Phoenix), facing too much uncertainty (Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto), or just kind of there.

it's a good article. i miss darnell.

It's mostly decent, but he had a few headscratchers that were quite bad. Like they're a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. And the Durant line.

He's also gone a bit off the rails on Westbrook (not here but prior in comments sections he's cursed him out before I remember), and he's become a bit of a Bulls homer at times. So basically what the OKC media is accused of.

Edit: What Thunderbolt said. He's got a grudge.

[slick_watts]

Yeah Darnell crediting Durant with GSW's dynasty.

And adding:

it's a good article. i miss darnell.

It's mostly solid, but he had a few headscratchers. Like they're a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. And the Durant line.

He's also gone a bit off the rails on Westbrook (not here but prior in comments sections he's cursed him out before I remember), and he's become a bit of a Bulls homer at times. So basically what the OKC media is accused of.

reporters like darnell suck at deep analysis. but that's not really their job. darnell's always been good at reporting. we are for sure a treadmill team. and the individualism / hero worship culture sam has developed has tangible downsides.

i'd have liked more anecdotes from his time in okc in support of some of his claims though.

of course he has a grudge. that doesn't de-value his thoughts though. just like when you accuse me of trolling it doesn't have any bearing on whether what i say is accurate or not.

[bondom34]

it's a good article. i miss darnell.

It's mostly solid, but he had a few headscratchers. Like they're a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. And the Durant line.

He's also gone a bit off the rails on Westbrook (not here but prior in comments sections he's cursed him out before I remember), and he's become a bit of a Bulls homer at times. So basically what the OKC media is accused of.

reporters like darnell suck at deep analysis. but that's not really their job. darnell's always been good at reporting. we are for sure a treadmill team. and the individualism / hero worship culture sam has developed has tangible downsides.

i'd have liked more anecdotes from his time in okc in support of some of his claims though.

of course he has a grudge. that doesn't de-value his thoughts though. just like when you accuse me of trolling it doesn't have any bearing on whether what i say is accurate or not.

So a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. What a treadmill that is.

[slick_watts]

It's mostly solid, but he had a few headscratchers. Like they're a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. And the Durant line.

He's also gone a bit off the rails on Westbrook (not here but prior in comments sections he's cursed him out before I remember), and he's become a bit of a Bulls homer at times. So basically what the OKC media is accused of.

reporters like darnell suck at deep analysis. but that's not really their job. darnell's always been good at reporting. we are for sure a treadmill team. and the individualism / hero worship culture sam has developed has tangible downsides.

i'd have liked more anecdotes from his time in okc in support of some of his claims though.

of course he has a grudge. that doesn't de-value his thoughts though. just like when you accuse me of trolling it doesn't have any bearing on whether what i say is accurate or not.

So a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. What a treadmill that is.

we're obviously not a top 5 team, bondom.

[bondom34]

reporters like darnell suck at deep analysis. but that's not really their job. darnell's always been good at reporting. we are for sure a treadmill team. and the individualism / hero worship culture sam has developed has tangible downsides.

i'd have liked more anecdotes from his time in okc in support of some of his claims though.

of course he has a grudge. that doesn't de-value his thoughts though. just like when you accuse me of trolling it doesn't have any bearing on whether what i say is accurate or not.

So a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. What a treadmill that is.

we're obviously not a top 5 team, bondom.

But Darnell said it.

[slick_watts]

So a treadmill team with a top 5 roster. What a treadmill that is.

we're obviously not a top 5 team, bondom.

But Darnell said it.

do you only value the opinions of people who are correct 100% of the time? i don't think anyone would disagree that darnell's precise ranking of the thunder's short and long term prospects is more than a bit gracious. and i don't think that ranking really matters in the service of the message he's trying to convey.

[bondom34]

we're obviously not a top 5 team, bondom.

But Darnell said it.

do you only value the opinions of people who are correct 100% of the time? i don't think anyone would disagree that darnell's precise ranking of the thunder's short and long term prospects is more than a bit gracious. and i don't think that ranking really matters in the service of the message he's trying to convey.

So you think he's right when he says they're treadmill but wrong when he directly contradicts that. OK. Have a nice day. Not doing this again, this is why I mostly stopped posting here.

[slick_watts]

But Darnell said it.

do you only value the opinions of people who are correct 100% of the time? i don't think anyone would disagree that darnell's precise ranking of the thunder's short and long term prospects is more than a bit gracious. and i don't think that ranking really matters in the service of the message he's trying to convey.

So you think he's right when he says they're treadmill but wrong when he directly contradicts that. OK. Have a nice day. Not doing this again, this is why I mostly stopped posting here.

watch out guys. if you say anything that isn't precisely correct or is contradictory in the slightest around bondom34, he will immediately de-value every opinion you have in principle.