2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

[Pillendreher]

he's about league average 3pt for his career on 1300+ attempts and elite defense at multiple positions. i think that'd be valuable to a lot of teams, especially a contending team that wants to add him + other pieces. easy to fit $1.5mm of salary into the cap sheet.

I'm not saying that he's not a decent enough player. I'm saying he's not that good of a 3pt shooter and that his very cheap contract will be a thing of the past in just a year's time. What kind of contract will he get? Is 60/4 totally improbable?

I feel like the same thing happens to those young, unexpected contributors. They come out of nowhere, but once that 'WHO'S THAT' feeling passes and they sign their first contract, the 'hype' is over. Look at Miami's young guys. Both got paid. Now they have to live up to that. It doesn't really matter that they were cheap as **** only a couple of months ago.

the nets signed tyler johnson to a 4/50 offer sheet that miami matched so to say covington wouldn't be desirable using johnson as an example...?

johnson's right below derozan and above w. matthews on sg rpm and making way less than either than them.

covington would be highly desirable if he was made available via trade.

I'm not saying they're bad or whatever. What I mean is that a lot of the intrigue about them comes from their cheap contracts, but they're only on cheap contracts for so long.

[slick_watts]

I'm not saying that he's not a decent enough player. I'm saying he's not that good of a 3pt shooter and that his very cheap contract will be a thing of the past in just a year's time. What kind of contract will he get? Is 60/4 totally improbable?

I feel like the same thing happens to those young, unexpected contributors. They come out of nowhere, but once that 'WHO'S THAT' feeling passes and they sign their first contract, the 'hype' is over. Look at Miami's young guys. Both got paid. Now they have to live up to that. It doesn't really matter that they were cheap as **** only a couple of months ago.

the nets signed tyler johnson to a 4/50 offer sheet that miami matched so to say covington wouldn't be desirable using johnson as an example...?

johnson's right below derozan and above w. matthews on sg rpm and making way less than either than them.

covington would be highly desirable if he was made available via trade.

I'm not saying they're bad or whatever. What I mean is that a lot of the intrigue about them comes from their cheap contracts, but they're only on cheap contracts for so long.

they tend to stay at cheap contracts though.

[jambalaya]

I didn"t look it up before but:

"Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Trading_and_the_salary_cap

I dunno if that last part still applies. Maybe not. Should be removed if it doesn't.

[spearsy23]

Playing the off-season mock GMAT. Thoughts on
Lavine/Dieng/Rubio or Tyus Jones
For
Oladipo/kantet

[spearsy23]

the nets signed tyler johnson to a 4/50 offer sheet that miami matched so to say covington wouldn't be desirable using johnson as an example...?

johnson's right below derozan and above w. matthews on sg rpm and making way less than either than them.

covington would be highly desirable if he was made available via trade.

I'm not saying they're bad or whatever. What I mean is that a lot of the intrigue about them comes from their cheap contracts, but they're only on cheap contracts for so long.

they tend to stay at cheap contracts though.

I think this is one of the markets biggest inefficiencies to be exploited. Players viewed negatively on draft day tend to remain undervalued (or maybe appropriately valued is a better term) for most of their careers. Conversely, a guy like Oladipo tends to get overvalued for most of his career based on first impressions and perceived upside.

[bbms]

What would it take to get Robert Covington? He ought to be a little easier to acquire than an Otto Porter/Harrison Barnes. He's only 26, which is great. What do we offer? Roberson? Sabonis?

Covington's one of the best wing defenders in the league and a very capable 3-point shooter. We can't offer anything Philly would want.

I think they'd be open to talk about draft picks, specially the conditional one we gave them in exchange for Jerami Grant.

[Andre Roberstan]

What would it take to get Robert Covington? He ought to be a little easier to acquire than an Otto Porter/Harrison Barnes. He's only 26, which is great. What do we offer? Roberson? Sabonis?

Covington's one of the best wing defenders in the league and a very capable 3-point shooter. We can't offer anything Philly would want.

We could lower the restrictions on the 2020 conditional first round pick the Thunder sent them in exchange of Jerami Grant.

We could. That prospect worries me a lot though.

[Kizz Fastfists]

We could lower the restrictions on the 2020 conditional first round pick the Thunder sent them in exchange of Jerami Grant.

Assuming Russ signs an extension, which is the only reason to pursue a player like Covington, why would that interest Philly? If Russ stays they expect the pick in 2020 and if he leaves OKC isn't going to lower the restrictions on a pick when they expect to miss the playoffs. If Russ leaves then Philly ends up with two 2nd round picks. It's not like Philly either gets a late first or nothing they either get a late first or a pair of decent 2nd round picks which they can use on draft and stash players or a player with first round talent but a red flag like injury or attitude.

[bbms]

Covington's one of the best wing defenders in the league and a very capable 3-point shooter. We can't offer anything Philly would want.

We could lower the restrictions on the 2020 conditional first round pick the Thunder sent them in exchange of Jerami Grant.

We could. That prospect worries me a lot though.

How about this:

I think we'd be fine if Covington was our "first round pick" in 2017 class.

Grant + 2017 1st pick + future seconds for Covington + waiving on the conditional 2020 pick owed.

[getrichordie]

We could lower the restrictions on the 2020 conditional first round pick the Thunder sent them in exchange of Jerami Grant.

We could. That prospect worries me a lot though.

How about this:

I think we'd be fine if Covington was our "first round pick" in 2017 class.

Grant + 2017 1st pick + future seconds for Covington + waiving on the conditional 2020 pick owed.

How much are you willing to pay Covington in next years offseason?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[getrichordie]

Playing the off-season mock GMAT. Thoughts on
Lavine/Dieng/Rubio or Tyus Jones
For
Oladipo/kantet

Risky with Lavine's injury and Dieng's contract. You'll have to pay Lavine the max next offseason and you are paying Dieng 15 mil a year and you lose Rubio in a couple of years. Not sure how that holds up flexibility wise but that would be a fun roster to watch.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Dn4sty]

Playing the off-season mock GMAT. Thoughts on
Lavine/Dieng/Rubio or Tyus Jones
For
Oladipo/kantet

Saw where the Nets guy is going to let Kilpatrick become a UFA this summer in that mock off season. See if you can give him Bulls 2018 2nd or something for him. Or Bulls 2018 2nd, cash and Singler for Kilpatrick.

If you make the trade to acquire Kilpatrick then I'd be completely cool with moving Dipo.

[Funcrusher]

What would it take to get Robert Covington? He ought to be a little easier to acquire than an Otto Porter/Harrison Barnes. He's only 26, which is great. What do we offer? Roberson? Sabonis?

Covington's one of the best wing defenders in the league and a very capable 3-point shooter. We can't offer anything Philly would want.

Bro, come on. I literally proposed, pages back, we try to package Oladipo with draft picks or Mcdermott/Singler for Covington/Mconell or Covington/Holmes. No one answered me. That's not a possible trade? Especially considering that next year, Philadelphia would need to add on to their salary to be above the salary floor.

Oladipo might not be unilaterally more valuable than covington, but, considering the circumstances for philly (who's biggest issue coming into next season position wise seems to be shooting guard) they could use a player like Oladipo.

I mean, I get that we're in a **** position, but come on. At a certain point we have to be confident in the value our players can offer to certain teams. What point is their to this endless cycle of proposing trades, then dismissing those trades as bull, whining about how **** we are, then rinse and repeat?

[Andre Roberstan]

What would it take to get Robert Covington? He ought to be a little easier to acquire than an Otto Porter/Harrison Barnes. He's only 26, which is great. What do we offer? Roberson? Sabonis?

Covington's one of the best wing defenders in the league and a very capable 3-point shooter. We can't offer anything Philly would want.

Bro, come on. I literally proposed, pages back, we try to package Oladipo with draft picks or Mcdermott/Singler for Covington/Mconell or Covington/Holmes. No one answered me. That's not a possible trade? Especially considering that next year, Philadelphia would need to add on to their salary to be above the salary floor.

Oladipo might not be unilaterally more valuable than covington, but, considering the circumstances for philly (who's biggest issue coming into next season position wise seems to be shooting guard) they could use a player like Oladipo.

I mean, I get that we're in a **** position, but come on. At a certain point we have to be confident in the value our players can offer to certain teams. What point is their to this endless cycle of proposing trades, then dismissing those trades as bull, whining about how **** we are, then rinse and repeat?

Must have missed it. Honestly I'm not sure if Philly does it.

Philly has no reason to care that much about the salary floor. They have no reason to take on Oladipo's salary for the marginal extra utility. They'll have their pick of guards in the draft and no reason to accelerate the timetable, unless Colangelo is impatient. And Oladipo's better talent-wise, but they already have a lot of guys who aren't awesome shooters. Oladipo's a sidegrade for the roster as-is.

I get your point about Oladipo being a good piece for them, but if we trade for Covington all we're doing is kicking the salary problem a year down the road, and then we have LESS playmaking. If it were as a part of something else, sure. But Oladipo's one of the few pieces we have that has good value, and if you trade for Covington your new starting lineup is probably Russ/Robes/Covington/Gibson(Sabonis?)/Adams. Which makes an already bad playmaking issue worse. You'd have to add playmaking at either SG or PF to make the lineup work.

Don't get me wrong. If it's as part of a move for something else, great. Covington and Holmes help a lot and make Roberson and Kanter expendable. But Philly has to accept, which I don't know if they would, and OKC has to have something lined up for a good 2 or 4.

[Funcrusher]

Covington's one of the best wing defenders in the league and a very capable 3-point shooter. We can't offer anything Philly would want.

Bro, come on. I literally proposed, pages back, we try to package Oladipo with draft picks or Mcdermott/Singler for Covington/Mconell or Covington/Holmes. No one answered me. That's not a possible trade? Especially considering that next year, Philadelphia would need to add on to their salary to be above the salary floor.

Oladipo might not be unilaterally more valuable than covington, but, considering the circumstances for philly (who's biggest issue coming into next season position wise seems to be shooting guard) they could use a player like Oladipo.

I mean, I get that we're in a **** position, but come on. At a certain point we have to be confident in the value our players can offer to certain teams. What point is their to this endless cycle of proposing trades, then dismissing those trades as bull, whining about how **** we are, then rinse and repeat?

Must have missed it. Honestly I'm not sure if Philly does it.

Philly has no reason to care that much about the salary floor. They have no reason to take on Oladipo's salary for the marginal extra utility. They'll have their pick of guards in the draft and no reason to accelerate the timetable, unless Colangelo is impatient. And Oladipo's better talent-wise, but they already have a lot of guys who aren't awesome shooters. Oladipo's a sidegrade for the roster as-is.

I get your point about Oladipo being a good piece for them, but if we trade for Covington all we're doing is kicking the salary problem a year down the road, and then we have LESS playmaking. If it were as a part of something else, sure. But Oladipo's one of the few pieces we have that has good value, and if you trade for Covington your new starting lineup is probably Russ/Robes/Covington/Gibson(Sabonis?)/Adams. Which makes an already bad playmaking issue worse. You'd have to add playmaking at either SG or PF to make the lineup work.

Don't get me wrong. If it's as part of a move for something else, great. Covington and Holmes help a lot and make Roberson and Kanter expendable. But Philly has to accept, which I don't know if they would, and OKC has to have something lined up for a good 2 or 4.

That's understandable. I'm certainly aware that if that is our only move this offseason, then we will be worse off in the short term AND long term.

Honestly, as an armchair GM, I'm thinking about this with the main goal in mind that we go after a high profile playmaker. Also, before even considering this type of trade, I would try to trade Kanter to a **** team that has an overload in it's backcourt positions and could use a 20 & 10 center to provide even limited production.

I could see Kanter going to Phoenix for Brandon Knight, or to SAC for a pair of shooting guards. I could also see the Lakers taking Kanter/Abrines for Clarkson/Young. This is just a perspective I think we should keep in mind. It's not perfect, but it's also not impossible, or improbable enough not to consider.

[ThunderBolt]

That's why I've suggested we offer our first round pick on draft night. If that's not enough, add in McDermott. Or consider lowering the restriction on the first traded for grant. Throw in the second that we got from Chicago. Find something that works.

Then we have Russ, Vic/Abrines, RoCo, Adams, Gibson. We could let Andre go. If Colangelo wants to be patient, we give him more youth. I hate to trade our pick but if we are trying to build around russ then I would rather have a 26 year that can contribute now.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Then we have Russ, Vic/Abrines, RoCo, Adams, Gibson. We could let Andre go. If Colangelo wants to be patient, we give him more youth. I hate to trade our pick but if we are trying to build around russ then I would rather have a 26 year that can contribute now.

The problem with adding veterans is the salary stops working after this year and that is assuming you can shed enough to make it work this year. The rookie gives you a cost controlled player. How are you going to keep Covington, Adams, Dipo, Russ, McDermott, etc.? You are looking at $90M in salary for '18-'19 with ONLY Russ, Dipo, Adams, Abrines, Sabonis and the rookie. That means the team is already right at the cap with just the minimum cap hold for the other spots.

Assuming Covington gets $18M/yr, which seems to be around the new normal for good 3&D guys, you are at $108M for 7 players with a tax line around $122M. That is assuming Kanter, Taj, Grant and Singler are gone. If you assume they paid Taj you can add another $10-12M to the salary and they are at the tax line for 8 players. You still have to sign McDermott or let them walk. I'm not counting Huestis as they could decline that team option and I'm assuming they let Semaj go who has a contract that is not guaranteed, although I could see keeping him since he is basically paid the same as a vet minimum contract would cost and they could still be high on his "potential" and "youth".

Russ/Semaj?
Dipo/Abrines
Covington/McDermott?
Sabonis/???
Adams/Dakari?

Is that better, worse or the same as what OKC has now? Is that a team you are wanting to see OKC in the tax for? Is that really building around Russ? What have you built? It looks like you just slapped a fresh coat of paint on a house that still has a cracked foundation, weak supports and is going to crumble at any minute.

[ThunderBolt]

Then we have Russ, Vic/Abrines, RoCo, Adams, Gibson. We could let Andre go. If Colangelo wants to be patient, we give him more youth. I hate to trade our pick but if we are trying to build around russ then I would rather have a 26 year that can contribute now.

The problem with adding veterans is the salary stops working after this year and that is assuming you can shed enough to make it work this year. The rookie gives you a cost controlled player. How are you going to keep Covington, Adams, Dipo, Russ, McDermott, etc.? You are looking at $90M in salary for '18-'19 with ONLY Russ, Dipo, Adams, Abrines, Sabonis and the rookie. That means the team is already right at the cap with just the minimum cap hold for the other spots.

Assuming Covington gets $18M/yr, which seems to be around the new normal for good 3&D guys, you are at $108M for 7 players with a tax line around $122M. That is assuming Kanter, Taj, Grant and Singler are gone. If you assume they paid Taj you can add another $10-12M to the salary and they are at the tax line for 8 players. You still have to sign McDermott or let them walk. I'm not counting Huestis as they could decline that team option and I'm assuming they let Semaj go who has a contract that is not guaranteed, although I could see keeping him since he is basically paid the same as a vet minimum contract would cost and they could still be high on his "potential" and "youth".

Russ/Semaj?
Dipo/Abrines
Covington/McDermott?
Sabonis/???
Adams/Dakari?

Is that better, worse or the same as what OKC has now? Is that a team you are wanting to see OKC in the tax for? Is that really building around Russ? What have you built? It looks like you just slapped a fresh coat of paint on a house that still has a cracked foundation, weak supports and is going to crumble at any minute.

To a degree, isn't that what every team faces? It's very hard to build a core group of guys and have them locked in for years to come with no salary issues. The starting five listed above would be a significant improvement, in my opinion. Obviously at some point you have to find contributors and bench players that are cheap. Perhaps that comes from a second round draft pick or other places. I think if you get a starting five with covington and victor that provides the spacing for Russ and Adams to work, it helps a ton.

Who knows what happens beyond that? Maybe Abrines develops enough that you can move victor. Maybe Dakari is a surprise and Adams can be moved. I don't have all the answers by any means. I do think improving the spacing in the starting 5 without compromising the defense would help a lot. I know it wouldn't beat the warriors, but it's possibly improvement.

You and I agree that it's in the best interest of the franchise to move Russ. Where we disagree is that I think you believe it will happen and I think it won't happen. So I'm just looking at what we could do to improve. I wouldn't hesitate to make a move that improves the team at the beginning of next year because I'm not sure what to do with the players at the end of the year. Even Boston, with all of their assets will eventually run out of assets and have to pay guys. If we got Covington, I don't have a clue what we would do with Grant, McDermott and Covington at the end of the year. I don't think every young asset we have will become a star and I don't think all of them will bust. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Dn4sty]

I think you have to keep building with the hope that a younger/different player emerges giving you the ability to trade Dipo.

I also don't think this team is super far away from competing against everyone minus GSW. Every game but game 1 was competitive against Houston.

This past season both Kanter and Dipo missed significant stretches. I don't think it's crazy to think that they would have been the 4 seed had Enes not smashed his hand on a chair.

I think a backup PG, another bench scorer (this could be the same person) and improvement from current roster makes this team much much better

[Pillendreher]

I think you have to keep building with the hope that a younger/different player emerges giving you the ability to trade Dipo.

I also don't think this team is super far away from competing against everyone minus GSW. Every game but game 1 was competitive against Houston.

This past season both Kanter and Dipo missed significant stretches. I don't think it's crazy to think that they would have been the 4 seed had Enes not smashed his hand on a chair.

I think a backup PG, another bench scorer (this could be the same person) and improvement from current roster makes this team much much better

We were the 2nd most healthy team in the league this season iirc.